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 Copper Levels In Women (clipped From Earlier Post), And the value of References.
sirius666
post Feb 6 2011, 01:47 AM
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I would like to keep everything within the realm of known science. I would love to see a QUANTITATIVE (with math - that I can read) study which validates that men have more Iron in their "system" and that women have more "copper" in their system. Are we talking copper metal, copper compounds? cuprous oxides? ... and for iron - ferrous oxides? ferrous nitrate? ferrous sulfate? ... which chemicals are we talking about here. If we are going to bring science into the discussion we should CITE the document or literature which supports the claims being made. Second, if you are going to connect magic to science please do so with some grace and courtesy to scientists who are working exclusively in the boundaries of empiricism (i.e. none of this "women have more copper (unknown compound) than men, (how much more please provide statistics numbers charts graphs analysis of variance .... anything - in what part of the human anatomy or biology was this demonstrated ?? etc.) and this is why women are connected with or identified with Venus (the planet - the archetype - my roommates bunny named Venus ... what do you mean???) AND copper (obviously not a scientific conclusion). Please do not spout facts which have no basis in the literature.

666-Sirius-666

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Darkmage
post Feb 7 2011, 07:09 PM
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Well, here's the thing. Copper levels are elevated in women taking oral contraceptives and/or hormone replacement therapy. So, does that mean they're naturally that way, or is it a side effect of the medication? How many women are running around with undiagnosed autoimmune diseases? Quite a lot, in fact. I think it's safe to say that the jury is well and truly out on this issue and it's going to take a while to hammer out.

Disagreement among experts is more common than not. This is one aspect of science and medicine that a lot of people don't understand. A good deal of medicine is still trial and error--this is something that I have personally learned the hard way. :/ And my endo does research too, although given his habit of triple-booking patients (!) and waltzing in an hour late I wonder how much 'research' is him playing fantasy cricket or whatever the hell he does in his office when the patients and staff aren't around. :/ I have found, however, bringing my laptop instead of my DS is a very effective 'Summon Doctor' talisman. He has yet to be late when I bring my computer. Dunno why...

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Feb 7 2011, 07:17 PM


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Vagrant Dreamer
post Feb 7 2011, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE(Darkmage @ Feb 7 2011, 08:09 PM) *

Well, here's the thing. Copper levels are elevated in women taking oral contraceptives and/or hormone replacement therapy. So, does that mean they're naturally that way, or is it a side effect of the medication? How many women are running around with undiagnosed autoimmune diseases? Quite a lot, in fact. I think it's safe to say that the jury is well and truly out on this issue and it's going to take a while to hammer out.


I could speculate an origin of the assumption to be somewhere in the history of alchemical research, but without proper references I'd better not. Suffice it to say, the jury is out on a vast number of issues, some of which would seem blatantly obvious. I have six patients currently who received the proscribed surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome, each of which gained varying degrees of relief for between one week to three months, before the nerve pain began to return. I treated them with nerve mobilization and they have improved by 60-90% (some more like 60 currently, some closer to 80, using a 1-10 subjective pain scale and factoring in frequency of 'flare ups'). All of their doctors scoffed at the idea of going to a massage therapist, and referred them straight to a surgeon because 'early intervention is best'. They failed the diagnostics, failed the nerve conduction tests, so they were categorized under 'carpal tunnel syndrome' without any consideration for the actual working physiology of the nerves and the tissues surrounding them. The role of connective tissues in nerve pain is something that every doctor I have talked to about it is surprised to hear.

People are misdiagnosed constantly, suffer the consequences, and end up seeking some kind of alternative aid. People end up on a list of medications that literally create chronic pain in their bodies that was not there before, and sometimes these people are convinced that the pain will get -worse- if they try to drop some meds (by talking to their doctor about reducing their medications, not at my personal advice). With the seemingly haphazard way different doctors seem to treat the same conditions across the board, one begins to realize that the body is still largely a mystery; but you'll not often hear a doctor admit that, and the two doctors I work with in my practice I began a relationship with entirely because I heard them say "I don't know." I talk to a lot of doctors, both clients and local professionals, and you almost never hear them say it - even though there is more that we know we don't know, than there is which we know that we know.

QUOTE

Disagreement among experts is more common than not. This is one aspect of science and medicine that a lot of people don't understand. A good deal of medicine is still trial and error--this is something that I have personally learned the hard way. :/ And my endo does research too, although given his habit of triple-booking patients (!) and waltzing in an hour late I wonder how much 'research' is him playing fantasy cricket or whatever the hell he does in his office when the patients and staff aren't around. :/ I have found, however, bringing my laptop instead of my DS is a very effective 'Summon Doctor' talisman. He has yet to be late when I bring my computer. Dunno why...


haha, yeah, that's a variant of Murphy's law, I'm sure. My doctor friend is, I assume, genuinely doing labratory research, although she has grad students in her lab so she might well delegate if she's smart... but she's always ten minutes late so I doubt it. And if you take your computer, and wait, I bet he doesn't come out until you actually turn it on.

peace

(Okay I know, but it is a little bit funny.)



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sirius666   Copper Levels In Women (clipped From Earlier Post)   Feb 6 2011, 01:47 AM
Vilhjalmr   I would love to see a QUANTITATIVE (with math - ...   Feb 6 2011, 02:37 AM
Vagrant Dreamer   I would like to keep everything within the realm ...   Feb 6 2011, 04:32 PM
sirius666   Are you serious? Copper compounds are connected t...   Feb 6 2011, 07:18 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   Vagrant, please produce something in the literatu...   Feb 6 2011, 08:33 PM
Darkmage   Oestrogen and estrogen are exactly the same thing....   Feb 7 2011, 12:33 PM
sirius666   Oestrogen and estrogen are exactly the same thing...   Feb 7 2011, 02:30 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   Thanks for the detail about the variable spelling ...   Feb 7 2011, 06:49 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   This is a post clipped from this conversation: htt...   Feb 7 2011, 06:54 PM
Darkmage   Actually I'm usually checking my mail when the...   Feb 7 2011, 08:22 PM
VitalWinds   See what happens when one overzealous science fana...   Feb 8 2011, 02:38 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   See what happens when one overzealous science fan...   Feb 8 2011, 05:20 PM
VitalWinds   I just found the whole " ...are indeed not a ...   Feb 8 2011, 11:41 PM
Darkmage   I thought religion was about faith and spiritualit...   Feb 8 2011, 11:56 PM
VitalWinds   How is magick a bridge between religion and scienc...   Feb 9 2011, 12:19 AM
Darkmage   In a nutshell--science and magic follow procedures...   Feb 9 2011, 02:50 AM
Vilhjalmr   ]Magic also deals with intangible entities and st...   Feb 9 2011, 12:43 PM
Darkmage   Can they be currently measured? No. Might they be ...   Feb 9 2011, 04:37 PM
Vagrant Dreamer   Assuming that the 'material' world encompa...   Feb 9 2011, 04:51 PM
Vilhjalmr   There are things in the 'real' material w...   Feb 9 2011, 06:13 PM
Darkmage   Monitoring brain activity isn't the same as sa...   Feb 9 2011, 06:47 PM
Waterfall   Monitoring brain activity isn't the same as s...   Feb 9 2011, 08:52 PM
Vilhjalmr   Monitoring brain activity isn't the same as s...   Feb 9 2011, 09:38 PM
VitalWinds   Ughh..... I leave a comment, and somebody argues t...   Feb 11 2011, 03:38 PM
Musky Tusk   lol this thread is very amusing   Apr 4 2011, 07:07 PM

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