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 Time Travel, True or False
Barnard
post Apr 7 2007, 10:15 PM
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It's depicted in several movies. Terminator uses technology, The Butterfly effect uses a phychological element, and Superman circles the earth several times to turn back a few minutes to save Lois from an earthquake. Is time travel possible? Magic, technology, speed. What are your thoughts?


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Pandora
post Dec 1 2007, 02:45 AM
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Brian Greene in his book "Fabric of the Cosmos" had an interesting thought experiment about time and entropy, thermodynamics that is. The progression from order to disorder that is thermodynamic decay has been called "time's arrow" before, because we can sort the moments in time simply by looking at how high a level of entropy there is. He kind of disproved that though. I don't have the book with me, but here's a paraphrasing of the idea.

Thermodynamics states that there are many possible futures. We could all vaporize in a moment turning into pure quarks, or even vanish entirely, and each of those is one future. But most of the futures have the characteristics of which we're familiar with: increasing entropy, stuff falls down, planets orbit, hearts beat, etc. In fact, the amount of futures that match these characteristics is so vast that there is practically no chance that one of the scant oddball futures would ever occur. That's what we know so far, and that's what we use to tell which part of Hamlet is the beginning and the end, based on how many people are dead.

What happened a moment ago? You remember that, but your memory was a part of that moment. Perhaps your memory was false, and appeared spontaneously just an instant ago, and beforehand the past was different indeed. Maybe 20 milliseconds ago, the universe was nothing but empty space and we all just suddenly came into existence, memories and all, in one incredibly unlikely quantum fluctuation.

The problem with "time's arrow" is, there is no direction in thermodynamics. It's just applying statistics to everyday physics. It works backwards as well as forwards. The chance that the one single past that you remember is the real past is extremely unlikely. It's far more likely that the entire universe just appeared out of the quantum foam moments ago. You wouldn't be able to tell that of course, and the universe would proceed normally from here on. But there are many possible pasts that are far more likely than the one that you remember. And you know the most likely possible past?

It's the future.

Once you do the math, thermodynamics can predict the past macrostate that has the most microstates, and therefore is the most likely to have occured. That prediction is exactly the same as predicting the future, just with a negative time instead of a positive time. The most likely possible past is that we were in the future, proceeding backwards through time to this very moment, doing and thinking everything in reverse until we hit the present, after which we proceed normally back into the future! And every point in the future you consider this thought again, it's more likely that the switch you remember is false, and that the future you are at is now the pivot point.

So the way to put this in perspective is, the Big Bang was a highly unlikely cosmic event. I mean seriously. You got nothing, not even time, and then suddenly you've got enough energy to make all the stars and galaxies in an instant, compressed smaller than a golf ball? Yeah right! Like that's ever going to happen. That's why the "thermodynamic" past is more likely than the real one, because no matter how sensible the past you remember seems to be, the probability of the Big Bang happening is so small it invalidates all that sensibility. If we don't assume that a Big Bang happened, then we can show that the most likely past is a mirror image of the future. If we do assume that a Big Bang happened, then the past you remember is quite certainly the most likely one to have occurred.

Stuff like this makes me realize why time travel is such an absurd idea. We don't want to travel through time; we don't even know what travelling through time means! What we want is to reverse entropy, and all the stories about time travel involve travelling to a state where the universe has a much lower entropy, like before the dinosaurs went extinct. Is it time travel to go see the dinosaurs? I can't say for sure. But I can say it is a reversal of entropy to be able to walk up to something that used to be millions years dead, and now is alive and looking at you hungrily, uh oh...


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Barnard   Time Travel   Apr 7 2007, 10:15 PM
esoterica   twice i have been through the physical gates betwe...   Apr 8 2007, 10:05 AM
Thorn   twice i have been through the physical gates betwe...   Apr 9 2007, 01:16 AM
Helmut   Lots of practice and some of the Universal Secre...   May 7 2007, 05:50 PM
The White Chaos   [font=Arial][color=#FF0000]Lots of practice and so...   Jun 6 2007, 01:48 PM
Acid09   I think time travel depends on how one approaches....   May 30 2007, 06:10 PM
Gregathol   If time travel were possible at this moment in tim...   Jun 27 2007, 03:32 PM
Xenomancer   Time travel has been said to be mathematically pos...   Jun 29 2007, 06:37 PM
magus2500x   ok, first post, i am extremely new to sorcery, so ...   Jul 12 2007, 01:32 PM
Acid09   The problem with that is that the mind is stuck in...   Jul 23 2007, 03:51 PM
magus2500x   I understand your point, detaching or "breaki...   Jul 23 2007, 11:37 PM
Acid09   One who could time travel through their own body i...   Jul 26 2007, 06:03 PM
magus2500x   I agree, it would be much trouble to have unlimite...   Jul 28 2007, 11:05 PM
telempath   I[font=Courier New] Magic, technology, speed. What...   Nov 23 2007, 12:17 AM
al_zaine   I agree, it would be much trouble to have unlimite...   Nov 23 2007, 07:37 PM
magus2500x   Oh, P.S. The quotes above gave me jokes. The first...   Nov 27 2007, 09:49 PM
al_zaine   I agree with what you're saying. I got caught ...   Nov 28 2007, 07:59 PM
magus2500x   I do agree that it could be benefitial, though I d...   Nov 30 2007, 07:35 AM
Adept   Time travel is possible, but seldom practical. You...   Jan 2 2008, 03:06 AM
jlx   Oh how sweet for all of you to remind me on this s...   Jan 2 2008, 09:20 PM
VitalWinds   well.... i could rant on and on about my own theor...   Nov 24 2008, 06:48 PM
Jenfucius   I[font=Courier New]t's depicted in several mo...   Nov 24 2008, 07:27 PM
Scooby Doo   Our soul or consciousness or whatever you want to ...   Dec 2 2008, 12:45 PM
Asguard   Our soul or consciousness or whatever you want to...   Dec 11 2008, 06:02 PM
Praxis   The key point that almost everyone misses is: Th...   Dec 2 2008, 02:50 PM
Kirie   Well, I come from the same direction Pandora does ...   Dec 3 2008, 11:27 AM
Scooby Doo   Hello praxis, i don't agree with your post at ...   Dec 3 2008, 11:33 AM
Praxis   I dunno what you mean by "memory places...   Dec 3 2008, 02:48 PM
Asguard   I found this: THE EVIDENCE FOR TIME TRAVEL Rese...   Jan 6 2009, 06:33 PM
Asguard   Is it possible open or create some space/time vort...   Mar 25 2009, 01:20 PM
Barnard   Those are all quite fascinating theories, especial...   Jun 30 2009, 02:16 PM
Dancing Coyote   You guys are so high right now.   Jun 30 2009, 05:57 PM
Acid09   One theory is the idea of mini-black holes that ar...   Jun 30 2009, 10:15 PM
Asguard   I read theory about akashic records. Actually it...   Jul 1 2009, 12:22 AM
Barnard   One theory is the idea of mini-black holes that a...   Jul 1 2009, 10:43 AM
Asguard   What if you evoke some entity and ask him how to c...   Jul 11 2009, 03:58 PM
Zenofied   What if you evoke some entity and ask him how to ...   Jul 24 2009, 03:23 PM
Zenofied   In most matters of life there stand a platform whi...   Jul 24 2009, 03:36 PM
Shimi   It's depicted in several movies. Terminator u...   Mar 1 2010, 03:04 PM

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