Evocation For Non-christians, How do Pagans do it? Options

So I've recently been reading Summoning Spirits. It's an interesting book, but something that struck me is that the rituals in it are as Jewish as the proverbial Bar Mitzvah.

This begs a couple of questions.

1) How do people who adhere to non-Abrahamic religions perform evocations?
2) Are these rituals intended to imply that Judaism genuinely is "the truth," in a supreme or objective sense, to a greater degree than that of other religious systems?

nice post alkeides (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I practice evocation in a different format entirely (than ritual evocation I mean), so some of what has been said in the older debate strikes me as rather dogmatic.

As to why someone might want to practice evocation *without* YHVH & company, angst filled anti-christian sentiment and a desire for a 'cooler' ritual are not the only reasons a person might want to do this. Myself, I was raised in an extremely religious and biblical-scholarly environment, and no I didn't 'hate' it at the time, or develop a combative relationship with my brainwashers. Instead I actually studied the material quite diligently, and I became a "true believer" style christian after a religious experience. All of this lasted until the age of 27/28, at which point in time I had a crisis of faith. Or perhaps more accurately, I came to feel that I had been 'duped' by a global cult. Once the cracks in my faith began to form, rationality, a strong background in psychology, and a strong background in the literary history of the faith, all combined to spread the cracks very quickly, and in no time my religious illusions were shattered.

I will say this, monotheism does use some interesting magick. Even when I was myself completely within the monotheist paradigm, I was always attracted to their magick. I think that many fail to recognize just how much magical practice is actually in the typical church service. My background was dually in catholicism and protestantism, so I got a taste of both ritualistic/chant oriented christian magick, and the more flamboyant energy channeling magick of things like faith healers. And I personally practiced both forms, with some success (yes, I've personally 'done' faith healing). But really there is magical practice tucked into every corner of every tradition in christianity. Everything from votive candles, to ritual communion, to deity invocation... I'll spare you all a huge rundown of all the magical practices & their nonchristian analogs.

Personally I currently consider their 'god' to be a "super-egregore" having nothing to do with the creation of the universe or a figurehead at the light end of a light/dark dualism scheme. In other words, it ain't exactly what it's billed as.

Anyway, it amuses me to see how some people approach ritual magick. And I don't mean for that to be insulting. But, if a person were to write "god's" name in chalk in their ritual floor pattern... what *exactly* does that do? Is it a sigil? does resonating the name in the right chanting monotone cause some magical effect in and of itself? (actually mantra recitation is an interesting magical system, but i digress). What I get from a lot of ritual magick practicioners is a sense of... well, imagine someone who was 'not' a member of the christian faith, now lets say they see some sort of potent christian magick and are impressed. Now lets say they go to a church and steal the crucifix to use as a talisman against illness. Do you think it will work? Or do you think that you might need a working relationship with the egregore behind the sigil in order to utilize it properly? Personally I strongly lean towards the latter.

The christian egregore is heavily littered with 'true believer' prerequisite ideology. In other words, I do not think that you can invoke the power of god just by using his symbolism. If you think he is an egregore, then he is an egregore built by people who hate nonbelievers. If you think he is a real deity, then it makes even less sense to think that you can tell him how to behave just by writing his name. I just don't quite 'get' how a non-christian could comfortably and rationally approach ritual formats which call for christian-faith-based magical forces. It strikes me as more superstitious than formulaic. I say this as someone who is currently a nonchristian myself, and has been for almost a decade. As well as being someone who has studied and worked with most western esoteric ritual formats.

So please remember that the thinking which goes into the construction of most western rituals, is 'a paradigm', not 'an ultimate truth in the universe'. And as such, modification or ignorance of the dogmatic components is not only to be expected, but (by some ways of thinking) even encouraged. And there will be plenty of practicioners (myself included) who will not flinch at the use of christian ideology in their magick out of some desire for a heavy metal album sense of style, but simply because we feel it to be factually invalid content.

anyway, I never did get to the bit where I actually answer the question I was meaning to answer. Namely "alternative" evocation methodology. But I need to leave for work. oh well, it provides a breaking point in my reply I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by Kath: Nov 27 2009, 11:19 AM