Sigils Vs Talismans Options

Both are said to have the same effect, that of bringing something toward you, am not sure if a sigil can be made to protect you from something like an amulet but anyway... decided to get into the use of sigils as at times its good to have a bit of lower stuff to compliment higher stuff, thought Kraig gave information on it but found it kind of lacking in place of a more indepth section on talismans, a questioning thought then arose as to their purpose, which to use and for what.... so I pose it here.

Why go through the arduous process of making and charging a talisman if you can draw up and "charge" a sigil in a much shorter space of time?

Am I correct in saying that sigils would be best for use in regards to inner changes while talismans are better for external?

This sounds correct, at least to me.

For example, I'm rubbish with women for the most part and wish to improve on this, a talisman to this effect would be useless as I would be attempting to draw this change externally...? Whereas a sigil would be an attempt at bringing the desired quality out from within my self.... still, its a given example in Kraigs text that a talisman can be used to help with studies which would mean that they're quite apt at bringing internal, dormant qualities out as well as drawing them in but its a confusing one... another example, have been attempting to get a yoga move for a while, how would a talisman help in regards to achiving yogic practices, it would surely bring you a good guru or an inspired comment from one as you practice, putting you on the path toward its attainment = External. A sigil would impregnate your subconscious, have you realize the blockage and help you release it + Internal.

Opinion...?
Peace
//M//

Both are said to have the same effect, that of bringing something toward you, am not sure if a sigil can be made to protect you from something like an amulet but anyway... decided to get into the use of sigils as at times its good to have a bit of lower stuff to compliment higher stuff, thought Kraig gave information on it but found it kind of lacking in place of a more indepth section on talismans, a questioning thought then arose as to their purpose, which to use and for what.... so I pose it here.

Why go through the arduous process of making and charging a talisman if you can draw up and "charge" a sigil in a much shorter space of time?

Am I correct in saying that sigils would be best for use in regards to inner changes while talismans are better for external?

For example, I'm rubbish with women for the most part and wish to improve on this, a talisman to this effect would be useless as I would be attempting to draw this change externally...? Whereas a sigil would be an attempt at bringing the desired quality out from within my self.... still, its a given example in Kraigs text that a talisman can be used to help with studies which would mean that they're quite apt at bringing internal, dormant qualities out as well as drawing them in but its a confusing one... another example, have been attempting to get a yoga move for a while, how would a talisman help in regards to achiving yogic practices, it would surely bring you a good guru or an inspired comment from one as you practice, putting you on the path toward its attainment = External. A sigil would impregnate your subconscious, have you realize the blockage and help you release it + Internal.

Talismans are somewhat more versatile than sigils, as they utilize forces not directly assessable to the magus or at least ones that are impractical to direct actively, but as a rule they create a field of relevant energies around itself and, providing your carrying it, around you as well. This means that there are more applications for a talisman because they give a physical anchor to the magick so it will last longer and is more potent. As long as you can state the intent for the talisman in terms of "to make such-and-such a thing happen" and it is happening to the person place or thing connected with the talisman they should work very well.

A sigil as general rule works on some deep aspect of the mind - some say unconscious, some super conscious, some universal unconscious - depending on which one you work with the effects are manifest in different ways. The process in still the same in that you imbue a symbol of your intent with power and then release it. Use unconscious assumption and it brings changes in you - you will get a personality quality that helps with lady problems for example. Use the universal unconscious assumption and you can effect other people, for example making a woman notice/like you. Assume it uses super conscious and you can make situation occur, for example getting you and the right lady together at the right time.

You are correct in thinking a talisman can bring you a guru and dedication, but so would a sigil. Personally, I would use a talisman for the former and a sigil for the later. Using a sigil in this case is turning your mind into a talisman which attracts beneficial situations, energies and mindsets. As for the yoga move you are attempting that is rather more complicated. Because it is so physical and deals only in the physical plane there is no direct way to go about it with magick. I have heard about some eastern talismans which effect conditions of the body but that is one level removed from the physical plane.

The real difference between a talisman and a sigil come out in magus's conceptions on duality. A talisman cannot bring you a "thing" nor can a sigil. They can alter the situations and energies in which you/the talisman/sigil operate, making it more likely if not inevitable that you get what you want, yet that is not the same as saying the sigil/talisman got me money for example. Internal/external is only useful up to a point. For sigils and talismans it is often more productive to look at how removed an objective is from the material plane. If it is not at all removed, a talisman being a physical anchor for the energies is often more helpful. Also helpful is abstracting the goal away from the physical plane. Doing so increases the effectiveness of your magick, manipulating more energy or mental schema which are more substantial to influence. If your goal is highly abstracted, think if you will of love or some other psycho-emotional state, then a sigil is more efficient regardless of internal aims (insight) or external (studies); providing you only want a one off event. Anything that lasts over time needs a physical anchor. That I suppose is the reason for making a talisman despite the effort.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: May 5 2012, 12:31 PM