Salvia Divinorum & Nightshade. Options

I've heard of people smoking Salvia Divinorum for astral projecting..Since I just ordered my ounce of salvia and it wont be here for a while I'd like to here any experiences anyone has had with Salvia. I've heard that Nightshade can also be used for the same purpose. Anyone experimented with these herbs? I'll have my own experience as reference soon, but I'm like my homeboy Jesus..I like to listen lol. Any other experiences with any other herb is welcomed as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif).

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-FIat Lux

Greetings Chris!
Yes, I've had experience with Salvia Divinorum. I found that getting the concentrated forms more productive. Salvia has provided me with some very interesting shamanic interludes. I recommend smoking it in a waterpipe as it can be abit harsh. Use a onehit bowl or use only alittle at a time. Take (and hold) about 4-5 good hits. Use dim lighting, candlelight, firelight or no light when using. This will help with the clarity of the vision. You should feel abit funny in your middle chakra whilst your ajna center opens. Don't try to stand up right away. You may get the giggles. My first time allowed me to make acquaintance with the Divinorum plant...an awesome experience. Thetime of being 'high' is rather short...no more than twenty-thirty minutes. It is not, repeat, not overpowering like DMT. It will give you insight and 'happy' type visions...no bummers...but that is really a very subjective thing. You may...I don't. When you try your subsequent uses, you'll notice that they each require abit more...we acclimatize ourselves to it rather quickly so make sure to give yourself time to 'bounce back'.
Maybe we should start a Salvia experience thread to record individuals progress and look for congrueties...? (duh, I guess we ARE!)
I'll not be so helpful with the Nightshade family. Belladonna, Jimsonweed, Woody Nightshade, Devils Trumpet, Henbane, Tobacco, Tomatoes, Potatoes, Stramonium , etc. The active ingredients in these plants are poisonous alkaloids and are one of the leading cause of death amongst those who are looking for a 'high'...they are very dangerous unless you know just how much dosing a person can tolerate. I've found that they can be painful task masters. Use sparingly, if burning them, use ventillation! The safest use is topical in an ungent/ointment (no, not even with babies fat!) rubbed into the skin at the joints or on the wrists and temples (Eko, eko azarack...) In my youth I made a traditional Witches Flying Ointment...*whooosh* These plants are also used in binding magic/charms as well as for their pharmaceutical uses. Study up! They can give you a mean headache if smoked. Though it should be of note that they work synergistically (and potentiate) the effects of marijuana and hashish, two 'vision inducing' products.....
Well, I've rambled too long but I can give you more nitty gritty's on any number of plants that are used shamanically. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)

Oo...Since I just spent a pretty penny on trident books grand grimoire, I'm not big on the idea of shooting for a pipe. I ordered some rolling papers with my order of the salvia leaves. Do you reccomend maybe putting some calming music in the background, or it being completely silent? Should I have a drink handy since it's a harsh smoke? Any comfortable sitting or lying preffered? lol, I'm trying to make it as calming as possible. I don't want to have a bad experience, then someone walk in, and I throw a knife at 'em lol.. I should be receiving my SD next week, and I'll post my experience, but in the meantime, mind sharing a pleasent SD experience? Pass down some wisdom to the 18 yr old? aha.

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

I haven't tryed any Salvia yet but I do plan on getting some soon and will post my experience. I have been told that, Yes, you sould have some water with you because the smoke can be harsh. And you probably want to concentrate more on your trip then having to go get somthing to drink since the trip can be very short compared to other substances like LSD or Psilosybin.(sp?)

Most people recomend trying the lowest extract you can get (5-10x) as the 25x (or whatever it is) can be too potent to be enjoyable. The leaves aren't very effective since you have to smoke alot to get the intended shaman type visual/mental effects but I have heard of the fresh leaves being chewed with excellent results.

Ya' see...I was going to get the 5x, or 10x extract...But all the sites I went to seemed to be against it if you're a beginner, so I just bought the leaves. That, and I saw this video of a young lady flipping out on just leaves her first time trying salvia, so I figured the dried leaves would be a good place to start off with, and sooner, or later I'll decide if I'd have to move up a notch.

