wand or staff, ? Options

do they use the same way or is one better than the other? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

IMO, that will dependent entirely on your preference and your working. It is the representation of your will.

Either 1 is fine as long as u like it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Wands are better for small places and easier to store. It boils down to what you like and how much room you have.

Yes, they virtually have the same use. There is a slight difference between then, however:

Staves (plural of Staff) are usually wooden rods the length of a cane or a walking stick or longer. They can be used as just walking sticks, and as a repository of magickal energy to aid in spellwork. Some think of the staff as a large wand while others feel that it is a separate kind of tool altogether. The staff is one of only two common tools which is supposed to touch the ground in normal use (the altar is the other).

The Wand is a consecrated short stick used to store and/or manipulate energies and possibily to store spells. It can symbolize either the Fire or the Air element (depending on your tradition). It can be made from any material such as wood, glass, crystal, plastic, metal, et cetera. It can be plain or fancy with pain, inscriptions, crystals, feathers, beads, or other decorations. Some traditions use a wand in situations were it would be inappropriate to use a blade.

thanks Rin. the definitions helped a lot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ok.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Some groups and traditios have slightly different meaning between the wand and the staff, but usualy, it is the same thing only bigger or smaler. Not like the dagger and the sword that have different meaning in many pepole`s wiewpoint.

I prefere the staff because its multi-functional. Its great for hiking, reaching far places, stiring a camp fire, magick and self defense. Both wands and staves corespond to fire. Both can be made from all natrual wood found in your back yard. I suppose the typical material is oak. The type of wood can be determined to make a wand or staff for a specific purpose. Both are aspects of masculine. You can carve symbols into either to consecrate it. You can even carve a slot for a stone or gem. Point being staves and wands can both be very useful tools. Both have there pros and cons. If neither seem to cater to you perhaps a mace would be an alternitive.

the biggest difference between wands and staves as far as i have seen is the same as between swords and athames. Basically the larger is mostly used by groups, the smaller is often used by individuals, whether part of a group or not. and i agree, it does depend mostly on your own personal preferences.
If you are a solitary practitioner, go ahead and use the staff, if you would like.

I like the staff better than the wand... because sometimes I have to pick up the stick and beat something up with it... (I need a sword, too...)

I don't know... maybe it's because I like the fact that if something goes "wrong," (Summoning a dark demonic spirit on accident...) That I have the option of beating the snot out of it at the time being...

This post has been edited by mediocracy: Jun 20 2005, 10:55 AM

I also prefer the staff to the wand. It's easier to defend one's self against an agressor with a bigger stick than with a smaller one, in my opinion. Of course such is not the intended purpose, but I tend to think in terms of "just in case."

I have a wand i bought in glastonbury but i dont know how to consecrate it.

There are many techniques. But consecrating just means you recognize the tool as magickal. How I consecrate my tools is meditate with them. I allow my mind to feel the tool and expereince the flow of energy through it. I will then contemplate with it but looking over it repeatedly and seeing every mark and scratch or water mark and so on. Once I know my tool like the back of hand then I recognize it as magickal. For a staff I will wet it in a river then evaporate the water in a camp fire. this is done similarly to the meditation only with the addition of fire. One must be gentle with the staff and not expose it too much or too directly to fire. Though burn marks can be artisitic this is not random. The way I do this is not random there for my creative intention is imprinted on the wood through fire, burn marks or not.

Dont forget Stangs. These are staves with a forked top. They can be used like a staff but they serve the addes purpose of being used as an actual altar by themselves. You plant them in the ground and hang ritual things on the forks and use this as the center point of your circle. i have one with an antler on top as the fork, great for when you have to hike a long way and you want to travel light.

I am a newbie, & still am trying to learn more about witchcraft before trying it. But i think the staff is better than a wand (more protection as everyone else has been saying, & i think it is more cooler). But i don't know where to get one, it will be really helpful, if someone tells me where i could get one. I live in Asia, so i would prefer to buy online. I even saw a site, where they manufacture & sell wands, but they didn't look real. Where can i get real ones.

Plz pm me, thanx in advance.

This post has been edited by Vishwas: Oct 31 2005, 05:40 AM

Greetings!
The best ones are the ones that we make ourselves. All of my wands are handmade and the same with the staves. Good luck!

