Use Of Drugs For Magickal Purposes, questions Options

What are your opinions on it? Does the drug induced state help/hinder your grasp on magick, or both? I've thought about if it would alter your ability to grasp energy, yet at the same time, could it help you become more aware of the surroundings, or your self-conscious? So what are the opinions, or facts on this subject?

Probably the worst drugs available these days are the legal ones advertised in magazines, TV, and other mass-media productions. These mood-altering drugs have reduced physicians to the level of drug-pushers in many cases, and I estimate the negative influence of this 100-billion-dollar business at far greater than those of pot or any "street" drug. I have personally witnessed far more trouble caused in people's lives from legal prescription drugs used as directed than from any other substance barring alcohol.

What gets to me are all those "male enhancement" pills and creams that are not even FDA regulated. The Canadian version of the FDA recently banned one of these so called "enhancement" drugs because it contained a chemical that had a lot of adverse side affects. I think it was called euphoria or something I don't even remember. But what stuck out in my mind was the fact that the Canadians were able and willing to ban a potentially dangerous product, yet our own FDA has yet to follow suit. Apparently the FDA doesn't ban such products until they've been linked to being the direct cause of people dying.

Ummm... but about perscription drugs messing with people's lives more than the illegal stuff? Ever been in a crack house? I mean I see your point and I agree that perscription pills often cause more problems than they solve, but I have seen some dark places in my day. And don't get me wrong there are certainly a lot of addicts who are popping pills like oxycotin or xannax or name your poison. But if you go to any general rehab center, the majority of addicts there will addicted to either alcohol or street drugs. I do believe drugs like crack and heroin are far more dangerous than most perscription pills. Mainly because those and other drugs are often cut with something even more dangerous than the drugs themselves. None the less I've seen otherwise decent people turn into complete zombies (or worse) because they got hooked on meth or some other drug. And again there are certainly those who get addicted to legal or perscription drugs.

My particular peeve is hearing people talk about relaxant drugs taken for "anxiety." Stress is a natural and healthy reaction to danger! If you are sitting around one day and all of a sudden freak out for no apparent reason, that is an anxiety disorder; but if you are upset about expenses and social problems, your anxiety is a starting point for dealing with your troubles.

The problem is that most of the people who get psychotropic and anti-psychotic drugs get them from a regular doctor who is not a psychologists or a psychiatrist. And even then, some psychiatrist treat mild mood disorders by just handing out pills. I don't know if they still get kick backs for selling certain perscriptions but when I was younger doctors did get incentives for that. Part of why they do this is because its easier and less time consuming to write a perscription rather than make a person go through therapy and actually deal with what's eating them. And in institutions, people who are mentally ill are often times just warehoused and doped up to the eye balls until their brain shrinks to the point where they could no longer harm a fly, let alone ever live a completely independent life. - thats probably an over statement but its the impression I get.

But as a psychologist I can say that in the cases of severe mood disorders (anxiety, mania, depression, bi-polar disorder and their many other variations) that drugs can help. However treating any severe mental disorder consists of two parts; 1/3 drug therapy, 2/3 intensive personal therapy (congnitive, behavioral etc). And yet on the other hand poorer countries that do not have access to such drugs seem to deal with their mentally ill in ways that are effective without the drugs. In fact in some countries the rates of institutionalized schizophrenics is lower there than in America. This difference is attributed to how those poorer countries treat schizophrenics. In my opinion in the case of the mentally ill, drugs should only be used as a last resort.

I have read a significant amount of drug literature and consider myself very familiar with the effects of a wide variety of psychotropic drugs, some from personal experience. As for spirituality and drugs, I don't buy it. Life experience in the ordinary world makes us grow as people, and the diversity of modern life allows us to have a huge variety of experiences that Peruvian shamans simply cannot enjoy. We are able to participate in all sorts of interpersonal situations, achieve individual goals, and go all over the world if we wish.

Without being a Peruvian Shaman myself I would not be so quick to judge. I have no idea what they or some other tribal shaman has experienced through the use of mind altering drugs. I am certain though that they use such drugs in ways that are consistent with their religion and their spiritual beliefs. And I would never even attempt to deprive someone of their traditions. Nor would I believe myself better than them. That and some people even here in America are at a disadvantage to enjoy such goals and aspirations compared to other more fortunate folks.

To someone living their entire life in the confines of a tribe localized to 100 square miles of remote wilderness, the drug experience may be the only way to know something totally different. I have never known anyone who could truly attribute their maturity, spiritual outlook, or any other advanced insight or knowledge to something tied specifically to a drug experience. On the other hand, even a meager amount of life experience brings real and dramatic changes.

I don't think all shaman are as isolated from the world as you might think. While there are deffinately some "remote" shaman who really only do know that 100 square miles of wilderness, I'm sure there are others just as aware, if not more so, of the world around them as you or I. Again I wouldn't be so quick to judge. That is just me.

As said before, I have also never encountered someone who could realistically attribute magical success or failure to drugs. "If only I had been stoned!" is about the worst possible excuse for a failed magical action.

Thats like saying if only had one more lotto ticket I might have won. Of course nobody in the right mind is going to say "if only I had been stoned".

I suppose it really depends on what you want from magic. Strange visions? Cliche spiritual insights? A sense of personal growth measured only in terms of attitude and outlook? OK then maybe drugs will do it for you, but what is it worth to you?

If you dumb it down like that then you're right using drugs for magickal or spiritual gains doesn't seem to logical. But if you take away that stereotypical attitude that seeing drugs only negative then who are you to judge? If you've never had any successful or even unsuccessful experiences with drugs and magick - maybe because you never tried, then how can you say that drugs cannot aid a person in achieving magick oriented goals? If drugs did not work at all, ever in history, for anybody - then why have people from just about ever major culture around the world used drugs for thousands of years?

There are a thousand ways to attack the idea of using drugs for magic, and I'm sur emost people here can point out specific instances where drug use went horribly wrong for magicians and others too. Where are the specific instances when drugs were really useful to you (any of you) as part of magic, and more importantly what did that magic do for you?

I'm sure in regards towards drugs and magick that many of those who took on a serious attitude and followed traditional guidlines would report success. Sometimes the drug experience itself is not the end result. Sometimes its what someone learns or experiences afterwards that is the real deal.

Bottom line is yes some immature teen sitting in his basement with a tina of meth tweaking his brains out, probably is not going to have a productive experience - not that they won't but most likely they will not. On the other hand if someone uses responsibility, knowledge and guidance then drugs are no more or less of a tool in magick than an athame. That said some tools work better for some than they do for others.