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 Women and Men, Their Roles in Magic
bym
post Nov 7 2009, 09:15 AM
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Gone But Not Forgotten
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Greetings! (PS the title may be too limiting...go nuts!)
This was a bud starting to form in the Abramelin thread.
It was stated that women should be excluded from the Abramelin working.
It was remarked upon about that this was a prevalent attitude in Western esoteric traditions.
I maintain (whether right or wrong) that this practice takes place all around the world and that Magic can be dictated by the sex of the user. Women and Men handle/channel energy differently....
So, what are your thoughts?
Is this merely an attitude foisted off on us by the patriarchal church? Or does it stem from something alittle more basic?
Do tell us your opinions, theories or thoughts about this! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


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Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

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Darkmage
post Nov 7 2009, 11:17 PM
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I haven't found any restrictions on dealing with spirits, etc. I avoid magic at That Time of the Month, but pain is a good barrier to concentration, so that's nothing major there. *shrug*

I think a lot of this attitude comes from Father Church. There was serious debate up until about the 10th century or so whether or not women even had souls!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/badmood.gif) Fortunately that was resolved as yes, we do. *sigh* But women are still barred from the priesthood in the Catholic Church despite being able to be clergy in the Protestant denominations, so some of this bias is still there.

I think the other half of it comes from women's duties up until modern times. Women were trapped in a pregnancy/birth/nursing/child care cycle until the advent of modern birth control. If you were one of those women lucky enough to not be able to have kids, then you also ran into legal problems as there was no one to inherit your property when you died. If you're popping out a kid every other year and raising a litter of others, only one or two of which would survive to adulthood in those days, you had no time to study magic, religion, or indeed much of anything else. Given that the life expectancy back then was only about 35, there wasn't much time to do much of anything except grow food and raise kids.

Things have changed radically in the last century and a lot of the old restrictions and taboos turned out to be nothing at all. Society has changed but the old texts date from a time when the way of life we have now would not only be utterly alien, but unimaginable given the tools they had then. So I wouldn't take the restrictions too seriously. The worst that can happen is nothing--maybe the system in question won't work for you, but then again, this forum is littered with '$magicsystem failed, should I find another' posts. People should keep trying--after all, what is magic about but pushing boundaries back and seeing what is *really* hidden in those dark corners?


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As the water grinds the stone,
We rise and fall
As our ashes turn to dust,
We shine like stars...
--Covenant, "Bullet"