Dont forget Stangs. These are staves with a forked top. They can be used like a staff but they serve the addes purpose of being used as an actual altar by themselves. You plant them in the ground and hang ritual things on the forks and use this as the center point of your circle. i have one with an antler on top as the fork, great for when you have to hike a long way and you want to travel light.

I make all my tools, my first one was a Stang, because it is such a good all around tool. It is your athame, wand and alter, all in one convenient tool.

For casting I made an athame, and for working spells and for meditation I use a wand. My sunsign is Cancer so I am ruled by the moon more than most. I made my wand out of a Willow branch from the first home my wife and I had together, I then carved the tip so it could hold this triangular moonstone I had. The wand has 3 moonstones attached with silver wire and pine sap, to the willow wood. All these materials are moon materials so this wand has much signifagance for me.

Having a Stang for nature and a Wand for home is the way to go IMO.

The stang was, I think, originally an instrument to catch snakes.

Which is rather fitting, with the symbollic connection of snakes with the astral.


This may be a very generous request in the witchcraft forums, but could we sometimes use a little less w--can (i dont want to name it) terminology?

The idea behind it being "knife sounds too damn ordinary, lets use an old french word and make it sound cooler and call it athame", it truly makes ones blood boil.

Of note, steel knives of the CM-ripoff athameish shape and design were unheard off in ancient celtic culture.

Heres a taste of actual celtic knives:

(IMG:http://drakkaria.com/obchod/fotky/079b.jpg)

(IMG:http://drakkaria.com/obchod/fotky/105b.jpg)

The first one is guessed to be a ritual instrument (due to a very uncommon unique design).
The other is basically a kitchen knife (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The stang was, I think, originally an instrument to catch snakes.

Which is rather fitting, with the symbollic connection of snakes with the astral.


This may be a very generous request in the witchcraft forums, but could we sometimes use a little less w--can (i dont want to name it) terminology?

The idea behind it being "knife sounds too damn ordinary, lets use an old french word and make it sound cooler and call it athame", it truly makes ones blood boil.

Of note, steel knives of the CM-ripoff athameish shape and design were unheard off in ancient celtic culture.

Heres a taste of actual celtic knives:



The first one is guessed to be a ritual instrument (due to a very uncommon unique design).
The other is basically a kitchen knife (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

First I do believe stang is a word for pole. They were more than likely early pitchfork, I feel they are like a swiss army knife for energy focus, without having to carry an athame, wand, and alter. Mine is made of an Ash tree and has a natural fork at the top and is very much a reminder of the Greenman for me.

Second I made my own Athame,(blade handle the whole works) and can call it anything I want ot call it. I dont care if you put negative spin on something that is discriptive. I call it an athame because it is used only in magick for evoking/invoking, and not for slicing vegatibles!

Of note, steel knives of the CM-ripoff athameish shape and design were unheard off in ancient celtic culture.

I dont think it was a rip off of any kind, my magick in itself is a culmination of different ideas. Here is an ancient Celtic athame!

LINK

~ I have to change your image into a link since it's breaking our forum template. Please mind the image size posting limit. Alternatively, if you attached the image, the forum software will auto-resize it for you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ~Kinjo

This post has been edited by | Kinjo: Feb 1 2006, 11:03 AM

Second I made my own Athame,(blade handle the whole works) and can call it anything I want ot call it. I dont care if you put negative spin on something that is discriptive. I call it an athame because it is used only in magick for evoking/invoking, and not for slicing vegatibles!

I think its great that you made your own rather than getting a tasteless store-bought one like most people.

You can, of course, call it whatever you like. My objection to w-ccan terminology is that it has, in many cases, been designed solely to project a halo image around a thing. Now, the feeling of other-ishness and sanctity is exactly the point of ritual instruments.
However, the ancient Celts, if we desire to base our practice on them, definitely called it something else, and I suspect the word "athame" was brought in precisely for all the wrong reasons (it is the cold blade counterpart of a person with too much black makeup).

In other words, my objection is not to the word being descriptive, but to the way it is descriptive. "Ceremonial dagger" is descriptive. Athame means "knife" in old french, and, ironically, is descriptive of a vegetable-cutting instrument.

The image you have attached is, to me as an amateur celtologist, absolutely beautiful. Theres even the strap buckle preserved.
However, it appears to be of a military rather than ritual design.
I am afraid the word "athame" was unknown to ancient Celts, and thus calling a shortsword "athame" is inaccurate at the very least.

