Yay! Or Nay! To Drugs?, pros and cons of using mind altering drugs for magical purposes Options

Forget right and wrong....do drugs help or hinder the magical process????

as loosely defined by our dear friend Wikipedia (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) a drug is:

"any substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function"

I've narrowed it down to 'mind altering' in the description column but by no means do I wish to exclude even minor drugs like aspirin or even caffeine...because we all know that these ultimately affect the 'state' in which we perform our various agendas.

i have so many questions that could be answered.

how do drugs, (and which drugs) help the process?
is it necessary to use drugs to obtain an experience, or certain experience, for some people?
do drugs hurt or help ALL spiritual practices, or only certain ones? which ones are these?
which drugs are better, which drugs are worse for magick purposes?
do some of you use drugs ONLY during a ritual...or do you uses it for recreational purposes as well?
if you use drugs to induce certain experiences, do you feel like every time and every experience is valid?
How can you distinguish true from false, and what is the consistent mentality behind accepting what you experience?
do drugs open up gates, or do they tear down the walls of your mind, or do they close doors?
what is the theory behind the spiritual quality of drugs (or perception thereof)?

i am eager to hear what you guys have to say!!!!


(ooops. look like there was already a post like this. sorry guys. i have no idea how to unpost this...nvm haha.)
I like the topic, so I'll keep it up unless the author strenuously objects or a mod rules otherwise...-Bym

This post has been edited by bym: May 13 2009, 11:27 AM

Drugs are definitely not required. I have never tried illegal drugs, but I was convinced to try a legal one that supposedly helped with gnosis. It did nothing for me, only bodily. I get the same effects from alcohol as I do from the other stuff. It's not a sure thing and can be really dangerous. Even if the drug is not physically addictive, it can be psychologically addictive. Of course Shaman have been using drugs for magickal purposes forever. If you choose to take drugs, you might want to talk to an expert like a shaman. Be careful, some people claim to be something their not. It's also important to note that a lot of drugs kill brain cells:


"Absinthe - besides exceedingly high amounts of ethanol, absinthe also contains thujone, a GABA receptor antagonist. Effectively, thujone is the opposite of benzodiazepine anticonvulsant/tranquilizers (such as Xanax and Valium). Unsurprisingly, in high doses, thujone has been proven to cause seizure and death. Fortunately (or unfortunately, if you're looking to damage your brain cells), the European Union places restrictions on thujone content in absinthe, ensuring the drink's psychoactive and neurotoxic qualities arise from the high alcohol content, and not the thujone.
Alcohol - while the greatest ethanol-induced brain damage results from vitamin deficiencies (see Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome below), alcohol itself can also result in structural changes within the brain. Since ethanol has a variety of pharmacological effects, it's difficult to tell exactly how the damage arises, but MRI evidence shows decreased brain volume in alcoholic patients.
Dissociatives (DXM, MK-801, PCP, Ketamine) - A study by J.W. Olney showed that in rat models, administration of normal doses NMDA receptor antagonist drugs resulted in over-excitation and death of neurons as a result of malfunction of intracellular organelles (specifically, the mitochondria and endoplasmic reticulum). Since then, additional studies have shown many kinds of cognitive deficits in chronic ketamine users.
MDMA (Ecstasy) - MDMA has been proven to produce damage to serotonin neurons in rats and mice due to oxidative stress and free radical damage. Some have claimed that fMRI evidence demonstrates similar damage in humans, although many have disputed these studies. There have also been several studies showing memory deficits in those who abuse MDMA. Administration of a SSRI such as fluoxetine (Prozac) within 4-6 hours of MDMA use may reduce the risk of damage. The media has hyped MDMA's relationship to dehydration, which can also produce brain damage (see below).
Methamphetamine (speed, meth, ice, way too many Vicks Vapor Inhalers, etc.) - like MDMA, methamphetamine appears to produce oxidative stress, but damages dopamine rather than serotonin neurons. As a result, chronic methamphetamine abusers often show early-onset symptoms of Parkinson's disease and other cognitive deficits. Recent research has shown that prior administration of a free radical scavenger such as N-acetylcysteine can attenuate damage. Like any other stimulant, methamphetamine can also produce stroke (see below).
MPTP - MPTP results from improper synthesis of MPPP, a synthetic opioid. A single dose can result in severe damage to dopamine neurons, producing symptoms resembling those of Parkinson's disease. MPTP is often used to produce animal models of the disease to test new treatments.