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bym   Women and Men   Nov 7 2009, 09:15 AM
Kath   firstly, I wasn't offended at all bym :) sorry...   Nov 8 2009, 11:24 AM
bym   I disagree. Men and women do think differently o...   Nov 9 2009, 02:15 PM
Aphrodite   I basically dont go on my period so I guess I dont...   Nov 9 2009, 07:52 PM
Acid09   Well from my back ground in psychology I know that...   Nov 9 2009, 09:43 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   Disclaimer: The following sounds more biased I thi...   Nov 9 2009, 11:18 PM
Mchawi   Wow... since when did a sacred magick thread blow ...   Nov 14 2009, 10:05 PM
Aphrodite   I dont think men and women think differently (that...   Nov 10 2009, 01:07 AM
Vagrant Dreamer   I dont think men and women think differently (tha...   Nov 10 2009, 09:51 AM
Kath   sweeping generalizations are almost always wrong, ...   Nov 10 2009, 02:38 AM
esoterica   there is a conspiracy theory that some woman of po...   Nov 10 2009, 10:31 AM
Kath   this is an issue of dogma clashing with reality. ...   Nov 10 2009, 01:18 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   this is an issue of dogma clashing with reality. ...   Nov 10 2009, 08:24 PM
bym   Greetings! Yes....I suppose that I could have ...   Nov 10 2009, 02:14 PM
Darkmage   Saying that men and women handle energy differentl...   Nov 10 2009, 08:05 PM
Aphrodite   Here's just one of many studies about how man...   Nov 10 2009, 09:46 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   How do scientist know for sure that I think more ...   Nov 10 2009, 11:32 PM
bym   It appears that this topic is too inflamatory to e...   Nov 10 2009, 11:28 PM
Darkmage   Let's hear about why men were considered to be...   Nov 10 2009, 11:56 PM
Goibniu   I have to agree that men and women process energy ...   Nov 10 2009, 11:58 PM
Aphrodite   I haven't much other comment because I am no...   Nov 11 2009, 01:52 AM
Darkmage   Unless the women is a virgin. The whole “women ...   Nov 11 2009, 02:32 AM
Vagrant Dreamer   That's an interesting point. At that time, eve...   Nov 11 2009, 07:29 AM
Darkmage   That's an interesting point. At that time, ev...   Nov 11 2009, 08:28 AM
Bb3   Let me go ahead and say I've got absolutely no...   Nov 14 2009, 06:45 AM
Kath   Let me go ahead and say I've got absolutely n...   Nov 14 2009, 03:13 PM
bym   Greetings! Just a quiet reiteration upon the o...   Nov 14 2009, 11:37 PM
The_Seeker   I think the statement that men and women think or ...   Nov 15 2009, 05:09 PM
Goibniu   Some of us can 'read' energy as it flows t...   Nov 15 2009, 09:20 PM
The_Seeker   Some of us can 'read' energy as it flows ...   Nov 16 2009, 11:41 AM
Goibniu   In Gardenerian Wicca, only women are allowed to do...   Nov 17 2009, 12:18 AM
Vagrant Dreamer   In Gardenerian Wicca, only women are allowed to d...   Nov 17 2009, 03:49 PM
Goibniu   Yeah, what he said. lol   Nov 17 2009, 07:00 PM
Mchawi   The discussion has become too broad... if you excu...   Nov 18 2009, 09:57 AM
Mchawi   ... ok, didn't have time to say much back ther...   Nov 18 2009, 05:50 PM
Kath   well *I* agree with ya Mchawi :)   Nov 19 2009, 06:17 AM
Aphrodite   I also agree with Mchawi! :Laie_58:   Nov 19 2009, 02:13 PM
Darkmage   Amen Mchawi. :thumbsup:   Nov 19 2009, 02:43 PM
bym   Yes....what your point was/is is not the reason wh...   Nov 19 2009, 03:40 PM
Aphrodite   I don’t see why we can’t talk about it, anyone wit...   Nov 19 2009, 05:55 PM
Goibniu   It is beginning to become a "he said", ...   Nov 19 2009, 09:32 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   I've had many similar experiences to Goibniu, ...   Nov 19 2009, 10:21 PM
Aphrodite   I think the issue here is how we view energy. Ther...   Nov 20 2009, 01:35 AM
bym   YES! This addresses the discussion Aphrodite...   Nov 20 2009, 08:05 AM
Darkmage   BYM--in those days, living to your age would have ...   Nov 20 2009, 10:05 AM
Kath   much of this debate is caused by one side thinking...   Nov 20 2009, 02:45 PM
Darkmage   Do you, personally, feel that the restrictions out...   Nov 20 2009, 05:53 PM
bym   This is what I get for voicing my opinion about ...   Nov 20 2009, 05:19 PM
Kath   This is what I get for voicing my opinion about N...   Nov 21 2009, 02:46 AM
Mchawi   Apologies if anyone assumed I was talking about ne...   Nov 21 2009, 07:49 PM
Vilhjalmr   Let me put it this way, you could put me in a roo...   Nov 24 2009, 09:42 PM
bym   Ah yes.....the grand occult equalizer! How pat...   Nov 25 2009, 09:06 AM
Vilhjalmr   Ah yes.....the grand occult equalizer! How pa...   Nov 25 2009, 12:57 PM
bym   The Randi challenge is based upon reproduceable sc...   Nov 25 2009, 04:35 PM
Vilhjalmr   The Randi challenge is based upon reproduceable s...   Nov 25 2009, 11:00 PM

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