The Matter Of Prayer, How, Why, When, to what Degree? Options

So, lately I have been changing the way that I pray, according to the program, which I've been rather verbose about lately, namely Lisiewski books and attendant material. This has given me some difficulty, because I am not used to praying as he suggests - particularly speaking, out-loud. My periods of prayer in the past have been more contemplative, considering and turning my attention to the qualities of the Divine, seeking out in my own experience and sensibility, the expressions of the Divine around me, and expressing in a purely emotional manner my feelings for that Divinity.

When I perform various ritual prayers, either written by myself or drawn from the Psalms, Dr. Dee's prayers, Thelemic orations, etc., I don't feel any kind of exaltation during the prayer itself - with very few exceptions. It makes me wonder, am I praying wrong, or am I just used to praying a different way. Moreover, is my previous method of prayer - this somewhat direct internalized approach - somehow less effective, or effective in a different way?

Now, I have developed a strong connection to my experience of God through my own version of prayer. I want to try and develope this other practice because I want to know if there is a difference experientially. For those that have been praying this way for a long time, is it something that developed for you after a while? What does it mean to 'enflame thyself with prayer'? It is experientially different than the feelings and experience I have when praying 'directly' as I am used to? (more a question for myself there). In these spoken prayers, I'm seeing examples that involve asking for wisdom, forgiveness, guidance, etc. In my own version, I'm used to simply focusing on the immense presence, power, and glory of the Divine experience and expression, rather than asking for anything. Thus far, those things seem to deliver themselves as I need them - even to the point that by the time I got frustrated with my current level of magical development, I was introduced to Lisiewski's work, which has helped me progress. Other examples are scattered throughout my life. Not that I think it's wrong to ask the Divine for such things, but this sudden focus on doing that as a regular practice is kind of putting me off on some level.

Any suggestions, thoughts, or experiences to share with prayer in general, regardless of tradition, and how one involves themselves in it? In addition to the questions given above, for consideration and discussion?

peace

Well in my experience there are three types of prayer. But they all revolve around the rather hideous phrase, praying from the heart or as the occult says enflaming thyself.

The first is the set written prayer as found in the grimoric and catholic tradition. Ones you memorize and repeat so often that you don't even think of the words, they just spill out of your mouth. During these types I find myself staring out at the wonder of nature and my surroundings and finding great beauty and harmony welling up within my chest and body as my mind and mouth goes through its routine.

The second type is the protestant type or the type you use when you are feeling low, the spur of the moment, deeply intent type. These generally arise from great need or crisis, your eyes are closed and you are intent upon your actions and after a few moments you can feel the connection and welling up from within.

The last type usually follows the first two, the completely silent and wordless prayer. Not a meditative or contemplative action but rather just a connection to the divine with no words at all. Sense of peace and connection found in certainty.

All these have the common thread of a sense of wonderment and connection welling up from within, generally localized to the chest region. Not sure how better to explain it than that.

Vagrant Dreamer:

"Enflaming yourself" in prayer always occurs naturally as I am sure you may be aware by now. It's not like the New Agers who whip themselves up a storm and turn blue in the face while trying to recite "The Bornless Ritual" and expect something to "happen"--well I've got news, it will not, or it will all backfire and cause slingshot effects of such proportions you won't know how to handle it. It is a process that takes time, and if you are following my advice with the Dee prayers in regards to the Aspersions (my instructions are on my thread concerning this Ritual in the Ceremonial Magic area of this forum), I guarantee you something WILL happen in your growth. Though Old System Magic is an incremental process, there will ALWAYS be IMMEDIATE results. How can there not? One is adhering to the rules and coming closer and closer to Divinity, which is, as I believe Dr. John Dee once wrote, "is nearer than your hand and closer than your breath." Now stop. Ponder this line. It should literally evoke tears because it is so overwhelming a thought. It is this that we are after and prayer will bring about what I like to call a Divine intimacy in ways that no New Ager and their methods will be able to bring about. The Psalms, in time, should literally throw you into ecstasy...but again...this is all in time. For now, continue with the Aspersions (as all practitioners of the Science and Magic of Art, in my opinion should be doing) and everything will fall into place like you have never seen it before.

Fio Praeter Humanus:

It is good you are making these observations. They are true and it seems like you are making wonderful progress in prayer as ANYONE and I repeat ANYONE in Magic should be doing.

Most Sincerely,

Mr. Curi

This post has been edited by Mr. Curi: Mar 12 2008, 11:20 AM

Thank you for all of your responses, I think I have some idea of where I should be focused at least for now. This is one of the few areas of this new (to me) direction in practice that has just kind of been a stumbling block for me, and my first instinct was to rationalize it away. While I don't care to be specific about such personal things, my experience with divinity through meditation - though I currently have no basis of comparison - has been profound in the past, for me, and has somewhat been rooted in the non-theistic (in the religious sense) ineffable, view of the Divine Source, which I hardly like referring to as God because that's a bit too much like defining it. My meditation practice arises from the traditions of Yoga and Zen buddhism.

So, needless to say I feel awkward vocalizing prayers at all at this particular moment, although it has become more comfortable since I started doing so regularly. The closest I've gone to doing so has been something along the lines of affirmations using yoga nidra. At the point that you're stating them, you can't usually even tell if you're speaking out loud or not.

I suppose then I'll just keep at it and see where it goes. It certainly at least keeps my mind rather more focused on the presence and movement of the Divine in my life and in the world, what with the quarterly adorations, and in opening and closing the day with prayer, along with the aspersions and attendant prayers with them. It adds up to some kind of prayer every few hours or so.

Thanks everyone.

peace