Greetings!
I would like this discussion to stay on track...we are discussing wands or staves.
Rakesh, would you care to open a thread dealing with the use of the word athame to describe ritual knives and take this discussion there? Or, perhaps, the Wiccan use of terminology to describe their accoutrements? -MOD SQUAD (IMG:style_emoticons/default/butcher.gif)

whether store-bought or handmade, a wand or staff should be named and initiated into your own particlular tradition and is not just a stupid tool but becomes at the initiation a full-fledged entity with its own mind, body and spirit - it should have a say in all matters that involve it and should also be consulted as a trusted friend and performs as another person in the ritual, and not necessarily as an assistant.

E.

Does anyone know if there is a difference and if so a particular name assigned to the staves many ancient people used like the Jewish?

The only thing I can say in particular distinction about these is that they have a slanted head or top at about a 45 degree angle.

I can see myself using both, infact I'm working on 2 staves. (and wands but that was preivously stated in other thread)
I'm still playing with the designs in my head abit before I get to carving ect, because such large wood was hard to come by in my area.

Well, I prefer a hand-crafted wand myself. Try carving a wand out of a good stick of wood and put some gems on it or something of the sort. Works like a charm. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wandwizard.gif)

Yes it does get the job done in a manner of speaking.

I have both a wand and staff as are both used on a regular basis. Either one can be very effective in dealing with the "uninvited." One just has to have to the confidence in themselves.

As somone pinted out the Staff touches the ground.
Traditions differ but there is still symbology beyond personal to be considered.

The Staff is often seen as the world tree just like the spear of Odin.
It, like the Stang can be placed in the ground as an Altar (but then, so can any object).

The Wand is usually seen as a torch or a phallic symbol pertaining to fire.
However some traditions of Wicca see it as the Caduceus of Hermes and thus Air.
Question is ofcourse if this is not Hermes (Air) wielding Fire.
The Caduceus , however is a symbol of utmost balance.

(IMG:http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/ErosAgape/scaduceus.jpg)

The Dagger thus is usually seen as Air seeing as a knife cuts up and divides just as reason does (it IS a weopon though, if double edged so it could be discussed). However some Wiccan traditions see it as "aggresive" and thus Fire.

The Sword in Tarot is Air, but on a higher level couses more division.
It is often ascribed to Spirit as is the "Egg girt with a serpent"
(IMG:http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e2/ErosAgape/sorphic.jpg)

It is however also a weopon and thus very naturaly ascribed to Mars.
Especially a burning one (Arch Angel Michael).

The stang is Horned and as such should come to reprecent the Horned God.
Astrologicly it should be ascribet to Luna, the moon since its phallic like all horns and antlers (fight for females).
Hornes where used for insemination ones some claim.

These opinions are made from a Kabbalist/ Hermetic. Your world view might differ and with it its symbology.
Also there´s a thing with personal symbols ("It is not ONLY a knife, its my grandads old knife, so it cuts down to the kingdom of ancestors as well
and links me to them" or "I found this stick at my old schoolyard. It is a wand of learning potential").

Also, blending symbology is sometimes done. The Golden Dawn has a "Lotus Wand". A Wans covered in Watery flowers
to get Water in Fire.


Let the symbols talk to you on a personal level together with study.
You will learn more about the usefulness of it as you use it.

This post has been edited by Khenti_Amenti: Jun 5 2006, 06:27 AM

Well I prefer a Wand it is easier to wield. in some forms of the craft the staff is used as grounding tool i.e. Scotish witchcragft often uses a staff this way. However the wand is always a repsentation of your own true will.

do they use the same way or is one better than the other? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I use a dogwood staff that I made when I was 13 <19 years ago> for exorcisims and astral hunting of demons. The staff provides a great deal of protection as well as a means of attack for a sorcerer such as my self.

I do not use wands. However I do use knives and a sword of calling. These are held over head during invocations, conjurations and spirit summoning. It helps my focus and channeling of energy. I suppose a wiccan might use a wand. Or perhaps an athame.

As a tool a dagger and wand I think can serve many simular functions.

In my opinion the staff is much more powerful in astral combat than a knife or sword. I do not use a wand so I will refrain from making a comparasion there.

Peace.

This post has been edited by smasher666: Jun 11 2006, 02:50 AM