The Rose Cross, A method for sigilization Options

The golden developed a vey nice and effective way for drawing sigils,that is the rose cross,many magicians used this method with success,I keep a copy in my grimoire,there is not much to say actually about it so i will just insert the rose cross:
(IMG:http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/wb/images/hwb-sigil-2.gif)


simply trace the word you want to sigilize with a pencil drawing a small horizontal line in the beginning of the sigil and a small circle at the end.

Charge the sigil and good luck.

A map is not the same as the territory.
A menu is not the same as the meal.

A symbol is not the same as that which is symbolized.

Unless I make a significantly connect the symbol and symbolized together, that symbol is useless for me.
And this means that regardless of what a name, sigil, seal, icon, glyph, etc... symbolizes for someone/group on a metaphysical level, if it is not significantly meaningful for me then it has no power over me.

o.O.o

The classic core of the topic that this sort of discussion tends to orbit around is an argument over what is and/or is not "real".

Counter arguments tend to bring up entities or events in the Physical Plane. For example: whether or not the word/sigil/seal/icon/etc... for a tiger is symbolically significant for you doesn't mean that you're not going to experience a potentially fatal outcome if you encounter a real tiger and it pounces you! Then an extrapolation is made for such an example from the physical to the metaphysical and a pronouncement of the situation is proclaimed to be the "same thing".

But such extrapolations "ain't necessarily so".
In fact, for me, such examples and extrapolations are flat out erroneous.

As I know it: any insistence for that it is necessarily so amounts to nothing more than an attempt to coax, cajole, or otherwise convince me to accept that what is "real" for them on a metaphysical level necessarily also must be real for me - that the entities/events/dynamics/etc... that they and/or their group discerns on a metaphysical level, and therefore that the codifications (symbols) they use for symbolizing (and with which manipulating) said entities/events/dynamics/etc... organized according to their personal or group paradigm, also must be significant for, affect, and thus be adopted and used by me. According to their exact instructions for doing so (of course).

In other words: it's an attempt to proselytize (albeit in a magick-user way) - essentially akin to how certain notorious religions attempt to convert folks, complete with similar dire threats about what will happen if I do not meekly and obediently convert to using their paradigm as authoritative for my metaphysical understanding and experience.

o.O.o

Make no mistake here - I am willing carefully to consider the merits of various metaphysical entities and events with which people work and engage. I'm willing to break down and analyse their core (and associated) principle constituents and theoretical actions. Who knows? I might find a pragmatic use for them myself.

However, the bottom line remains: no symbol, sigil, seal, icon, necessarily means anything, or does anything, to me unless I've incorporated it into my Operating System.

And with all that said - yes, I do find various method for making sigils (like the Rose Cross, etc...) extremely useful for quickly iconalizing stuff in my personal paradigm.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Nov 15 2011, 08:13 AM

Wow, Praxis you've been on a resurrection kick for a while here, haven't you?

I think that the efficacy of a sigil drawn from the rose, isn't empowered in some way because it was drawn on the rose. It has the same degree of efficacy of any other sigil drawn using any other method. The proper use of the rose cross - or any other similarly situated symbol properly placed in the practitioner's sphere of consciousness - is another story, but for anyone not using it properly it's just a method of drawing lines in an orderly fashion.

I personally believe the planetary kamea to be the same kind of system, and that the effectiveness of the sigils drawn using them are worthless unless you have grasped the patterning of the square and what the magical square represents in terms of magical work, rather than just a curiosity of math.

Widespread belief in something is worthless of the widespread belief in is different directions - every person on the earth could be aware of the rose in the rose cross, and it wouldn't make a difference unless they were all initiates with the full understanding of what the symbol means, where it's spiritual counterpart exists in them, and had all of the same elements precisely aligned in the same way across the board. This is the intent of a lot of people focused on the same thing, but unless your intentions match, there will be conflict. Likewise, the use and belief of INITIATES might play a role in empowering the rose in some way - but unless you are lined up with that current properly it's just ink and paper to your use.

I did a fun experiment in the way-back, when we were playing with psi-wheels and PK. My friend and I were trying to work together to make the psi-wheel turn, but this exercise was actually less effective together than it was apart. We tried this consistently for a few days, and continued to practice on our own, but for whatever reason we could not wiggle the wheel even a bit. We both believed that our method, mentally, was basically better - but couldn't deny that if this were true then it should still be working.

So, we both described our process, and came up with a kind of compromise. Step by step we established a very, very specific psychic protocol, from the mental state we got to based on mutual experiences, up to how we actually viewed the psycho-material process happening. We left no detail (that we were aware of) untouched, we started with mind and worked our way out to matter and then down into the itty-bitty bits and the space between and back into mind, completing the circle and ensuring that we were 100% on the same page. Low and behold, with just a little more practice the little wheel spins back and forth, not drastically more impressive than our individual game, but at least noticeably improved. What's more, we recognized that being 'on the same page' made the experiment move forward whereas having conflicting ideas, even subtle ones where the intention was basically the same, stopped the whole process entirely.

It's a demonstration of the same principle. If two or more people take the same symbol and work with it in precisely the same way, in tandem and 'cadence', both internally and externally, then yes the work is empowered by their collective efforts - this is the whole point of initiation and lodge work. It's the reason initiation is such a lengthy process. Like IA mentioned, it's the indoctrination process; it gets everyone on the same page, working the same way, having traveled the same path (as 'same' as it can be, anyway) with the same connections, interpretations, and symbols that all mean precisely the same thing to all of them. It is not enough for a group of people to just agree that this symbol is good for making sigils. It has to be much, much deeper than that.

Beyond that though aside from having internal consistency that won't confuse the unconscious, making a group work like that is really that simple - which is to say, structuring it is relatively simple. For it's purpose, the rose cross might as well be a rose star, or a rose doorknob, or anything else. As long as everyone is on the same page from the bottom up, it works the same way.

Jung's collective unconscious is about looooong generational influences in species-wide inherited unconscious attributes. Something like the Rose Cross is not present in the collective unconscious, nor is some sigil that any random group of people agree to use together. This is a very widely misunderstood concept, often used as a reason why a lot of people believing in something gives it some kind of psychic power. That is not the case, and Jung's work - if actually read - does not suggest that this is in any way so. Now, might everything that is, was, and can be exist on a spiritual/astral kind of level, intemporal in nature? Sure. But that also doesn't mean the same thing, any more than someone inventing a piece of technology (or have been going to always have done so - for your intemporal past-future-present-perfect tense of the day) means that you are immediately able to grasp that tech and how to build it yourself.

peace