Speed Induced "hallucinations" Options

Now I know that everybody who has experienced "hallucinations" from staying up days on methamphetamine will almost always put it down to speed induced psychosis but after having a very lifelike conversation with a voice in after 3 days of sleep deprivation and lack of food im starting to question how imaginary these so called hallucinations really are.

Im interested in hearing opinions on the subject from occultists. I had no idea what psionics were until I had this experience. The voice talked about all sorts of things but at one point it said "Seeing as your more in tune with this dimension where deceased people reside, I can send you psionic frequencies". Also the voice asked me if it was my first psychedelic encounter.

Another very strange detail was the fact that after the voice told me it was going to give me a wet willy I actually felt a cold finger poke me in the back. It either felt like a cold finger or cold water seeping through my t-shirt.

Alot of very strange and unexplainable things happened. The voice seemed hellbent on convincing me I was dead too. It wanted me to face a certain direction and I noticed when I did the voice would get louder and more intense. At one point the voice said "Now that I have his undivided attention, I concentrate on his frontal lobe". I felt hands on each side of my face after that.

Something fairly strange that happened was after the voice told me I was going to get carpol tunnel syndrome my hands went ice cold and started sweating excessively for no logical reason.

Should I just assume it was my subconscious speaking to me or was there something else involved? The reason I posted in the psionics forum is because of that statement it made about psionic frequencies. I might have heard about psionics but I didnt know exactly what it was at the time.

Also I should mention my dads an occultist and this voice claimed to be him on numerous occasions. Also the voice repeated things my father had said to me years ago which I had completely forgotten.

Im not sure exactly what my old mans into but Ive heard him speak about Thelema and Aleister Crowley a few times.

Another thing I have a vivid memory of my dad talking about astral travelling and having to ability to poke people in the physical realm and they actually feel it. Weirdly enough when I asked him about it after this experience he denies ever having said that.

Greetings Xochipilli',

Bro I feel for you but this crap is all in your mind. You are tripping. U need to dry up. Detox. So you can come back down to Earth before you do something stupid. If U have been geeked up for 3 days and you are hearing voices then I do not care how you want to paint it you are having drug induced psychosis bro. 3 days snorting? How is your nose? Is it even working? Flush that crap down the toilet bro and call someone you trust and tell them your situation. You need to tell someone you trust that you are hearing voices etc and that you need a temporary babysitter. If you quit the speed for 3 days and you are still hearing voices then its time to go talk to a Psychiatrist who will put you on some medicine to settle you down. Life is short bro. Straighten your ass up!
You need to quit speed forever. If you keep it up you will form a permanent psychosis. It will never go away and you will spend a good part of your life in a mental hospital.

I hope you make it out of this in one piece.

May the Gods watch over you!

This post has been edited by smasher666: Dec 1 2006, 04:37 AM

While I do have to agree with Smasher on this about getting cleaned up, I have to say also that your experience wasn't necessarily totally in your head.

I have a friend who's little sister has childhood schizophrenia. She's not always talking to voices and whatnot, but in the times that she has had an 'aside' during a conversation with her to someone you can't see, you can tell how different reality is from behind her eyes. She's like, paint with toothpaste, hide meatballs under her pillow, chew on tissue paper crazy.

But, none the less, occasionally some of these voices tell her things that she couldn't have learned on her own. She knew when my friend lost her virginity because one of the voices laughed at her and told her that her sister had gotten laid finally, but she never would - she was angry at her for days before my friend actually told her, with some amazement, that she had had sex for the first time, but hadn't told anyone, including their parents.

Another time when I spent the night over there, she asked me who my boyfriend was, and told me he was an a$%*#!*. She hadn't met him, nor could she have known that I had been dating anyone, because I had just met him and hadn't brought him over, or talked about him around either her or her parents. When I asked how she knew, she said 'Someone Told me.' He did turn out to be an a$%*#!*.

My point is, just because your crazy, doesn't mean the voices you're hearing are necessarily always 'false'. Who knows what else that schizophrenic girl knows because of what 'they' told her. And she doesn't just hear voices, she's batshit crazy.

Speed is no way to attain this sort of thing, if it was real, every time. But, maybe as a focus for getting clean - and by all means, do whatever you want, its your life - building up that experience naturally may open up a whole new dimension of consciousness for you. Try and remember the sensations in your head and 'inhabiting' the experience while you're sober, or perhaps just sleep deprived (and sober).

Peace, and good luck, man. I too hope you come out all right, i've seen lots of people lose their sanity over one form of speed or another.

peace

Dude, Methamphetamine is NOT the way to go. Trust me. I have never tried it, never wanted to, because I've seen the havoc it wreaks in people's lives. It may seem an easy way to kick open the doors, but it's not. It will destroy you.

Self-discipline and study are really the ways to go. Yes, they're longer, and they require work, but you'll reap a lot of non-magical rewards along the way, not to mention having a much calmer and less drama-filled life. And your internal organs will thank you for not burning them out by age 30.

I'm with the others in that drug-induced hallucinations are not necessarily false, nor are the entities non-existent. Like anything else you have to consider the source and then test the information that you've been given. It may take a while, and this is where the self-discipline thing comes in.