.::Sempre bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

Mind altering substances, legal or not, can be dicey with anyone who is unsure/unfamiliar with what is in their minds. I've seen people have very severe reactions from just smoking some pot. With Salvia, I'd reccomend using the 5X or 10X extraction. Buy or make a pipe. You will save yourself a considerable amount of waste by using a bowl. (Jeez, carve one from a potatoe, modify a soda can, etc.) The fresher the material the better. The active ingredient degrades over time. You can buy live cuttings and grow your own. If you'd like I can supply you with the Ethnobotanical source that I use.
Important Note: Whilst utilizing Salvia, take the trouble to use mood lighting or little light as this can be disruptive. No loud music or immediate noise. Have something to drink (not alcohol). Review my post above. I've been using Salvia on and off for over 10 years. If you are prone to mental problems (hysteria, depression, paranoia, etc.) I do not reccomend that you use ANY psychoactive substance. (or even Magic!)
The experience is similar to (though not the same as) psilocybin...but not as intense or long acting. I am, though, always amazed by people who will overdo the ingestion of anything thinking that alittle is good so a whole lot must be better! WRONG! The trick with most of these substances is to use them as a lift off for your mind, which is really doing the work. The point is to not to become helpless participants in what could be a useful, informative experience.

Sure, the link would be appreciated, but isn't it a bad idea to grow anything indoors? My room, even with the AC on, or window open at below 0 temperature is like an oven, which is why I don't grow my own herbs. bym, is it true that salvia can keep its potency over a long period of time if you keep it in a dark place? I'll try and see what happens with just the dried leaves, and if push comes to shove I'll spring for the 5x, or 10x extract with a nice pipe. Also, I was diagnosed with depression, and paranoia since I was 12, ever since a near death experience, and started being a practitioner of magic just two years later, and I'll tell you this much, I feel better better now than I did those two years in between..As for depression, and paranoia with mind altering substances, I've been twisted of every liquor you can think of (Including absinthe, hey, remember, I just finished high school, I was a partying senior), and I've experimented with pot once, the experience was alright, but it's not my thing, and in NYC where you can get picked up just saying hi to someone who cops may think is a drug dealer, it's too much hassle. lol. Kids! Stay away from illegal drugs! It's a no no!

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

::Exit Note:: bym, I don't know how to make a damn pipe! lol....Well, unless you have a site with some instructions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thankyou.gif)

This post has been edited by SangueDiNapoli: Feb 23 2006, 03:22 AM

LOL!
C'mon...use your imagination in regaeds to the pipe. You're a reasourceful fellow, use your brain!
One link for the Salvia is: http://www.ethnobotany.com/herbs/salvia.html or
http://www.ethnobotany.com/seeds/Seed_f-z.html
I have various reasons for using my/that disclaimer about mental acumen/health and drugs (and magic).
Especially with Magic, one must always be aware of how their mind works and they must know how it reacts with spiritual influences. As long as your clear with yourself you can avoid the standard pitfalls.
With the use of drugs and Magic this is imperative. Some drugs can artificially open (or shut) some the bodies subtle centers and/or make us more/less vulnerable to outside influences. Control being a key word here... True the phrase "In vino veritas..." states that there is truth in wine (use thereof) but there often is little sense or subtlty either. Consider your circumstances then get on with business! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

PS Keep Salvia in a cool, dark and DRY place for storage. If you need to keep int in the refr keep it in sealed plastic with one of those silicon dioxide capsules (found in aspirin bottles) to maintain low humidity. Change this capsule monthly.

This post has been edited by bym: Feb 23 2006, 04:50 PM

This topic came up recently ant Nightshade's forums. People looking for the use of salvia divinorum from an occultist point of view might want to read this:

OBE's with Salvia

See, I knew I should've gotten the 5x, or 10x extract. Oh, I received my salvia leaves! But just to clear things up, it's labeld "Salvia Divinorum incense", but that's just the label, right? That's how it's sold legaly? The bag I have is just of dried leaves. I'll experiment with it as soon as I see a reply to that question, lol.

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

This post has been edited by SangueDiNapoli: Feb 24 2006, 11:23 PM

It's probably the same thing. It's not illegal in any way but they may want to stay on the safe side. The DEA has taken a look at it. The thing I found funny is that there was a Harvard study of it's use among Indian tribes and they said they used it but only if something (Amantia, Peyote) was unavailable, and then only rarely. It will be funny if now that it is becoming popular through the internet if it will be put on the Scheaduled list.

Well, I had bought mine from herbal-SMoke.com. I just don't want to smoke something that's not what it's supposed to be then whind up jumping out of a window (Me and my dramatics, eh?).

