Skeptic That Evocations Ever Work, Looking for evidence Options

Hello, I am new to the forum.

I am interested in many religious pursuits. I think there are many things that have been proven to develop oneself - such as meditation. However, I suspect that everyone here that thinks they are summoning demons or angels are deluding themselves, and that in fact they are just working in their own imaginations - which may be quite fruitful imaginations.

For instance, I'm thinking of a thread where people casually talked about summoning a demon for sexual purposes. I am sorry but I believe you have an over-active imagination, and that none of those events ever happened. I've read many grimoires, and I think they exist because they are from a time in which man did not know very much, and things which are common knowledge attributable to science were simply not known then. Reading the Verum and asking for scientific knowledge won't work.

In addition, I read another thread on here where the man Lisiewski was discussed. Someone alleged that he was bunk, as he was charging $600 for pupils to learn from him. I agree with that charge, but I think if everyone here would be a little more open minded, the fact that every single group is making that charge against another group (not every single person but you know what I mean), is evidence that none of them work. Lisiewski charges Thelema, people that like the modern methods charge Lisiewski etc

If you have ever summoned a demon and asked for monetary support, and you have convinced yourself that it actually appeared, why don't you simply submit that evidence to the Randi forum for your million dollar prize? (Please note I dislike Randi and think he's totally incorrect, but you get my point).

You might wonder why I'm here, and no, it's not to troll. I am convinced of an afterlife. I believe in NDEs, and I believe in ghosts. I didn't used to believe in ghosts, but I think the evidence for them is strong based upon reports of people that I believe. So, that's why I'm here. I want to be convinced that you're all not just pretending like I think you are. I don't think you will, but I want you to.

I believe that spiritual development is the most important thing a person can do in their lifetime. My personal belief is that some of you have played too many RPGs and are merely engaging in escapism, wishful thinking.

I'm legitimately interested to hear your counters.

PS please check my intro in coffee house if you would like to know my perspective

This post has been edited by arcan: Oct 5 2011, 05:10 PM

Interesting. I think this definition is a little more amenable to my tastes. I know that hypnotism was once thought to be bunk, but now is an established scientific practice, and, while hypnotized, people could be told that there are entities around which don't exist, that they would 'see' and react to. It seems similar. That being said, do you 'see' your entities, or do you hear them, feel them, or any combination thereof?

Similar - and definitely different.

The entities I evoke do indeed exist.
After all, they are integral aspects comprising the ecology (and functional in the economy) of my innerspace.

Evocation is the ritual tool I use for "taking them offline" and formally assessing and adjusting the efficiency of their function.
Invocation is the ritual tool I use for "bringing them online" to operate with upgraded dynamics.

So it's not the same as any sort of mere hypnotically induced daydream involving events or things which have no effectiveness or purpose other than entertainment.

Since the ritual process is akin to a consciously induced, tightly controlled, and impactfully focussed lucid dream, I "see" them, and "hear" them, and with some there is an associated scent to "smell" them. But make no mistake when I say that, I'm talking about using inner sight, inner audio, and inner smelling - I'm not talking about seeing, hearing, and smelling them using the physical sense organs of my body.

As I mentioned before: for me, evocation is not about causing metaphysical entities to become physical, such that other people would see, hear, touch, smell, etc... them with their physical senses.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Dec 5 2011, 08:05 AM