As for my own history, I've never tried any street drug for any reason. Never had an interest in them, which is a good thing--I'm on a small pharmacy to keep me alive, but they're all immunosuppressants/anti-inflammatories, not psychotropics. I've never wanted to test my liver's limits though, so I do what the doc tells me.

I will occasionally use alcohol in ritual or magical use, though. I've found concentrating on a question for a while, drinking just enough to make me sleepy, and still concentrating on the question as I drift off will often help me solve the problem at hand. Usually I wake up with a clear answer, sometimes it takes a couple days. And occasionally I'll just offer wine or sake on my altar, or pour a cup outside on the ground to honour the gods.

For basic techniques, browse the forums. A lot of us will be happy to help you.

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Dec 1 2006, 12:49 PM

I'm way ahead of youz. I had intended that to be my last drug binge before I quit the drugs altogether for about 6 months. Thats why I went took it to the extreme. Maybe I went a little overboard. I started the session off by drinking a bottle of methadone so I didnt even get much sleep the night before starting the speed. If I include that then id been up for 3 and a half days at least.

Also I wasnt snorting the stuff I was dropping pills. Well chewing them up to get the most outta them. I have never had a psychotic episode before but then again this was my record for staying up on speed. Also I was horsing weed into me the whole night. Not to mention the speed was laced with PCP. That probably contributed to the psychosis.

Thats what im talking about dreamer. The voice would literally answer every question I asked it and it had smart answers too. The voice was literally more quick witted than me. It would say things that took me a few minutes to figure out then id realize it made complete sense.

The voice went away on its own. At around 6 in the morning the voice kept saying "Youve got 5 minutes to get outta the house or im coming to kill you". At that point I wasnt the slightest bit scared anymore so Id reply "f%*! off im not going anyway" and when it threatened to kill me id say "What are you gonna do wet willy me to death?"

The last thing I heard the voice say was "Im impressed" and that was that. Although it left on a good note it still left me with a really bad feeling in my stomach. Then again the 3 day drug binge probably had alot to do with that.

Anyway Ive quit everything cold turkey now I havent even smoked a joint in 5 days. Im planning on going about 6 months dry. Im gonna do this again sometime in the future and if the voice comes back I'll ask it questions I couldnt possibly know and write everything down.

Funnily enough the voice started off the converstation by telling me to get a pen and paper and write down what it was saying. When I told it I didnt have a pen it got angry and said "f%*! it I'll write it down then" and then I said send me an email and it replied "Yeah google" at that moment I didnt know what it meant by google but then I remembered I had a gmail account. I was disappointed that the email never came though. I thought I was gonna have some proof of a paranormal encounter.

Heh. Spirits, esp. low-level ones, like to play pranks like that. See if you can voluntarily enter a trance state (scrying helps) and see if you can communicate with it w/out drugs. If you can, that'd be cool. If it's hostile, you're the one with the power to kick it out. In any case, thanks for sharing your experience.

I agree with you on that darkmage. Drugs like speed do seem like an easy way to alter your consciousness so that you can use parts of your mind you dont usually use but they dont say under the "influence" for nothing. There are alot of other factors involved when taking drugs. Its as if theres an external influence.

Drugs are just the easy way to go. People with the strength and determination can reach these altered states of consciousness through meditation and other natural methods and at the same time they dont have to deal with these external influences.

On the other hand seeing as youve never tried them I really recommend you try cannabis and mushrooms at least once. Id say youll be pleasantly surprised the effects they have on you. Especially with a strong mind such as yours. If your minds strong enough to alter your consciousness and practice magick without drugs then its definately strong enough to handle psychedelics without any negative effects.

When people speak of psychedelics being dangerous theyre right. But theyre only dangerous for people with unprepared minds. When I take psychedelics they only benefit me because my minds prepared and strong enough to deal with bad trips and negative influences. I can literally trip in the darkest, filthiest, most unpleasant places and still direct my trip into a positive one. Nobody else I know can do that. I think I have a naturally strong mind. Im only just getting into magick but I think I have the right mind for it.

Although that psychotic episode would contradict everything I just said about me having a strong mind.

This post has been edited by Xochipilli: Dec 1 2006, 01:12 PM

I've never been able to except the notion that you can get a lot higher without drugs then with them. But meth was made by the evil one himself, I have seen it ruin a lot of lives and almost ruined mine years ago. I know a guy who was up on a meth binge for a week and was hearing voices like you were and thought it would be a good idea to kill his girlfriend. Needless to say he is in jail for a very long time, and can barely remember killing her or why he did it..

This post has been edited by distillate: Dec 1 2006, 01:18 PM

If it was a spirit it definately was trying to scare me. The first threat was "Rivers are gonna run red with your blood" I found that more funny than scary but I replied to it by saying "Ive never hurt anyone and never would" the voice seemed surprised and said "No? I didnt think so, Ive stabbed 3 people and will do it again if I have to"

The voice kept saying "Just pack your bags and leave your dead already" and "I should take revenge after what you did to me" also it kept saying "Yeah your definately dead" and "Yeah we're definately deceased" meaning I had died. At one point I actually believed I had died of a speed overdose.

