Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 Women and Men, Their Roles in Magic
bym
post Nov 7 2009, 09:15 AM
Post #1


Gone But Not Forgotten
Group Icon
Posts: 1,244
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
From: New London, Connecticut, USA
Reputation: 9 pts




Greetings! (PS the title may be too limiting...go nuts!)
This was a bud starting to form in the Abramelin thread.
It was stated that women should be excluded from the Abramelin working.
It was remarked upon about that this was a prevalent attitude in Western esoteric traditions.
I maintain (whether right or wrong) that this practice takes place all around the world and that Magic can be dictated by the sex of the user. Women and Men handle/channel energy differently....
So, what are your thoughts?
Is this merely an attitude foisted off on us by the patriarchal church? Or does it stem from something alittle more basic?
Do tell us your opinions, theories or thoughts about this! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


--------------------
Rest in Peace Bym.
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7662

~The Sacred Magick Management

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post


 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Replies
Kath
post Nov 21 2009, 02:46 AM
Post #2


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 220
Age: N/A
Gender: Female
Reputation: 8 pts




QUOTE(bym @ Nov 20 2009, 05:19 PM) *

This is what I get for voicing my opinion about Newage...which was directed towards the idea of occult paradigms being 'universal'. You seem to want to disagree on the basis that I'm labelling or trying to pigeon hole you. I'm not. I have reiterated ad nauseum the focus of this discussion yet somehow it keeps being wrenched around to focus on peoples reasons to disagree with previous off-track commentary. It is not about anybody on this Forum! I'm happy for our diversity but this is starting to beat a dead horse. Let's concentrate, rather, on why the ancient Jews/Xtians stipulated what they did or why they did it instead of soapboxing about our anomalies and why these leave us unique and not part of the scenario of the Abramelin working. Copuld we try to do this? I have a great respect to the trials and solutions that each one of us has had in magic. If you find yourself confined in a box then I suggest that you get out of it for I have not had any part of putting you in one! I have an axe to grind about 'Newage' and its homogenizations but that isn't aimed at YOU.


I am (yet again) unaware of my being 'offended', why do people keep assuming that I am?

frankly I agree that the modern trend is towards paradigm merger, in which something of the original paradigms is always lost. I am ambivalent about that trend. for everything lost there are new things gained as well. But overall I think I dislike the lack of diversity of thought which such a trend creates. Anyway, several people mentioned new agers blending everything together and erasing 'difference'. I simply pulled your name out of a hat as an example of that sentiment, to respond to it.

It would be hard, I think, in this thread, to say that newagers erroneously blend everything together and act like 'its all the same'... without in some way implying that those who disagree with you in this thread have fallen victim to that way of thinking. I mean, why else bring it up? how does it relate to the thread except as a detracting point against those who disagree with your view, and feel that strict gender stereotypes in magical practice are invalid. I don't see how that could *not* be meant to be directed at the opposing viewpoint in this thread. I just responded to it, and without any animosity I might add. And I don't think your sentiment about newage tendencies is offensive at all. It's an interesting point that needed to be brought up in order to debate this issue exhaustively.

also, I feel that much of my previous post is very legitimately on the thread's topic (unlike this post). Personally I felt it 'all' was or i wouldn't have posted it. But I'm trying to see why you would think otherwise, and I'm really genuinely not getting it. People who disagree will often do so based on different bodies of evidence, that means people with differing viewpoints will likely bring 'other' ideas & points to the table which are different from your own pool of evidence which supports your own rationale. It would be very easy and natural to feel that the reasoning & evidence behind the thinking of someone who disagrees with you are less relevant than one's own reasonings and evidence, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are.

I am arguing, that the entire notion of "strict" black&white gender role stereotyping is archaic and dogmatic. In magick or in anything else. I mean heck, a muslim would argue that a woman couldn't do such a ritual because her 'energy' has the resonance of "property", and property can't be enlightened. It's all pretty arbitrary in the end. Anyway, my view seems 'on topic' to me. If not, then I really am confused about the purpose of this thread.

When you say "This is what I get for..." what do you mean? I genuinely don't see what it is about my post which has upset you, particularly in the quoted excerpt. I really don't see what it is about my post which would make you feel that you've incurred some sort of ire... in a word, wtf dude?