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

From my understanding it's kind of a legal loophole. Some difficulties are involved when defining for a specific use that could be drug related. I know that chemical distributers used to sell things like dextromethorphan under the description of research chemicals for a long time to avoid the idea that they were basically drug dealers. The internet pisses me off sometimes, I noticed that site is selling Amantia Muscharia, which means a bunch of kids will probably freak out and it will be made illegal. ce la vie.

This is why I hate disclosing some of my sources... The DEA is watching, always. They are the bloody idiots that tried to illegalize apricot/peach pits when it was discovered that they were a source of Laetrile and Pangamic acid (the former was being used for its anticancer abilities and the latter for its health abilities as being the new vitamen B15)! Yet they allow dangerous NSAIDs, etc. It all depends on who's complaining and how much money they throw around... Grrrrrr!
Salvia is sold as an 'incense' purely to get around the DEA. The same as Butyl Nitrate is sold as 'head cleaner' instead of 'poppers'. Um...oh hell, go look it up!
The leaves are fine (of the Salvia)...it's just that you don't know 1/ how old they are, 2/ the concentration of the alkaloid content. Frankly, putting ANYTHING into your lungs other than air is dicey. Shamanically, I have used alot of different plant allies in my studies....but I do not endorse the recreational use as it demeans my practice and generates more fuel for the DEA. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/badmood.gif)

Calm down Mr.bym reaper, lol. I just wanted to make sure. F.Y.I, I'm aware of what poppers are, I'm German, and they're popular with the German crowd lol (Although I myself only touched the thing twice, I'm not fond of looking like a tomato). I should be posting my salvia 'trip' sometime tonight..Couldn't get my hands on a pipe sooner than next week so instead I just let out some tobbaco in a cigarette and filled it with salvia leaves. We'll see what happens.

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

Lol....First salvia experience...Complete flop...The most I got was a burned throat...And madonn' do those things burn fast...Went through an entire cigarette stuffed in about a minute.

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

Yum nothing like old dry leaves roaring down the lungs. This is what I do and I find it's quite effective. Chew on some like tobacco over a period of time then burn some as incencse while meditating or doing divination.

A good old school charcoal incense burner, like every good Catholic should own (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) and you should be set. I think it needs to be treated as an atmosphere establisher, not a "poof" I'm there. It's just not that kind of herb.

I mainly only use it for suffumigations and even then rarely. See if you like it as an incense. You can grow it fairly easily, legally, and it makes it dirt cheap. Really good for long tarot reading or scrying. If you produce your own and still want to smoke it, it will be much smoother when there is some moisture in it. Even only a few days at the place you got it from and it will get incredibly harsh.

later

I guess I'm not a good catholic because I don't own any! lol, plus, how are those things lit with no fire!? But yeah, it wasn't even the taste because I didn't even go for my drink the entire time, but my throat was on fire. As for growing it, like I said before the only reason I wouldn't is because my room is an oven, and I'm in an apartment building, no yard.

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

The heat is not a bad thing, as long as it's well watered. Within the brass vessel of the burner a small amount of coals or charcoal is placed. You can get little charcoal disks that give off almost no fumes and stay lit. The incense or whatever else is set on top. It's kind of grilling jesus style.

Sidenote: These kick arse if you get real incense rather than stick or cone. Some good aloe and myrrh and you'll never smoke leaves again.

Never smoking leaves again sounds good to me. I'll try it out when I go supply shopping again. I've always used stick incense, never seen anything wrong with it. I'm going to give the salvia another chance in regards to smoking, but this time I'm springing for the extract.

.::Sempre bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

::After Salvia Smoke Attempt #2:: Yeah, I think I definitelt got some bunk leaves or something lol..I think next time I'll go to that salviasupply site, instead of some site with a hippy logo..

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

This post has been edited by SangueDiNapoli: Feb 27 2006, 10:43 AM

Look.....
Burning this stuff on a charcoal burner/brazier will get you more carbon monoxide high than any drug effect. It will give you more of a placebo effect than all else. Use the concentrate, use a water pipe. The active substance is extremely unstable and will degrade over time, sunlight exposure, etc. It definately has an effect! I learned how to use this from a Mexican shaman....but be my guest and use it your way and waste what you have! Oh, btw, smoking mushrooms has absolutely little to no effect!, despite Castenedas lurid description of smoking mushrooms. Psilocin and psilocybin and muscarine are destroyed by heat....faster than THC in marijuana! Eat the mushrooms (or make luke warm tea) and smoke chilled, watercooled smoke for the Salvia. An try to be abit more patient! This is my last post on these subjects. You(all) should be glad! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/goodnight.gif)

I think you are confusing what I am talking about. I'm not saying to burn it and inhale charcoal smoke. The fact that it seems dried out and aged points to the fact that no matter how it's smoked it's not going to be very effective, I'm pointing to a way it could be more useful than compost. When did this become such an emotional topic?