Heres a real weird detail I forgot to mention. One point the voice was saying "Whos that coming in your window" and "4 people trying to get into the bed, thats not gonna work" then I felt some tingling on my balls (that happens the odd time when I take ecstasy but never speed) and the voice said "Erica just wants to lick ya"

I found that unbelievably weird because I've never known any Erica's or even Eric's for that matter. Where the hell did that name come from. Thats when I thought my house might be haunted and the ghosts were trying to get me out by saying "Pack your bags and leave" also it said "Do you understand the message?" when Id say what message it replied "Go back to Ireland (my home country) and never come back.

Strange shit to say the least.

Heh. Thanx for the suggestion and the kind words, but as for the weed thing, I'm asthmatic. Smoking crap just doesn't fly unless I also want a trip to the ER along with the Magical Mystery Tour. Shrooms, no thanx. Alcohol acts as a disassociative with me, so...besides, I like morel mushrooms glazed in a nice white wine sauce over duck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And on pizza, and in chicken cacciatore, and in Chinese food, etc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Using them as something other than a gourmet food seems, well, sacreligious to me.

As for the strong mind, you're right, up to a point. Extended use of psychoactive drugs can rewire your brain in unexpected ways. If you're say, bipolar, and not wired right to begin with, that may be a good thing. If you're normal, that may not be so good.

The problem with methamphetamine is that it destroys the pleasure centre in the brain by unloading so much dopamine into it the brain short-circuits itself. If it's occasional use, that damage will heal--usually. But that takes time. Some people go clinically psychotic and have CNS damage after just one use. That's not a risk I'd like to take. And a lot of the hard crap is illegal because it's very dangerous, but that was discussed elsewhere on this board.

I like to gamble, but I'll stick to Powerball for the time being. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And exercise and the self-discipline that goes along with *real* attainment strengthens your mind further. Crowley may have done future generations a real service with magic (despite my personal feelings about him, I'd probably have kicked his ass for being a wanker), but in the end he destroyed himself. Let that be an object lesson for us all.

Edit: damn when people post at the same time. That spirit doesn't seem like a particularly helpful or positive one. I'd make a sigil of its name (if known) and open up a Solomonic Can O'Whupass on him.

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Dec 1 2006, 01:30 PM

As malicious and insulting as the voice was it actually gave me some good advice. It said "It costs money but I suggest going to a psychologist" also it told me it purged its soul in South America once and recommended I do the same.

The thing is though I've been into shamanism for a long time and I know alot about Ayahuasca or "La Purga" so my mind could have easily relayed that information.

You say your asthmatic what kind of medicines have you tried to cure it? I had severe asthma as a kid, I nearly died a few times from acute asthma attacks. I know all to well what its like speeding to the hospital nearly fainting from trying to breath so hard and puking up all the swallowed phlem every 5 minutes.

The doctors told me it was uncurable and they gave me all these inhalers which did absolutely nothing for me. I had it up until I was about 10 when I started going to an alternative chinese herbal healer. Insanely enough after a few months of taking these little black balls she gave me my asthma completely disappeared and never came back. On the contrary I havent even had a cough in years. My lungs are stronger than your average persons nowadays.

Have you tried any of these herbal healers? Also you wont like the idea if your anti drugs but theres a plant called Datura stramonium (Jimsonweed) which when smoked is supposed to relieve the effects of asthma and can counter asthma attacks.

Just dont take too much seeing as it induces toxic delirium and in larger doses will kill you.

This post has been edited by Xochipilli: Dec 1 2006, 01:47 PM

And exercise and the self-discipline that goes along with *real* attainment strengthens your mind further. Crowley may have done future generations a real service with magic (despite my personal feelings about him, I'd probably have kicked his ass for being a wanker), but in the end he destroyed himself. Let that be an object lesson for us all.

Yes there is something to be said for that. It reminds me of the story of the infamous Harvard psychologist Richard Alpert.

He journeyed to the East to look for holy men who could offer him insight into the LSD experience. He found several who were willing to take the drug. One told him him it was good, but not as good as meditation. Another, a Tibetan lama, complained that it only gave him a headache. One holy man from the foothills of the Himalayas reaction fascinated him. The man was over 60 so he at first he tried to give him a low dose of 50 to 60 micrograms, but the man wanted the 305 microgram dose. He gave the man the 305 microgram pill, the man was not satisfied and asked for another and another and placed all 915 micrograms of LSD on his tounge, a massive dose by any standard.

Alpert expected the man to flip out start waving his arms and whopping like a banshee, but instead he behaved as if nothing had happened. He remained that way the rest of the day, the LSD seemed to have little or no effect on him. Alpert was so moved by the experience he gave up LSD, changed his name to Ram Dass, and converted to mysticism.

"Go back to Ireland and never come back."

I got that same message from a spirit sunday. That blows my mind.

I got that same message from a spirit sunday. That blows my mind.

Maybe there's an anti-irish spirit roaming the astral tormenting people. Maybe he's english.

A note on the nature of spirits though, it's often hard to judge the nature, good or evil or in between, from an external point of view. True, we consider classically 'good' spirits to be benevolent and kind-natured, encouraging and patient. But, the spirits I have oft tracked down for magickal advice have put me through psychological trials that sound similar to what our drug induced example shows. On reflection in the past, I had always afterwards needed to basically 'reorganize' my thoughts afterwards to purge any leftover 'psychosis'. I thought that perhaps some spirits, for whatever reason, need to 'shake you' a bit to make sure you can handle what they have to teach you.