I simply disagree with you, vagrant, and a few others.
That doesn't make mean I'm angry, or biased, or influenced by erroneous modern trends, or thinking in a box, or that I have issues, or that I'm attacking anyone, or making anything personal. It also doesn't mean that I'm automatically wrong. This is honestly the very first post in this thread (contrary to popular belief) where I've responded with some degree of emotional duress. And that emotion is primarily disappointment, with a soft seasoning of annoyance. I had hoped my post would be more constructive than it seems to be, and I am gradually growing annoyed at various presumptions being made about my feelings, thinking, motivations, etc.

I just disagree, that's all, nothing else, fin.

This post has been edited by Kath: Nov 21 2009, 03:13 AM


--------------------
‘Εκατερινη
IPB Image
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Audaces fortuna iuvat

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Mchawi
post Nov 21 2009, 07:49 PM
Post #3


Zelator
Group Icon
Posts: 398
Age: N/A
Gender: Male
Reputation: 3 pts





Apologies if anyone assumed I was talking about newage theory, last time I checked newagers have little do with actual practice and more to do with indigo children and wire pyramids. Unless people consider the method behind western schools such as the G.D to be new age? Its that building of correspondance I was on about not the fluffy hippie type.

Not much else to say really, everyones energy patterns are diffrent, 'as above so below' just as there are no distinctions up there there aren't any down here the human race is too diverse to stamp left or right, over time societies change and so do people but (as said) we still have the same systems and symbols because they are impervious to change, the only constant in the universe, why? Because they themselves are universal... when I say that I'm talking about law in the way of math and physics... occultism is the study of divine law and as such dosent discriminate if it did time would have its way change would set in and those systems and symbols would be rendered obsolete... as is being semi proven here reading from a book written in a time of discrimination society has changed and now people are questioning the text itself because its statements dont add up. How can a holy man know prejudice? In a time when women rule the world it will probably be used to kindle fires redemption for its being out of sync with the stars .lol.

Only truth stands the test of time.

Intresting discussion, thanks.

