Dream, Reality, Astral?, Which is reality? Options

So Before anyone blasts me, let me just say I am still quite new to the whole esoteric community.

Here is my question.
Are dreams the reality? What I mean is this; suppose our astral self is the one that goes to sleep in the day time or when ever we are awake and what we call reality is actually the dream. If not then what connection does dream and the astral have to reality? Read my story below to get why I am asking such a thing before you reply.

For years I have been having these dreams of friends, family, strangers that come true after I have them or sometimes of things that have happened to others that I have no idea why and how I would know information about these people.

Now up to just a little while ago I was a strict christian. But my dreams and other factors prompt me to ask a lot of questions about life and the bible. When I confronted those in high positions within my community and no satisfactory answer could be given, i seeked out the truth (journey) that would make sense of everything. It has been almost a year now since I've started on this, but with more than 20 years of christianity behind me it makes it hard to accept other things, but I do realize that the whole christian society is being "brain washed" if that is the right term to use to some extent where its hard to accept certain other truths even if it was looking you directly into your face.

My journey has taken me into the occult / ancient religions / kabalah (never knew the jewish world existed such a faith) / hermetics (readings such as franz barden) / astral projection/travel / the elements / magick / shamanish / alchemy and the list goes on. Looking into it all they all have something in common esoteric and the occult; if i have this correct "a small group/community that are involved with or the studies of the unknown". Before just hearing the word occult made me think "evil" (naive thinking instilled from christianity.). This brings back the phrase that "people are fearful of what they do not understand". Now the meaning of the word sits a little better with me.

Anyhow i continued on; but even more confused than before. I search and have visited many forums/boards/websites, read many online articles, purchased books but still nothing until just recently I became more interested in astral projection (Again Vagrant Dreams guide was phonominal). Since I have no actual contact with anyone of the occult in my community, I thought to myself why not give youtube another try(visual/audio rather than just realing). I sifted through a few until I popped onto "astral projection for beginners " which after i experienced my first oob(got frustrated for a bit, but finally after months poof) from there i searched more and popped to another forum/website which was also helpful. But ofcourse this was my first forum.

Loved the other site and interviews they had with many esoteric individuals and the respect that they have taken it to another level than the typical esoteric sites I have been to. But this forum has also given me great insight and pointed me int he right direction many times with answers to many of the unknown.

My other question to you is this, Are there others like myself more experienced that I can talk/chat/email/relate with on the whole occult/esoteric subject?

Thanks for reading. Hope to hear from all of you.

Welcome! All cultures and religions, including Christianity, have esoteric traditions. The knowledge is hidden because usually it's powerful, although some of it is still dogma and bits of odds and ends that have no relevance anymore. Most people don't know about it, what they do know frightens them, so perhaps it's just as well.

In answer to your query: Well, what exactly are you hoping to get out of the occult? Are you looking for true knowledge or just some interesting conversation topics that you can use at cocktail parties and that's it? Are you looking for the meaning of life? Are you looking for power--if so, what kind of power? There are many different types. Are you looking for some kind of unified field theory that explains everything away and pigeonholes all sorts of weird experiences into an easily understandable framework? If it's the last you'll be disappointed.

If you just want astral projection, think about why you want it. Do you want it for kicks or something to impress your friends with? Do you want to be able to use it to help your life run more smoothly, or anything else along those lines? It's just an ability like being able to run a four minute mile or pilot an aircraft--by itself it means nothing, at least to me. Only you can answer these questions for yourself.

If you've been raised Christian and want to keep that belief system, look into esoteric Christianity. A lot of Christian mystics have become saints, and studying their lives may help you. Christianity comes in a lot of different flavours--the one thing they have in common is the belief Christ as God's representative on Earth died on the Cross at Cavalry to redeem the human race from original sin, then was resurrected three days later and took His place at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. Beyond that dogma varies widely between denominations/sects. Presbyterians don't necessarily believe the same things as Roman Catholics who don't believe in the same things as the Russian Orthodox church who don't believe in the same things as the Mormons who in turn don't believe in all the same things as evangelicals, etc.--but they're all stripes of one religion, Christianity. Most of your classical Western Ceremonial magic comes out of the Judeo-Christian worldview.

If you think it conflicts with Christianity, not necessarily. I don't understand why it would, because whatever you do is not invalidating the belief that Christ is the redeemer. JMO. Proper magic should put you more in touch with the Divine, not remove you from it--and IIRC Christ himself said that what He did all of you could do as well.

As for what is real--the answer is EVERYTHING. The key lies in figuring out what is objectively real and what is subjectively real and where they overlap. People take too much at face value and get burned.

Welcome! All cultures and religions, including Christianity, have esoteric traditions. The knowledge is hidden because usually it's powerful, although some of it is still dogma and bits of odds and ends that have no relevance anymore. Most people don't know about it, what they do know frightens them, so perhaps it's just as well.

In answer to your query: Well, what exactly are you hoping to get out of the occult? Are you looking for true knowledge or just some interesting conversation topics that you can use at cocktail parties and that's it? Are you looking for the meaning of life? Are you looking for power--if so, what kind of power? There are many different types. Are you looking for some kind of unified field theory that explains everything away and pigeonholes all sorts of weird experiences into an easily understandable framework? If it's the last you'll be disappointed.

If you just want astral projection, think about why you want it. Do you want it for kicks or something to impress your friends with? Do you want to be able to use it to help your life run more smoothly, or anything else along those lines? It's just an ability like being able to run a four minute mile or pilot an aircraft--by itself it means nothing, at least to me. Only you can answer these questions for yourself.

If you've been raised Christian and want to keep that belief system, look into esoteric Christianity. A lot of Christian mystics have become saints, and studying their lives may help you. Christianity comes in a lot of different flavours--the one thing they have in common is the belief Christ as God's representative on Earth died on the Cross at Cavalry to redeem the human race from original sin, then was resurrected three days later and took His place at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. Beyond that dogma varies widely between denominations/sects. Presbyterians don't necessarily believe the same things as Roman Catholics who don't believe in the same things as the Russian Orthodox church who don't believe in the same things as the Mormons who in turn don't believe in all the same things as evangelicals, etc.--but they're all stripes of one religion, Christianity. Most of your classical Western Ceremonial magic comes out of the Judeo-Christian worldview.

If you think it conflicts with Christianity, not necessarily. I don't understand why it would, because whatever you do is not invalidating the belief that Christ is the redeemer. JMO. Proper magic should put you more in touch with the Divine, not remove you from it--and IIRC Christ himself said that what He did all of you could do as well.

As for what is real--the answer is EVERYTHING. The key lies in figuring out what is objectively real and what is subjectively real and where they overlap. People take too much at face value and get burned.

I'm hoping to gain much out of the occult. More so wisdom and understanding of what we are trully capable of and what there is to experience in this world, or the universe even. As for christianity I stand corrected, it is as SoroZSD23 said "it's not the tradition; its what people make it". I was part of a religion which I will not mention at this time; that believed that any form of magic or study into the occult is evil and hence no one shold get involved with.

SororZSD23 thanks for the input also. Both answers shed some more light on what I was thinking. I will keep on studying, practising and see if it leads me closer to that truth I am searching for in the end.

Choa.

I was part of a religion which I will not mention at this time; that believed that any form of magic or study into the occult is evil and hence no one shold get involved with.

I know the feeling ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)


I live with my mother (a dyed-in-the-wool Southern Baptist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/book.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Symbols_1911.gif) ) I have to hide my stuff from her, lest she think Yours Truly is into devil worship (I'm not.)