No, You're Wrong., >:-( Options

Anybody else here getting tired of the people who always want to say that you're wrong?

The "above average" student who tries to use science to debate whatever they can.
The religious zealot who uses arguments such as "Well, you're going to hell. That's just the harsh reality of it."
Or maybe just the goddamn skeptics who like to deny the existence of anything above them simply because they can never get enough proof.

Makes me freaking irate.

We should all do something about these people. Any suggestions? Maybe organized genocide? Mass marginalization and eradication? War? LOL. (It's funny cause those are all basically the same thing.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rofl.gif)

But no really. Something ought to be done about people like this. Maybe we could start a movement to pass a bill making it illegal to deny another person's beliefs, so that a person has to state that it is only their opinion. I mean really it should all be categorized as hate speech anyway. If I started saying in a public building that all Mexicans were shit, I would get arrested. Yet Christians can stand around in their Churches and belittle the beliefs of others, simply because the people who founded this country were Christian. ...They were also white. And isn't it more wrong to verbally assault someone for their beliefs than for their heritage? It's "Oh, Buddha was a fatty and you're going to hell" as compared to "I dislike you because your people have social standards that most of the rest of the world would imprison a person for."

Am I making sense to you guys? I'm saying that it's one thing to assault a person's heritage, but quite another to assault their beliefs. Yes, it is all marginalization, but one has some degree of rationale behind it (unless you're a hateful inbred).

And I was soooo not serious about starting a holocaust. I'm just making a point in the best way that I can at the moment, and would ask that the moderators not freak out over it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Vagrant, I would appreciate your normal in-depth critique.

I have become use to constant dissing on my whole system of beliefs and practices for years and i am only 18. I have dealt with it from family to class mates whenever i was in school i used to become so angry and frustrated. But then i realized that them telling me i was going to hell because of the things i believed or practiced i simply laughed in there face or depending on the person i would ask them why i was and to explain justify why i would go to hell int there beliefs. I would sit listen to what they had to say but usually when you ask someone this they are stunned they don't expect you to engage in conversation like this. Then whenever it is my turn to speak i would tell them things about there own religion they did not know or that god said he created us in his own image and that we all have divinity in us in some shape or form for example. All depending on what the person said i would try to come up with the most intelligent answer i could give them and explain to them certain things and a lot of the times by the end of the conversation it went from your going to hell to them sitting and asking me questions on many different subjects they themselves where condemning.

I have become use to constant dissing on my whole system of beliefs and practices for years and i am only 18. I have dealt with it from family to class mates whenever i was in school i used to become so angry and frustrated. But then i realized that them telling me i was going to hell because of the things i believed or practiced i simply laughed in there face or depending on the person i would ask them why i was and to explain justify why i would go to hell int there beliefs. I would sit listen to what they had to say but usually when you ask someone this they are stunned they don't expect you to engage in conversation like this. Then whenever it is my turn to speak i would tell them things about there own religion they did not know or that god said he created us in his own image and that we all have divinity in us in some shape or form for example. All depending on what the person said i would try to come up with the most intelligent answer i could give them and explain to them certain things and a lot of the times by the end of the conversation it went from your going to hell to them sitting and asking me questions on many different subjects they themselves where condemning.

I like that. I've managed to do that to a few people, but mostly just my friends and my sister. I explained my beliefs on the correlation of the Sumerian Mythology to that of modern mainstream religion and some pagan religions and she actually took a good interest in what I had to say about my belief that a person was meant to take control of the power we call magick, regardless of the religious context you practice it under.

I'm actually writing a book on what I believe, where my beliefs come from, and my theories on the evolution of theology over the past maybe 12,000 years. But that's a post for later.

I simply, calmly, and evenly tell the folks who tell me that I'm "going to hell" that I don't follow their belief system.

At that point, they usually proclaim "It's true whether you believe it or not!" - insisting that what they're saying has nothing at all to do with beliefs or believing. Then I point out that if what they are saying is indeed true, if beliefs and believing have nothing at all to do with it, then there's no need for me to believe anything they're saying. There's no need for me to "believe in God" or "believe in Jesus" or believe that any of their teachings about how to get to heaven and how not to go to hell, etc...

That usually puts them in a conundrum.

While they are in that conundrum, I very concisely explain that a belief is an idea that does not match my experience - and that believing therefore is the process of living as if a belief is true. Living as if a belief is true is trusting that such beliefs are true - and trusting that such beliefs are true also can be called "having faith" in beliefs.

That compounds their conundrum, because "faith", "having faith", "believing", and "beliefs" are the bread and butter of their entire perspective. They're stuck now, because if they insist that believing doesn't have anything to do with outcomes, then they invalidate their motivation and reason for believing, having faith, etc...

Then I contrast this with knowing and knowledge, which I explain are based upon experience.
And I toss in the example: I don't believe that gravity exists ... I know that gravity exists because I experience gravity functioning.


At this point, they start doing a series of dodges and back-peddling, or they tenaciously hold onto their affirmation that "It's true whether you believe it or not!", and I simply, calmly, and evenly ask them where I can get the experience of hell so that I can be sure they're not just making shit up and otherwise lying to me (in the deceitful and despicable attempt to control how I live my life) - without quoting me doctrines from their belief system, since it has nothing to do with beliefs or believing.


This is where watching their cognitive dissonance unfold becomes truly interesting.