Notably absent from this list are marijuana and the 5-HT2A agonist psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, mescaline, etc.). That doesn't mean that these drugs are safe, just that according to the research I was able to find, they are not neurotoxic in and of themselves. On the other hand, there is well-established evidence that these drugs can damage the brain in other ways. Psychedelics can produce HPPD or PTSD, and early-onset marijuana use increases the probability an individual will develop schizophrenia. See PubMed, Erowid, or Wikipedia for more on the effects of drugs."

[quote name='Firephoenix' date='Jun 2 2009, 08:40 PM' post='42827']
Drugs are definitely not required. I have never tried illegal drugs, but I was convinced to try a legal one that supposedly helped with gnosis. It did nothing for me, only bodily. I get the same effects from alcohol as I do from the other stuff. It's not a sure thing and can be really dangerous. Even if the drug is not physically addictive, it can be psychologically addictive. Of course Shaman have been using drugs for magickal purposes forever. If you choose to take drugs, you might want to talk to an expert like a shaman. Be careful, some people claim to be something their not. It's also important to note that a lot of drugs kill brain cells:
"Absinthe - besides exceedingly high amounts of ethanol, absinthe also contains thujone, a GABA receptor antagonist. Effectively, thujone is the opposite of benzodiazepine anticonvulsant/tranquilizers (such as Xanax and Valium). Unsurprisingly, in high doses, thujone has been proven to cause seizure and death. Fortunately (or unfortunately, if you're looking to damage your brain cells), the European Union places restrictions on thujone content in absinthe, ensuring the drink's psychoactive and neurotoxic qualities arise from t (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif) he high alcohol content, and not the thujone.
Alcohol - while the greatest ethanol-induced brain (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif) damage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif) results from vitamin deficiencies (see Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome below), alcohol itself can also result in structural changes within the brain. Since ethanol has a variety of pharmacological effects, it's difficult to tell exactly how the damage arises, but MRI evidence shows decreased brain volume in alcoholic patients.
Dissociatives (DXM, MK-801, PCP, Ketamine) - A study by J.W. Olney showed that in rat models, administration of normal doses NMDA receptor antagonist drugs resulted in over-excitation and death of neurons as a result of malfunction of intracellular organelles (specifically, the mitochondria and endoplasmic reticulum). Since then, additional studies have shown many kinds of cognitive deficits in chronic ketamine users.
MDMA (Ecstasy) - MDMA has been proven to produce damage to serotonin neurons in rats and mice due to oxidative stress and free radical damage. Some have claimed that fMRI evidence demonstrates similar damage in humans, although many have disputed these studies. There have also been several studies showing memory deficits in those who abuse MDMA. Administration of a SSRI such as fluoxetine (Prozac) within 4-6 hours of MDMA use may reduce the risk of damage. The media has hyped MDMA's relationship to dehydration, which can also produce brain damage (see below).
Methamphetamine (speed, meth, ice, way too many Vicks Vapor Inhalers, etc.) - like MDMA, methamphetamine appears to produce oxidative stress, but damages dopamine rather than serotonin neurons. As a result, chronic methamphetamine abusers often show early-onset symptoms of Parkinson's disease and other cognitive deficits. Recent research has shown that prior administration of a free radical scavenger such as N-acetylcysteine can attenuate damage. Like any other stimulant, methamphetamine can also produce stroke (see below).
MPTP - MPTP results from improper synthesis of MPPP, a synthetic opioid. A single dose can result in severe damage to dopamine neurons, producing symptoms resembling those of Parkinson's disease. MPTP is often used to produce animal models of the disease to test new treatments.

Notably absent from this list are marijuana and the 5-HT2A agonist psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, mescaline, etc.). That doesn't mean that these drugs are safe, just that according to the research I was able to find, they are not neurotoxic in and of themselves. On the other hand, there is well-established evidence that these drugs can damage the brain in other ways. Psychedelics can produce HPPD or PTSD, and early-onset marijuana use increases the probability an individual will develop schizophrenia. See PubMed, Erowid, or Wikipedia for more on the effects of drugs."
[/quote
Could you cite your source for marijuana/schizophrenia connection?