Once I called for a spirit during a sort of 'open conjuration/astral jaunt', to help me understand the mechanics of telekinesis. He suggested all sorts of terrible uses of the ability once it is advanced, long before discussing the details of how to make it work in my brain. He seemed snide, and even malicious, and each time he displayed a new possibility that amounted to a psychic ego-stroke, I had to put us back on subject until finally he got down to business as though we were already familiar. Afterwards, while practicing, i would occasionally get sidetracked mentally into some daydream of power, and have to refocus my attention and assert to myself that that was not what I wanted this ability for. Each time i did, while it was going on, I'd get a sense that this same spirit was somewhere chuckling at his joke.

Strange stuff happens, and it's different for everyone. I think that a strong mind is simply defended against hidden influences, and adept at countering against blatant influences. Achieving expanded awareness or heightened consciousness is about efficiency of energy - mental dexterity, if you will. That's why even people with weak minds can reach heightened states with drugs, but when they do they flip out. A strong mind can stand its ground, a weak mind will cave under the influence.

Of course it's not anyone's place to judge drug use in others, but I do think that planning a six month reunion is kind of selfdefeating, ultimately. Speaking of shamanism, drugs are traditionally only the first aspect of the mastery of awareness and consciousness that they attain. After a time, such tools as ayahuasca are rarely employed by the more experienced shamans - they learned those paths with their earlier experiences, and then travelled them on your own. Someone said earlier that you can't get as 'high' with meditation as you can with drugs. Thing is, drugs are a physical tool, which create a physical reaction, which in turn promotes an energetic and thus mental effect. So, there is a physical high that comes with most drugs, and that's what you will get 'more of' with drugs than meditation. When it comes to the altered states though, I thoroughly disagree - there are states of consciousness not yet attainable with drugs for whatever reason. And it's possible that consciousness can sustain far more change of environment than the body can - reaching some states of consciousness by using bodily means like drugs might kill your physical body, when you're mind would have been only a little stressed by going there 'naturally'.

After you've learned how to use your mind in the way you were able to on drugs, the only excuse for doing them is fun. And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you're honest with yourself. One lie begets another...

peace

aside: distillate, do you know of any books on that experience published by Richard Alpert, that sounds fascinating!

Well I was pretty blasted Sunday when I got that message. Funny thing is I never got that before. I chalked up to my subconscious mind making fun of me for drinking so much. But maybe it is a english spirit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I got that story from the book The Holographic Universe, which I highly recomend to anyone. I haven't read anything by Richard Alpert yet.

I came to the conclusion that such drugs as DMT can be used to see different astral realms and have life changing effects on the individual. Although I wouldn't recomend it to everyone. I have seen people coworing in a corner screaming jibberish after taking it. Which is why it is always said to use it with a trained shaman. Terrence mckenna wrote alot of interesting articles and gave alot of interesting talks on DMT.

As malicious and insulting as the voice was it actually gave me some good advice. It said "It costs money but I suggest going to a psychologist" also it told me it purged its soul in South America once and recommended I do the same.

The thing is though I've been into shamanism for a long time and I know alot about Ayahuasca or "La Purga" so my mind could have easily relayed that information.

I have actually traveled throughout the Amazon and have met with several Quechua Shamans and tried real Ayahuasca…not the spirit journey bullshit that drives tourists by the dozen, but the authentic medicinal substance used to cure illness. La purga, well yes it is my friend, that stuff purges you clean (from both ends if you catch my drift) but it is not detox which is clearly what you need. If I am reading your posts correctly, though you claim you are clean you have only made a 6 month commitment .Take Smasher’s advice here “straighten your life up”, then if you are still interested in the Ayahuasca journey contact me and I can give you further advice including the names and locations of villages with practicing Shamans. For your own good do not go off on one of those New Age spiritual retreats, they are first and foremost a business and whatever they give you it is not Ayahuasca. Even if they claim they have authentic ayahuasca, if it’s advertised on the web it is not real… simple as that.

It seems to me that you are interested in exploring the ritual side of drug use – as evident among other things in the name you have chosen for this forum. As posted by distillate, this indeed can be a very effective and powerful experience when done in the proper context with a shaman who has the cumulative knowledge of generations. However, tweeking for three days straight is not the proper context. Despite the possibilities that spirits, etc. may have contacted you during this drug induced experience you ought to put it in context with your mental state at the time and not take anything too seriously. Chances are the devil did not speak to you but it was the speed talking…and then again, maybe speed is the devil.

remember that addication is not fun, and withdrawl is worse.

Its not the meth its the lack of food and sleep. Meth is by no means a hallucinigenic. By the way purity is the best means to any esoteric work.

As malicious and insulting as the voice was it actually gave me some good advice. It said "It costs money but I suggest going to a psychologist" also it told me it purged its soul in South America once and recommended I do the same.

The thing is though I've been into shamanism for a long time and I know alot about Ayahuasca or "La Purga" so my mind could have easily relayed that information.

You say your asthmatic what kind of medicines have you tried to cure it? I had severe asthma as a kid, I nearly died a few times from acute asthma attacks. I know all to well what its like speeding to the hospital nearly fainting from trying to breath so hard and puking up all the swallowed phlem every 5 minutes.

