11 points in a circle, I know of only 7, what are the other 4? Options

Ok, a "friend" of mine and I were talking about magic and circles, and he brought up the eleven points in a circle. Now, I'm a solitary, not being benefited with a teacher. All of the points I could think up would be the 4 elements, up, down, and the center, for a total of 7. While I know that there are really 360 points in a circle, that's not in a metaphysical sense. He did say he couldn't say anything else, because he's under oath and a 2nd degree person in paganism. But he did say something about the 4 "normal" points being positively aligned, and the other 4 were negatively aligned. I've never heard anything about this before in really anything I've ever experienced, and I was wondering if anyone had any information on it. Is it a valid practice, these 11 points?

Thanks all
Blackstaff

This post has been edited by blackstaff: Sep 29 2005, 01:24 PM

Well, first of all, claiming to be "under oath" due to being a "2nd degree pagan" is, as far as I concerned, a load of dog doo. If I met him, I'd probably end up slapping him across the face, but that's just me.

If he's also claiming that the 4 elements have negative aspects, then so do the other three. Making a total of 14 points, instead of 11. One cannot have one without the other. Some people I know do incorporate the negative aspects of each point, to maintain a recognition of balance, and for certain spells or rites, etc. Majority keep it simple and stick to the 7. And technically, there are 5 elements in the magickal community, your "standard" 4, and Spirit. But alot of people have taken notice that Spirit cannot be named either negative or positive, so with his supposed claims, that only makes 10. With using both polarities, that makes 13.

And then! Point "up" would be only considered postive, for it reaches for the celestial heavens, angels, divas, etc etc...Point "down" would only be considered negative, for it delves into the chaos, the "evil", etc etc...

Thinking out loud, I have come to the solid conclusion that he's completely full of it, and you should disregard what he says as foolish.

Disclaimer: My opinion, not a claim that should be set in stone. And I could have missed some sect or practice that very well might have 11 points. But I've studied paganism/Wicca/Celtic/Witchcraft for alot of years, and NEVER have seen that claim.

Namaste