To Read In The Dreaming/astral Options

I am afraid to say that this is going to be a post about how bloody hard it is to read in the dreaming/astral, so forgive the rant and try to look for the bits worth reading. Or pass it up all together as I get rather academic when I am working out a problem.

I love to read and do so veraciously, naturally this caries over in to my dreams and sometimes into my astral work. Its rather interesting to note that I will often find myself reading something in a dream and it will be deep and profound, and yet also perfectly unintelligible scribblings- even while lucid dreaming. In the astral proper I find that particular symbols, words and what have you are a pain to read, discern, or even see clearly, if I can manage that at all.

On the other hand the general type of symbols such as trees, plants, buildings, and furniture, are all quite easy to make out. As are grand motif’s of existence, such as Jungian archetypes. So it would seem that, in perfect consistency with the contrary nature of the astral, the vaguer something is the easier to make out. It might also be put as something being vague in meaning and particular in role is it is easier to relate to ones experience.

However, I have, on occasion, seen personal symbols, and unique symbols that I have seen elsewhere quite clearly. The unique symbols are often complex but also composed of common element that one would not see as a symbol in the waking world. Think for example of a picture of happiness or absolute misery on might find in Time magazine. The personal symbols are more abstract, often resembling a sigil- sometimes a three emotional one.

So I have it that neither the complexity nor the abstractness of the symbol is what determines the ease of reading. Being that the personal symbols are abstract/complex and the clearest ones are complex/vague and the hardest to see are simple abstraction. It might well be that the shear mass of symbols that make up a page of text is just too much information to process though my projected mind. My ability factors in to it in odd ways as well. Over the past few months I have been doing third eye work, and now I can make out the shapes of the letters, but cannot relate them to any thing like words or meaning. Yet I find the complex symbols involving photograph like scenes with clear meaning also have the “blurriest” appearance.

I am tempted to say that symbols when viewed in the astral are separated from the thing they signify, relying on context and personal inference to establish a grander meaning. I believe that they are also made clear by their emotional content. This would explain why writing is so hard to make out and derive meaning form. The symbols (letters) have no emotional content, and are being assembled into bigger symbols (words) that compose bigger symbols (sentences), that are part of a grand symbol (the page of text.) At every stage the meanings grow in implications and nuance, creating noise as it does do, until the only thing discernable is the emotional content of the whole- and so I feel that the page is deeply profound.

I feel you on this one ha. As far as astral traveling and reading I think I can do it decently enough but it takes quite a bit of concentration and sometimes I get the "blaze and burn out" sort of effect where I concentrate really hard so everything is extremely focused but I can't maintain it and I slip out of the astral area entirely. Astrally I think that reading is much less necessary since intentions and feelings flow through symbols and emotions so well, sort of like you mentioned. Dream reading is a whole different game entirely and I can't reliably find non-gibberish material to look at. I can absolutly read as far as capability wise in both settings though. I think the limiting factor is probably concentration in both cases.

I would like to hear back about your book results but from what I have read and done myself it is completely possible, but not very interesting ha. Once I'm astral traveling I want to travel around!

Goodluck

Astrally I think that reading is much less necessary since intentions and feelings flow through symbols and emotions so well, sort of like you mentioned. Dream reading is a whole different game entirely and I can't reliably find non-gibberish material to look at. I can absolutly read as far as capability wise in both settings though. I think the limiting factor is probably concentration in both cases.
Goodluck

So, its not the same as reading and enjoying your own personal interpretation of the book, but if it's information your seeking this should work just fine.

Good point.

It has been a while now sense I wrote this and I have learned a few things. Astral understanding is one thing, of course, learning to understand the meaning of what is there is more or less a straight forward afire. But I am inclined to think of language in the conventional sense as symbolic in its own right. It seems that if something was written then the way it was composed and the medium chosen are valid points to consider. Even given that the astral makes itself according to our limitations, and therefore written language is an expression of an underling "truth" best suited to our mind, I think that the expression is just as revealing as the "truth". It hints at a more constrained and therefore useful understanding. Understanding as apposed to knowledge, is less readily apply to ones own magick. Its like a gold brick: having much value one profits from its acquisition but it is hard to convert into usefully spent portions. Knowledge is much easier to "spend". It is my belief that the writing in dreams and the astral are a particular articulation of understanding which is easier for use to apply. Assuming that the limits of our own mind are what shapes the articulation which understanding is presented to use examining that articulation informs us about our limits, forewarned with both an understanding of "truth" and knowledge which we can apply, our efforts to strive past our limits become enhanced.

Concentration is a factor in this as it is in all things but for myself I find that I do not lack that way. Instead, it seems to be a spiritual lacking. Over the months sense I last wrote I have taken to a odd sort of Taoist practice wherein I concentrate my my spirit in the third eye area and strengthen it by feeding it refined pre-birth chi extracted from the kidneys. It is very slow but recently I have noticed some changes. First, was that I could stay in a spiritual frame of mind longer when not meditating. Following that I was able see rather than feel chi moving. More recently I have been able to read writing in my dreams. Lucidity is as happenstance is always been with me, but when I can direct the dream with enough care that I do not change the dreams substance (only affecting view and actions) I can read as clearly as if I was waking. I attribute much to the spiritual work I have done, but i also think that training a level of sensitivity or empathy and also having gained more stillness help immeasurably.

As to the book experiment, I confirmed my initial assumptions in so far that reading it twice so to speak made the second time around much quicker. Indeed some books lost much interest for me because their plots where either known or guest at too well.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: Feb 21 2011, 06:35 PM

Interesting experiment, have heard that reading is difficult on the astral... also something about lights, turning lights on and off seems to be an issue.

Have you tried reading a book that you haven't read before and seeing just how much you could actually make out of it?

Interesting experiment, have heard that reading is difficult on the astral... also something about lights, turning lights on and off seems to be an issue.

Have you tried reading a book that you haven't read before and seeing just how much you could actually make out of it?

Indeed I have, and the first few time I tried it the text was mostly unintelligible, but I could make out the intent. Once I read the book in the waking world I was able to predict the plot and some passages felt like it was from a book I had forgotten that I read.

Indeed I have, and the first few time I tried it the text was mostly unintelligible, but I could make out the intent. Once I read the book in the waking world I was able to predict the plot and some passages felt like it was from a book I had forgotten that I read.

So basically, "reading" something cryptic in the astral THEN reading it in the real world would probably boost your grasp of the text, like x10....