Demons: Beneficial Or Not?, The thread to end all disputes Options

HOLD UP

acid 09
err... wait.... SUCCUBUS! RUN!!!!

it could very well be Succubus.
If this the case (and not a sexual oriented dream) stay away from it. Its like a venus fly trap waiting for its next victom.

"It's a good thing!"
"It's a bad thing!"
"It's a lover!"
"It's a parasite!"
"It's a succubus!"

You know what? It these petty arguments that just piss me off.
(IMG:http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/3c/RAAAAGE.png)

"FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-"

The Synopsis:
Do Demons hate us, or love us? (or are they neutral?)

The traditionalists say that demons are malefactors, but the followers of the left-hand path say that they are benefactors. The neutralists say that they are akin to the handling of Nuclear energy: Beneficient if the science is known.

Argument - Nature of the Beast:
But lately, it always seems to boil down to the argument as to whether Demons are inherently benevolent, or inherently malevolent, or for all we know, they have their own agenda and are as whimsical as we humans if not more.

-Ceremonial Argument
Malevolent. These are beings that represent forces of the mundane, material, and the forces of addiction. They thrive off of suffering, and do not care about those who they make suffer for their own gain. They represent the forces of sin (however this is defined), and stand against the grand-ultimate "I AM". They stand for illusions, trickery, and lies.

They never give you what you want, and always leave you wanting more, never giving full-on contentment.

-LHP Argument
Benevolent. These are beings that were demonized by our petty mortal perceptions. From our experiences, they help us get what we want to be happy.

We get power, they get respect. It's give and take, done in a manner which is befitting of human beings, given that this is the best we can do.

Argument - Interaction:
Then, it moves onto the subject on how to encounter one of these beings in the proper manner. "

-Ceremonial argument
Set up by ceremonial magicians, the traditionalists say, "You have to use coercion because of all they know."

Rebuttal: That is the same argument used by white supremacists about blacks, saying, "You must treat them harshly and like animals because primitive impulses and crime is all they know."

Counter-rebuttal: But history shows that Demons have such behaviors, agendas, and motives

Retro-counter-rebuttal: How do you know that it is Demons that have such behaviors and not other entities that wish to frame others? The idea and urge to frame another for your actions as a scapegoat is the true evil act. What's more, you arbitrarily label any malificent spirit as "Demon," when in the LHP experience, "Demons" work for the benefit of humankind when asked.

What's more, who wouldn't act that way if treated with constant coercion?

-LHP Argument
Treat them with respect, and you will be treated as such back. Reciprocation is big, because many times, Demons (or preferred, Daemons) help in matters of retribution and vindication. On this basis, it is fair to say, that respect comes as the prime factor.

All this is based on a pact of trust established, noted, and expressed through the magicians willful conjuration of the spirit in question. If the magician did not respect this entity, why bother calling at all? On top of that, if the magician was not respectable, what entity of power, mortal or otherwise, would even obey or honor a call like that to such a person?

Rebuttal: Never go in without protection, lest you choose to make a decision stupidly.

Counter-Rebuttal: Honesty, Trust, and Respect is what protects the integrity of the parties involved, not some ordered, mechanical procedure to invoke some authority from a celestial bureaucracy.

Retro-counter-rebuttal: It is the authority of this system, by invoking the name of the grand-ultimate, the "I AM," that all things are compelled to obey. This gives the magician full discretion to use his power, and the choice to use it responsibly.


Added note: An interesting observation I have seen about these arguments, is how close they resemble the egregores of "Conservatives" vs "Liberals" on our Earth.

The Ceremonialist ideal seems to resemble the "Conservatives" more in the attitudes, based on the shared priorities of Defense, Authority, Order, and Gain.

The LHP ideal seems to resemble more "Liberal" ideals, such as personal freedom unfettered by the interference of others and their preferences, trust in the powers that they interact with for help on the basis that things are meant to work naturally for a common beneficience, and complete acceptance and adherence to the self as a means for the pursuit of happiness.

"Conservatives" seem to have a history of coersion in their methods for their gain, while "Liberals" tend to care more for the other party in question, in hopes that the reciprocation may be fair, or even greater, based on favorable standings.

CONCLUSION:

"Shadow vs Vorlon argument"

Sometimes it is sensible to destroy or overthrow a system that does not work, and there are times where it is necessary to follow the rules precisely, both for the betterment of ourselves, those around us, and our world as a whole.

Neither are correct or wrong: They both simply -are-, and have different agendas. This must be acknowledged.

As above, so below: We have corrupt people and we have just people on both sides of the spectrum. There are benevolent and malevolent spirits on both sides of the spectrum.

It seems to be more or less about preference and affinity towards the more "Orthodox" energies of the universe or, in contrast, the "Unorthodox."

With all these dualities and dialectics, I am very tempted to say "screw it" and go Taoist.
------

Now, the real question is, what ARE their agendas, anyway?

Without bias, without prejudgments, without taking fear, hatred, or other emotions into play, using only our higher human reasoning of which we as human beings can pride ourselves on, despite it's limited function, use, and ability, make some inferences as to the Agendas of the following classifications of spirits:

-Judeo-christian God and his angels
-Daemons of the Goetia
-The various pantheons, subdivided by their cultures
-Chthonic Proto-titans and demiurgic forces

I wish to know this, so that I can make the voluntary, willful, fully-informed choice to go with, align with, and work with whomever I please.

The stage is set. The arguments and observations layed down.

(IMG:http://www.gameaxis.com/img/blog/65/Image/fight.JPG)

Ahhh.....
I hope that this topic gets the attention it deserves!

That being said...
I wish to throw some thoughts into the broth.
Have you ever drawn parallels between magic and mankinds politics, both socio-economic or theurgical?
Perhaps we, as human beings, are responsible for EVERYTHING religous and magical! We created the gods, etc.
Something to truly ponder.
When dealing with ANY 'outside' entity it would be prudent to strip away everything human about it. What is left will help illustrate your path to interaction. As humans, we love mirrors and, from personal experience, love to hear ourselves talk/think. LOL!
I've come to believe that most of the entity work that occurs is actually the practioner communicating with themselves through a variety of media and filters. I do believe that there are non-human entities as well...but only a small fraction of humans are capable of interaction with these entities or...notice that they are interacting at any given time/place. It always bothered me to find hierarchal lists of demons mirroring the local politics at that time. Given also the magical idea that our astral and ethereal planes mimick the physical and that thoughtforms that are fed often enough form strong energy pools be they of traditional or newer origin. The goddess Astarte is one thing and the demon Astaroth is another...but they share a similar origin! Both have decidedly different vibration rates/currents. And there is a differencee...not this newage idea of everything being comfortably homogenous! All gods are not the same...giving them the attribute of sex/dualism supports this! I digress...


More things to think on.
En Garde!
Be well! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)