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 The Observer Effect, that great quantum puzzle
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post Jan 27 2012, 05:01 PM
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Or more accurately Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
I really don't know where to post this so it's here.

It's that test where they chuck electrons through slits and see the patterns as they hit the other side, only if you detect the electrons passing they change their pattern.
Can anyone find any actual experimental data where the electron detection equipment (like electronic recordings) are placed in a box kinda..
like a cat in a box? are the results entirely bias to human observation or is mechanical observation good enough?

All the sites i see tend to brush around the subject like an uncomfortable fact, not liking to say it, so trying to say it in a really complicated way.
If it is the case that it takes consciousness alone to cause the effect, which i think it dose, then it must really piss off annoying atheistic cynical types.

I for one think that is an amazingly good sport that should be practiced at length.


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post Feb 2 2012, 05:47 PM
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My apologies for being a little mellow dramatic about the potential for witch-hunts on this but i disagree that it is not a real threat anymore.
Children are still being tortured an killed in Africa for being witch's and that may be due to their lack of education,
but one can't assume that our educations denial of magical ability isn't the reason for our safety.
We won't see another great hunt i agree, but something akin to sever racism could definitely be on the cards, an that's a nasty social revolution to have to undergo.

QUOTE
The world at large is never going to take magic seriously, never going to agree on which version of God is correct, and never going to accept a universal standard of morality.


What a terrible shame it would be if one of the most amazingly useful talents humans have come to possess was never seen for the worth it deserves.
If healing with the art was socially accepted it's combination with 'modern medicine' would be almost unstoppable an it could potentially relieve us from the pharmaceutical monopoly that keeps healthcare cost only affordable in rich country's,
which might be why alternative medicine of any-kind is so discredited, money talks.
As for what version of God is best i quite like the idea that eventually people might just agree that its best to just be inventive about the subject, why would ANYONE want the same god as someone else!
Only when people can start getting jobs as magic users can people start getting a proper education on the subject.

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observing these quantum scale experiments appears to affect their outcome, awareness of reality alters reality - so if I believe hard enough, something will happen.
That's not a far cry from a magical act, but it's a wild leap from the observed facts.


You make it out like its not a big deal.. the observed facts are that consciousness effects sub-atomic outcomes through sometimes a rather tenuous link to the actual data,
which, funnily enough would suggest that people watching or testing magical acts would be effecting their outcome.. making James Randi style tests rather extra-inconclusive.
I for one have only been able to perform magical acts in the presence of people when i've taken their observation into account, by either suggesting to them in someway of the potential for it's occurrence or
by directly effecting their ability to observe and expect things.
i get the impression that to do something even small under James Randi conditions would be like having to f%*! the heads of a small nation, the uncertainty principle backs it up.

Science as a whole has debunked the paranormal for a very long time and would brush this under the carpet far more effectively if cathode ray tubes weren't so prolific, in more ways than one since its all the equipment you need to perform the experiment.
Scientific understanding has as many secrets as occultists do, maybe more, this might not be one of them but it's a fact they rather it was.

I don't want to get all conspiratorial on ur ass but i'm already a new-agey tree-hugger so i don't care much for labels so i will.
I mentioned that it would be nice to get a job as a mage but you only have to look around to see that positions are being filled already
Military; would be fools not no have spent billions on it
Medicine; would be fools not to have spent billions debunking it.
Marketing; Stock markets are predictable with it, company's form identity's with it, people buy what you want with it..

Practically every commercial or governmental enterprise inclined to use magic is also inclined to keep it a secret.
Same goes for scientific research, often in the same organizations.

The last famously good scientist of note was retarded, the ones before him lived in world-war 2.
Good scientist nowadays sign declarations of secrecy before they even graduate, what descent discovery's they make that intermingle with magic are completely off the radar.

QUOTE
The equations don't balance out in all three qualities, though, if you get speed and position, the particle will appear to be both a wave and particle; if you get state and speed, it might appear to be nowhere or everywhere, or both.


It's nice to have a scientific observation on the subject said in such an understandable manor, it's rare.
as well as very interesting.

The fact is that science and the establishment as a whole has debunked the paranormal initially only to defuse the massive unquestionable power of the christian church but once a system is in place it becomes profitable for that system to continue.
The society we live in is a band-aid for the catastrophically corrupt church, an its stuck on with the congealed blood of its victims, only now its harboring the same infection it was intended to fix.
It could be said that Christianity was once the band-aid for pagan faiths that preceded it.
The infection, the impulse to hold on to power after it's fulfilled it's purpose.

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