The doctors told me it was uncurable and they gave me all these inhalers which did absolutely nothing for me. I had it up until I was about 10 when I started going to an alternative chinese herbal healer. Insanely enough after a few months of taking these little black balls she gave me my asthma completely disappeared and never came back. On the contrary I havent even had a cough in years. My lungs are stronger than your average persons nowadays.

Have you tried any of these herbal healers? Also you wont like the idea if your anti drugs but theres a plant called Datura stramonium (Jimsonweed) which when smoked is supposed to relieve the effects of asthma and can counter asthma attacks.

Just dont take too much seeing as it induces toxic delirium and in larger doses will kill you.

Damn... I've had mine since birth, although I didn't have a doctor who was on the ball enough to recognise it for what it was until I was 25. He made it quite clear I was very lucky to still be alive, based on my lab work.

If alternative medicine works for you, great. I'm on every drug in the book for it, and they give me prednisone when it rains as I can't stand humidity at all. Good thing I live where I do. Anyway, herbalism won't work for me. How do I know this? I'm severely allergic to most plants--as well as anything with fur (although I have three cats and am tolerant), feather, pollen, or spores, as well as certain plastics and metals. :/ Jimsonweed and its ilk (Datura sp.) grow wild all over the warmer parts of North America. Not as much in the desert where I live, though.

I also have an autoimmune disease--this runs in my family. What it boils down to is my immune system is on overdrive and can't recognise what's a legitimate threat vs. a ghost, so...in any case, it's odd. I can't stand it when people tell me (no offence to herbalists or Reiki healers who might be reading this) that 'my immune system is too weak, and I need Reiki or whatever to fix it.' All they show me then is that they're ignorant of the problem. Strengthening something that's already too powerful is generally not wise, either in the physical or alternate realms.

Speaking of spirits: I had several dreams where the Goetic spirit Marbas came to me, and when he didn't speak to me directly, I'd see his sigil on a wall or a door in my dreams. A couple weeks after this started (I was new to the Goetia at the time), a friend of mine came into town and presented me with the gift of a stuffed lion. I got the message. I haven't had any real reason to formally summon Marbas and ask him what his purpose for coming to me was, as he showed up right before I got the AI and has been very helpful with everything.

I can lead a pretty normal life, I just really have to remember a lot of my energy is finite and plan accordingly. IE: if it's windy, don't hang out outside. Go shopping and stay indoors! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As for the anti-Irish spirit, maybe it's Welsh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Seriously, though, even a six-month drug holiday isn't enough. For real attainment you're going to have to kick them entirely. *shrug* Dunno what else to tell you on that front, as I've said pretty much what I needed to and others seem to agree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Dec 2 2006, 12:13 PM

That all makes alot of sense to me. Although I did handle the situation well enough I still did let it get to me a bit. I got scared from time to time and let that fear influence me. For example when I felt the cold finger I got up outta bed and walked out of the room. Also I was contemplating going to a mental institution for a while and getting on antipsychotic meds to block off any psychic influence that may have been there.

Like letting my fear close the doors and lock me up again. Judging by the fact that I had this psychotic episode and the fact I let it get to me that little bit suggests that I had a weak mind at the time and probably still do.

I was wondering how I can strengthen my mind up enough that I can alter my consciousness and perform divination without the aid of psychedelics or sleep deprivation etc. I'll stay off the drugs however long it takes even if that means never touching drugs again. I think a bit of psychosis has stuck to me after the experience. Every now and again I head an internal voice say "Your dead" and I have an automatic reaction to it. Nearly always I get angry when I hear it.

I have actually traveled throughout the Amazon and have met with several Quechua Shamans and tried real Ayahuasca…not the spirit journey bullshit that drives tourists by the dozen, but the authentic medicinal substance used to cure illness.

Yeah theres alot of con artists out there. I hear Peru is the best place to find legitimate ayahuasqueros with pure yaje. Anyway I know enough about ayahuasca and the jungle I can find and brew my own yaje but I would be reluctant to perform a ceremony without experienced ayahuasquero's. Plus without the proper icaro's it mightnt be a beneficiary experience at all.

Its not the meth its the lack of food and sleep. Meth is by no means a hallucinigenic. By the way purity is the best means to any esoteric work.

Of course. Usually it takes alot more than 3 days to have full blown auditory hallucinations like I had though. I had some visual ones too I kept seeing a bright white figure of a human standing in the bathroom doorway.


Im ashamed that I had this psychotic episode after only 3 days of sleep deprivation. How would I go about training my mind and strengthening so its up to par the rest of you occultists in order to perform divination, magick, and alter my consciousness without using psychoactive substances.

Ive always been fairly impatient thats why I never got into meditation but I suppose its about time I learned. All my psychedelic trips have opened, expanded and strengthened my mind but Id love to be able to have the same experience without having to take mushrooms, salvia, DMT, etc.

Another thing I forgot to mention is a few days before this episode I let my old man do a bit of hypnosis on my where he said "You will open yourself up to all language"

This voice said "Maybe it was Santa Clause that opened the door or maybe it was that hypnosis that did it" then he said "Its alot harder to close the door than it is to open it in a slightly threatening way"

Also when I told the voice I was going back to Ireland at christmas it says "We're going to have fun in Dublin". The "we're" part of that statement was a bit disturbing.