.M.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post


Posts in this topic
bym   Women and Men   Nov 7 2009, 09:15 AM
Darkmage   I haven't found any restrictions on dealing wi...   Nov 7 2009, 11:17 PM
Kath   firstly, I wasn't offended at all bym :) sorry...   Nov 8 2009, 11:24 AM
bym   I disagree. Men and women do think differently o...   Nov 9 2009, 02:15 PM
Aphrodite   I basically dont go on my period so I guess I dont...   Nov 9 2009, 07:52 PM
Acid09   Well from my back ground in psychology I know that...   Nov 9 2009, 09:43 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   Disclaimer: The following sounds more biased I thi...   Nov 9 2009, 11:18 PM
Mchawi   Wow... since when did a sacred magick thread blow ...   Nov 14 2009, 10:05 PM
Aphrodite   I dont think men and women think differently (that...   Nov 10 2009, 01:07 AM
Vagrant Dreamer   I dont think men and women think differently (tha...   Nov 10 2009, 09:51 AM
Kath   sweeping generalizations are almost always wrong, ...   Nov 10 2009, 02:38 AM
esoterica   there is a conspiracy theory that some woman of po...   Nov 10 2009, 10:31 AM
Kath   this is an issue of dogma clashing with reality. ...   Nov 10 2009, 01:18 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   this is an issue of dogma clashing with reality. ...   Nov 10 2009, 08:24 PM
bym   Greetings! Yes....I suppose that I could have ...   Nov 10 2009, 02:14 PM
Darkmage   Saying that men and women handle energy differentl...   Nov 10 2009, 08:05 PM
Aphrodite   Here's just one of many studies about how man...   Nov 10 2009, 09:46 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   How do scientist know for sure that I think more ...   Nov 10 2009, 11:32 PM
bym   It appears that this topic is too inflamatory to e...   Nov 10 2009, 11:28 PM
Darkmage   Let's hear about why men were considered to be...   Nov 10 2009, 11:56 PM
Goibniu   I have to agree that men and women process energy ...   Nov 10 2009, 11:58 PM
Aphrodite   I haven't much other comment because I am no...   Nov 11 2009, 01:52 AM
Darkmage   Unless the women is a virgin. The whole “women ...   Nov 11 2009, 02:32 AM
Vagrant Dreamer   That's an interesting point. At that time, eve...   Nov 11 2009, 07:29 AM
Darkmage   That's an interesting point. At that time, ev...   Nov 11 2009, 08:28 AM
Bb3   Let me go ahead and say I've got absolutely no...   Nov 14 2009, 06:45 AM
Kath   Let me go ahead and say I've got absolutely n...   Nov 14 2009, 03:13 PM
bym   Greetings! Just a quiet reiteration upon the o...   Nov 14 2009, 11:37 PM
The_Seeker   I think the statement that men and women think or ...   Nov 15 2009, 05:09 PM
Goibniu   Some of us can 'read' energy as it flows t...   Nov 15 2009, 09:20 PM
The_Seeker   Some of us can 'read' energy as it flows ...   Nov 16 2009, 11:41 AM
Goibniu   In Gardenerian Wicca, only women are allowed to do...   Nov 17 2009, 12:18 AM
Vagrant Dreamer   In Gardenerian Wicca, only women are allowed to d...   Nov 17 2009, 03:49 PM
Goibniu   Yeah, what he said. lol   Nov 17 2009, 07:00 PM
Mchawi   The discussion has become too broad... if you excu...   Nov 18 2009, 09:57 AM
Mchawi   ... ok, didn't have time to say much back ther...   Nov 18 2009, 05:50 PM
Kath   well *I* agree with ya Mchawi :)   Nov 19 2009, 06:17 AM
Aphrodite   I also agree with Mchawi! :Laie_58:   Nov 19 2009, 02:13 PM
Darkmage   Amen Mchawi. :thumbsup:   Nov 19 2009, 02:43 PM
bym   Yes....what your point was/is is not the reason wh...   Nov 19 2009, 03:40 PM
Aphrodite   I don’t see why we can’t talk about it, anyone wit...   Nov 19 2009, 05:55 PM
Goibniu   It is beginning to become a "he said", ...   Nov 19 2009, 09:32 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   I've had many similar experiences to Goibniu, ...   Nov 19 2009, 10:21 PM
Aphrodite   I think the issue here is how we view energy. Ther...   Nov 20 2009, 01:35 AM
bym   YES! This addresses the discussion Aphrodite...   Nov 20 2009, 08:05 AM
Darkmage   BYM--in those days, living to your age would have ...   Nov 20 2009, 10:05 AM
Kath   much of this debate is caused by one side thinking...   Nov 20 2009, 02:45 PM
Darkmage   Do you, personally, feel that the restrictions out...   Nov 20 2009, 05:53 PM
bym   This is what I get for voicing my opinion about ...   Nov 20 2009, 05:19 PM
Vilhjalmr   Let me put it this way, you could put me in a roo...   Nov 24 2009, 09:42 PM
bym   Ah yes.....the grand occult equalizer! How pat...   Nov 25 2009, 09:06 AM
Vilhjalmr   Ah yes.....the grand occult equalizer! How pa...   Nov 25 2009, 12:57 PM
bym   The Randi challenge is based upon reproduceable sc...   Nov 25 2009, 04:35 PM
Vilhjalmr   The Randi challenge is based upon reproduceable s...   Nov 25 2009, 11:00 PM

Closed
Topic Notes
Reply to this topicStart new topic

Collapse

Similar Topics

Topic Title Replies Topic Starter Views Last Action
Copper Levels In Women (clipped From Earlier Post) 26 sirius666 25,829 Apr 4 2011, 07:07 PM
Last post by: Musky Tusk
Copper Levels In Women (clipped From Earlier Post) 0 sirius666 0 Feb 7 2011, 06:54 PM
Last post by: Vagrant Dreamer
Jaguar Women 8 bym 3,426 Oct 6 2009, 06:33 AM
Last post by: xXDaemonReignXx
The Women Of My Dreams 2 Hoath 2,883 Mar 19 2007, 02:53 PM
Last post by: Acid09

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st November 2024 - 07:45 AM