Okay. Read some other threads and see there is a bit of a tie in to other subjects invlolved. Not really interested in an entheogens, magick, and the relationship of them discussion so I'll leave it at that.

This post has been edited by chaoscrowley37: Feb 27 2006, 06:31 PM

No, no, I understood what you meant. I was just posting the effect (Or non-effect rather) from giving the herb another go through smoking it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux

I was referring to bym. I should have used quote button. oh well

CC37, I'm sorry that you got the impression that I was after you or the method for burning incense. My frustration was with Chris and the Salvia use. No excuses for my a**hole sign being lit up...sorry for the misunderstanding. I use a charcoal brazier for all ritual work and it truly is a wonderful thing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sorry_2.gif)

It's all good. To be honest these are sensitive topics which I usually include in my list, along with politics as things that are inappropriate for comment on in public. Sadly, I broke my own rules. I didn't think you were being an arseh*ole, it's one of those classic examples of the Internet not always expressing ideas that well.

Okay.

Salvia Divinorum.

Could member here who acutally have used this tool for stimulating awareness please share some accurate explanations for what exactly the beneficial effect is?

Okay.

Salvia Divinorum.

Could member here who acutally have used this tool for stimulating awareness please share some accurate explanations for what exactly the beneficial effect is?

Salvia divinorum, when smoked as an extract - I'll agre with Bym here, the leaves have NEVER managed to get me anywhere; actually, i believe something like sixty fresh leaves were chewed by the mexican shamans - has always given me a sense of weightlessness which can be incredibly disorienting if you try to stand up, walk around, etc.

I've had two really intense salvia trips using 20x extract. It should be noted that these experience are VERY briefly paraphrased, because salvia trips occur in more than the standard 4 dimensions of perception. Freaky freaky.

The first trip, three deep hits from a water pipe, started out by giving me a sensation of pins and needles all over my skin. Not an unpleasant tingling, although it did have a peak intensity in which I really thought I might need to scratch every inch of my body intently.. resisting the urge, however, I laid back onto my pile of cushions and watched the shadows from the candle light play over my walls, altar, etc. almost as soon as I turned my attention from my body, I felt like I was slipping sideways, specifically to the left, and actually, visually, saw the room change angle with me. I was instantly out of body. After that I looked intently at my altar and found that there was a kind of 'tear' in the structure of it. So, I moved forward into the altar, and through the tear, and found myself in a long, long hallway with many doors of all sorts of different decorations, shapes, sizes, symbols, and sensations. I managed to examine three doors before I felt the call back to my body, and the end of the trip. They were all large doors with words written on them in some kind of dream language that was more like writing with a collection of sensory details than an alphabet. Hard to accurately convey. Each of the doors turned out to be entrances to three different aspects of my magickal persona (worth noting that I did this first trip with the intention of understanding magick more thoroughly, it's practice, origin, purpose, etc.). The whole thing took maybe an hour of 'dreamtime' - popped back into my body, it was a five minute trip.

Second trip, five deep hits, and this time I didn't actually 'leave' my body in the manner before, but rather the world around me just melted into another dimension. Probably the astral, but far more intense and alien than I have experienced on my own. I can't even describe it other than to say that the origins, and future states, of everything around me, kind of piled up so that I was experiencing non-linear time in my immediate environment. From inbetween all of that, I met an entity who constituted the concept of emotional expression. Our conversation was private and took place, again, in many extra dimensions, but that was the night that I overcame the brunt of my emotional baggage and finally started to feel. It was intense.

While mushroom trips have been more intense, longer, and less phsyically debilitating, I have found that Salvia trips, both time, have been more constructive and powerful. Salvia will seriously bend time, and reality, completely out of context. The average trip is very fast in linear time. Five to ten minutes, tops. If you can surrender to the experience, you can spend hours in between dimensions before coming back.

SanqueDiNapoli, if you're interested still, I have some extract that I don't intend on using anytime soon. I live in NYC as well, I'd be happy to give it to you.

peace

Sounds like a trip (Pardon the Pun). I appreciate the offer, but I recently placed an order for some 10X extract from IAMSHAMAN. You can call me Chris, by the way. SangueDiNapoli is long even for me to type. lol.

.::Sempre Bene::..::Chris::.
-Fiat Lux.