On the plus side of this experience the only things in life I really feared up until then were Satan, demons, ghosts and the paranormal and that night I was convinced I was dealing with all for of them and insanely enough I lost all fear of them. I think now even if I was faced with a real demon trying to possess me I wouldnt even be scared and would be able to force it out of me. Well maybe thats going a little far but im sure I wouldnt be scared anyway.

Yeah theres alot of con artists out there. I hear Peru is the best place to find legitimate ayahuasqueros with pure yaje. Anyway I know enough about ayahuasca and the jungle I can find and brew my own yaje but I would be reluctant to perform a ceremony without experienced ayahuasquero's. Plus without the proper icaro's it mightnt be a beneficiary experience at all.

Yeah Peru is definitely the place to go. From what I could gather there is a complicated process to the brewing of Ayahuasca (the Yage vine is only one component), the shamans I spoke to say it takes about a month before it is ready for use. Aside from the brewing part, a good ayahuasquero is necessary as he leads you through the hallucinations with whistles and songs (i.e. charging the air with icaros).There are some really interesting articles on the combination of music and ayahuasca. One I found really fascinating is

"Hallucinogenic Music: An Analysis of the Role of Whistling in Peruvian Ayahuasca Healing Sessions"
Fred Katz; Marlene Dobkin de Rios
The Journal ofAmerican Folklore, Vol. 84, No. 333. (Jul. - Sep., 1971), pp. 320-327.

This article really shows you the importance of a proper ritual context (in this case music). Anyway, If you can't find this article at your library or online, PM me and I'll see if I can scan my copy to pdf.

@Xochipilli: Fear will shut down any progress you've made faster than anything else I know. It does it in the real world, too.

I'd advise taking things slowly at first, and being patient. I learned divination as a kid by reading Tarot cards. It was a great thing to do when I was snowed in and couldn't go anywhere, and since it was below zero (I grew up on the East Coast) it was too cold to play in the snow. So, I dragged out Mom's deck and her book, and sat down with them, and spent many a winter afternoon (and summer too when school was out) just looking at the cards, rereading the book, and figuring out what they meant to me. From there I gradually branched out to other forms of occultism. It takes time to learn to do something well, but it's also fun, too. If you learn at the wrong rate then it's frustrating or too easy and therefore not fun.

Do some homework. Dig around and see what forms of magic or divination appeal to you, and what you like and what you don't like. Soul searching takes effort and time, and should be done early and often. There are no shortcuts, and only you can find what's best for you in this regard.

I have to say nearly everything to do with the occult interests me. Shamanism, alchemy, hypnosis, voodoo, necromancy, psionics, radionics, demonology, astral travelling, telepathy, telekinesis, goetia etc. Im not interested in the likes of scientology though. Seems to me thats stuffs riddles with pranksters, con artists and bullshit artists.

Basically all I really care about is expanded my mind, becoming wiser, stronger, more knowledgable and pretty much a better person in body and mind. Im not getting into magick to influence other people or gain money, friends, women or any of that crap. That I can do without magick. Im getting into it to have full control over myself and also to attain occult knowledge of myself and the world around me. Basically im getting into it for self control and divination. Although if I have the ability to attract good friends, women, better jobs etc. then I see no reason why not to.

Also it would be fairly cool to have the ability to heal people through magick thats one of the reasons I aspire to become a shaman.

The only situations I would ever use black magick is against other brujo's or dark occultists who cause harm to me or people around me.

Try the gnostic way of purity my friend. Im interested or practice a mass of things also. there is nothing wrong with having hallucinations or whatever you like to call it (i prefer seeing the truth myself) after three days we are not a society of hardy people like the old barbrians or templar etc.... Anyways if you fast for a day or two and drink down on cranberry and water you will be clean and also probably have the same affects as before. Fasting is a good and still used method for makeing your assemblage point slip. Just if you must use drugs avoid things that speed you life up like meth. We want the opposite affect. We want to see all and be in the here and now. meth is a man made drug also which i hate.
I have been pure for some time but i did go through my shroom, hash, and even opium stage. it does allow you to open doors and experiance what i call the real deal.
meditation is for all intents my "drug" of choice now. it works so well once learned in the art that i scare myself more than with any drug.
Dont worry about trying to be like someone else in fact the most important thing you can ever do is "Know thy self". as you discontinue drugs you will see that the big picture is clearer and your mind is so much faster. My last drug of choice was MJ and it was the worst. It dulls the mind and i even noticed it severly interfered with dreaming. well in my opinion dreaming is key to almost all things esoteric. The pure path is the way to go. I do miss the fun of narcotics but recently ive found that with fasting and meditation i can bring about any state that ive ever been in with drugs. remember mind body and spirit. drugs inhibit two of the three maybe all of them.
To help you progess faster try Tibetan practices they seem to guide me very quickly too where i wanted to be. read all you can get your hands on and meditate. tarot also is extremly helpful.

This post has been edited by Enochian: Dec 2 2006, 03:12 PM

I've already started. Im off the drugs altogether. I hardly even drink anymore. Im planning a trip to a thai Buddhist temple with my brother in a few months. There I'll most likely learn to master meditation. Your only permitted to speak 20 minutes a day and spend 80% of the day isolated in your room.

I cant think of a better place to improve my meditation skills.

Awesome i wanna go.

Now I know that everybody who has experienced "hallucinations" from staying up days on methamphetamine will almost always put it down to speed induced psychosis but after having a very lifelike conversation with a voice in after 3 days of sleep deprivation and lack of food im starting to question how imaginary these so called hallucinations really are.

The body can only go for so long with out sleep. There comes a point where the body can no long remain awake but the meth keeps the mind from fully shutting down. After enough deprivation what happens is that the brain enters a state of sleep while the consciousness is fully awake and still in control of the body (called the calm because some people who experience it become very relaxed). So its not really sleep but if a user in this state were to be hooked up to machines that moniter sleep they would appear to be as such, yet they are fully awake and still depriving themselves of the total sleep cycle.

This is when the user experiences dream like hallucinations. Anything from "bug vission" where a user sees bugs crawling on the walls and their skin to full out "schizophrenic" episodes where the user can have conversations with people, or beings of any manor (including spuer heros). These are like schizo episodes in that the person believes they are have the coversation/ interaction with other entities, but the person is just sleep deprived and dreaming while awake because the meth prevents them from entering a true sleep cycle. A person on meth might even lie down and take whats called a "power nap" where they, inaffect, loose consciousness for a short period of time. But in reality they are not actually asleep. And some who take lots of meth can go a week or longer without ever realizing they haven't actually slept.

Now what drugs do is the increase the suggestability of a person by forcing it into altered states of mind. The suggestability and the affect of the drugs can lead to a sort of self-hyponosis. In the case of meth one can pretty induce a state where they believe they can fly, they are king of the universe, the government or aliens are out to get them or that they can talk to otherworldly entities. Thats just the meth. With the introduction of methadone, pcp, and pot I'm actually very supriesed your hallucination wasn't deeper and more vivid than that. Now I understan that you intend to quit for a period of time, implying you realize that drugs are hindering your life. I'm not going to preach to you either but I will offer a piece of advice - consider rehab and if you intend to continue to use drugs when you start remember your tollerance is a lot lower. Friends of mine have ODed and even died because they went from 0-60 faster than they could handle. I've nearly died from multiple drug over doses too.

Because drugs can affect the mind in such a way, especially meth&pcp, I highly, highly recommend not incorperating it into magickal rituals. Meth creates delusions (examples - feelings of confidence and bigger sexual appitite) that are not real and to believe in them can lead to real psychosis. I believe all drugs can be used to have spiritual experiences. But a personal revealation one experiences about life and their existance is a far cry from believing they've contacted other beings.

Im interested in hearing opinions on the subject from occultists. I had no idea what psionics were until I had this experience. The voice talked about all sorts of things but at one point it said "Seeing as your more in tune with this dimension where deceased people reside, I can send you psionic frequencies". Also the voice asked me if it was my first psychedelic encounter.

Another very strange detail was the fact that after the voice told me it was going to give me a wet willy I actually felt a cold finger poke me in the back. It either felt like a cold finger or cold water seeping through my t-shirt.

Alot of very strange and unexplainable things happened. The voice seemed hellbent on convincing me I was dead too. It wanted me to face a certain direction and I noticed when I did the voice would get louder and more intense. At one point the voice said "Now that I have his undivided attention, I concentrate on his frontal lobe". I felt hands on each side of my face after that.

Something fairly strange that happened was after the voice told me I was going to get carpol tunnel syndrome my hands went ice cold and started sweating excessively for no logical reason.

The meth deprived you of sleep to the point where your body could no longer take it so, out of desperation, it put you in a state of mind as close to sleep as possible. Since you were still awake, the meth kept you from fully falling asleep and you experienced dream like sensations. Even the wet willy was likely nothing more than a symptom of your sleep deprivation.

I knew this one guy who freaked out on meth because he was convinced the cops were after us and he camped out in my friend's attic for 3 days. I don't think he even went to the bathroom during that time. When he came back down he had no memory of what he did he didn't even realize he lost the 3 days. He did approximately 1/4 ounce of some crystal and he did it all in less than 3 hours time. I thought he was going to die. I've got plenty of other stories point is its real easy, real quick to over do hard drugs.

Should I just assume it was my subconscious speaking to me or was there something else involved? The reason I posted in the psionics forum is because of that statement it made about psionic frequencies. I might have heard about psionics but I didnt know exactly what it was at the time.

Also I should mention my dads an occultist and this voice claimed to be him on numerous occasions. Also the voice repeated things my father had said to me years ago which I had completely forgotten.

Im not sure exactly what my old mans into but Ive heard him speak about Thelema and Aleister Crowley a few times.

Another thing I have a vivid memory of my dad talking about astral travelling and having to ability to poke people in the physical realm and they actually feel it. Weirdly enough when I asked him about it after this experience he denies ever having said that.

When we forget things all that means is the information stored in our mind has gone dormant. This is caused by neural pathways that have not been stimulated in a long time or they have been destroyed. If a pathway has not been stimulated in a long time the use of drugs can activate them triggering the memory to emerge from its dormancy (you remember something and this can be very random). Like wise, drugs can also create new neural pathways that activate dormant memories. Drugs can destroy neural pathways as well, forcing the mind to find alternate routes - this can also trigger the recall of old memories. I remember one while being on acid trip I recalled a dream, in great detail, I had when I was 8 years old. The recall of the dream was so vivid I even remembered how old I was.

Being an "occultist" doesn't mean one concludes the mystical/magickal reasons before the rational, not with out hard proof. In reality practicing occultists are scientists in their own right. Therefore I would conclude that what you experienced was a totally mundane reaction to the suggestability caused by mild to moderate meth use and sleep deprivation that resulted in a dream like state of mind that caused you to experience hallucinations. Now it is possible that somewhere in that trip you did indeed open your mind's ability to percieve other realms of existance enabling you to converse with the entity you mentioned. But since you were under the influence of drugs and sleep deprivation you should not even try to believe you had anything other than a reaction to the drugs and lack of sleep.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Dec 4 2006, 04:26 PM

The body can only go for so long with out sleep. There comes a point where the body can no long remain awake but the meth keeps the mind from fully shutting down. After enough deprivation what happens is that the brain enters a state of sleep while the consciousness is fully awake and still in control of the body (called the calm because some people who experience it become very relaxed). So its not really sleep but if a user in this state were to be hooked up to machines that moniter sleep they would appear to be as such, yet they are fully awake and still depriving themselves of the total sleep cycle.

This is when the user experiences dream like hallucinations. Anything from "bug vission" where a user sees bugs crawling on the walls and their skin to full out "schizophrenic" episodes where the user can have conversations with people, or beings of any manor (including spuer heros). These are like schizo episodes in that the person believes they are have the coversation/ interaction with other entities, but the person is just sleep deprived and dreaming while awake because the meth prevents them from entering a true sleep cycle. A person on meth might even lie down and take whats called a "power nap" where they, inaffect, loose consciousness for a short period of time. But in reality they are not actually asleep. And some who take lots of meth can go a week or longer without ever realizing they haven't actually slept.

Now what drugs do is the increase the suggestability of a person by forcing it into altered states of mind. The suggestability and the affect of the drugs can lead to a sort of self-hyponosis. In the case of meth one can pretty induce a state where they believe they can fly, they are king of the universe, the government or aliens are out to get them or that they can talk to otherworldly entities. Thats just the meth. With the introduction of methadone, pcp, and pot I'm actually very supriesed your hallucination wasn't deeper and more vivid than that. Now I understan that you intend to quit for a period of time, implying you realize that drugs are hindering your life. I'm not going to preach to you either but I will offer a piece of advice - consider rehab and if you intend to continue to use drugs when you start remember your tollerance is a lot lower. Friends of mine have ODed and even died because they went from 0-60 faster than they could handle. I've nearly died from multiple drug over doses too.

Because drugs can affect the mind in such a way, especially meth&pcp, I highly, highly recommend not incorperating it into magickal rituals. Meth creates delusions (examples - feelings of confidence and bigger sexual appitite) that are not real and to believe in them can lead to real psychosis. I believe all drugs can be used to have spiritual experiences. But a personal revealation one experiences about life and their existance is a far cry from believing they've contacted other beings.
The meth deprived you of sleep to the point where your body could no longer take it so, out of desperation, it put you in a state of mind as close to sleep as possible. Since you were still awake, the meth kept you from fully falling asleep and you experienced dream like sensations. Even the wet willy was likely nothing more than a symptom of your sleep deprivation.

I knew this one guy who freaked out on meth because he was convinced the cops were after us and he camped out in my friend's attic for 3 days. I don't think he even went to the bathroom during that time. When he came back down he had no memory of what he did he didn't even realize he lost the 3 days. He did approximately 1/4 ounce of some crystal and he did it all in less than 3 hours time. I thought he was going to die. I've got plenty of other stories point is its real easy, real quick to over do hard drugs.
When we forget things all that means is the information stored in our mind has gone dormant. This is caused by neural pathways that have not been stimulated in a long time or they have been destroyed. If a pathway has not been stimulated in a long time the use of drugs can activate them triggering the memory to emerge from its dormancy (you remember something and this can be very random). Like wise, drugs can also create new neural pathways that activate dormant memories. Drugs can destroy neural pathways as well, forcing the mind to find alternate routes - this can also trigger the recall of old memories. I remember one while being on acid trip I recalled a dream, in great detail, I had when I was 8 years old. The recall of the dream was so vivid I even remembered how old I was.

Being an "occultist" doesn't mean one concludes the mystical/magickal reasons before the rational, not with out hard proof. In reality practicing occultists are scientists in their own right. Therefore I would conclude that what you experienced was a totally mundane reaction to the suggestability caused by mild to moderate meth use and sleep deprivation that resulted in a dream like state of mind that caused you to experience hallucinations. Now it is possible that somewhere in that trip you did indeed open your mind's ability to percieve other realms of existance enabling you to converse with the entity you mentioned. But since you were under the influence of drugs and sleep deprivation you should not even try to believe you had anything other than a reaction to the drugs and lack of sleep.

lol don't tell him to go to rehab. Have you ever been to rehab Acid09? He is going to a thai Buddhist temple and that will help him more then those retarded social workers can.