Frustrated With Lbrp Progress... Have You Ever Seen "visions" After Doing It? Options

It's been doing it for about a year, during some periods every day... and I just can't get any juice out of it.

It started well enough, but after a few months of daily practice, I didn't seem to have any results. I read Kraigs' modern magic book and he says it is likely you'll start seeing "visions" of things, he says he saw a snake disappear into the floor or something.

I'm no where near that point, if indeed I can get to such a point. I know the point of magick is NOT to have little tricks and visions but I feel bad that I cannot sense any true progress. I expected I would at least have gradual signs or feelings that I was advancing, even if just in baby steps.

Part of my problem may be that I rarely vibrate the names aloud, and when I do, I tend to feel a bit silly. My room has no curtains on the windows and there IS a constant sense of paranoia, at most times of day. I don't know. I dont plan on giving up but I wanted to know other people's sensations of "progress."

Hello there, congratulations on your dedication. Let me offer my own advice, I'm sure there will be others with good perspectives as well.

There are two ways to overcome this paranoia - and I'm certain that it is that nagging distraction that is preventing you from being totally in that experience, a key element to any ritual, especially the LBRP. The first is to choose a different space, where you are more completely isolated. Isolation and distance from everything in the world that you commonly know is a powerful key to effective ritual. Energetically, you could say that while you are attempting to create a field of energy that is specific and sacred to you, the people, places, and events happening around that space can destabilize what you are trying to create. You have to fight against all of that when you try to create your space. Psychologically, your mind is still in a particular mode when you are 'in the world' and that is the common mind, not the mystical mindset. When you are isolated, there is a total change of energy, of psyche, that causes a flexibility in the space around you. Also, there is no sense of "who is watching me" or "who might hear me and judge me."

Alternatively, you could simply overcome this paranoia by being more open about what you are trying to accomplish. If people ask questions, explain to them in simple terms that you are doing a practice for personal growth and transformation, which is exactly what the LBRP can be if you are able to do it with abandonment of the world and total one pointendness of mind.

However, it is not necessary to vibrate the names outloud - it is, however, necessary to be able to vibrate them silently if you are not going to speak them aloud. This is a tricky thing, even speaking the names aloud it can be hard to vibrate them eyond your own chest and throat. In furtherance of that, I suggest learning to vibrate properly without sound. Before the ritual, it can help to sit down, and with one finger placed on the heart or third eye - depending on which center you which to vibrate from - intone the syllable A, of AUM. Start as deeply as you can, and feel the sensation of vibration in your chest. Try to not only feel it somatically, but energetically. Feel the vibration in your entire body. It will start at your chest, but as you focus your attention on the sound and the vibration, it will spread naturally without your needing to push it. When it is throughout your body for a bit, stop, and focus your attention on the vibration. Keep it active by mentally creating the same sound while you keep your atention fixed on the vibration, and intone it mentally as though i will keep the vibration active.

This will take some practice to do effectively without beginning with somatic sound - sound produced outloud with the body. Once you can recall that vibration, work on centering it in your heart or third eye. After a while, you won't have to intone anything mentally, you will be able to simply call up the vibration. After this point, the next step is to project that vibration outwards. This is a complicated thing to explain in words, but it may help to imagine that the vibration travels out from whichever center in spheres - imagine ripples in a puddle, but spherical - that are carried out beyond your body and into the space around you. You do not so much project willfully, as allow the vibration to extend itself. Imagine that the space around your body vibrates the same way that your body does. This will connect you to that space, which is in itself an excellent meditation for transcending the body. When you have accomplished this, and you will know by your own perception if you have, then train yourself to intone the names of god, and the angels, internally using the same mechanism. That may take a little time as well, or you may be able to instantly apply that learned mechanism, it varies between individuals.

When properly vibrated, you should feel as though the words themselves take on energetic form, as vibration. With some practice and messing with it, you can learn to focus those vibrations on a particular trajectory, rather than all around you. What it boils down to is the ability to extend awareness into your immediate sphere. Once each pentagram has been empowered by a name of God, it should continue to vibrate, and so within that extended sphere of awareness, be aware of that vibration. When you are aware of all of the pentacles vibrating, before calling the angels to their quarters, sit and observe that sensation for a bit. It can be very powerful in and of itself, though the calling of the angels serves as protection on top of the names of god, in my experience. Just the pentacles vibrating the names will deter most negative energies, spirit or otherwise.

Of course, the best is a combination of isolation and proper vibration. Vibrating the names outloud doesn't really mean anything if you are not able to be aware of your sphere/cube. The point is to set up a network of vibrational tones, energetically, which adjust in their combination the vibration of your own energy. So if you are not aware of the vibration throughout the ritual, and even afterwards the change in your own vibration, then the LBRP is not performed successfully, in my opinion. Without that element of awareness people have expressed progress, but of course until you know what it can do with fully empowered, lesser progress can be quite impressive. We were all impressed with the wright brothers with their meager airplane, but they would be amazed by a seven-forty-seven.

If it's unclear, let me know.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Feb 15 2007, 01:44 PM

Part of my problem may be that I rarely vibrate the names aloud, and when I do, I tend to feel a bit silly. My room has no curtains on the windows and there IS a constant sense of paranoia, at most times of day. I don't know. I dont plan on giving up but I wanted to know other people's sensations of "progress."

Hmm. Thats probably the reason you feel as if your progress is stunted. Perhaps pick a time to practice when you feel that there are less onlookers. If you are not comfortable you will find it very hard to focus your will and intent, and this makes mastery of any ritual very difficult. Feelings of silliness or embarrassment are like bonds(akin the Hindu pasas) that hold you to the physical planes. These emotions are manifestations of your Ego and should be completely eradicated from your Magical practice.

Though "visions" are not essential in the LBRP you should be at least getting a sense of establishing holy space and purity. I've occasionally "seen" the astral traces of the pentagrams and more recently the archangels...for me these appear during the climax:: "about me flame the pentagrams...". Never once have I ever actually seen anything manifest in the physical during this practice; what I "see" are more like translucent impressions akin to the blurry doubles of people and things one sees after too much to drink. I do not place any importance on these glimpses into the astral, rather it is the feeling that I am now the center of my universe and am standing on hallow ground that defines my practice. The more sacred the space feels, the more I've "progressed"...if that makes any sense.

In my opinion vibrating the divine names is among the most important elements of the ritual. You don't have to shout them, but make them resonate within you as you exhale, you'll know you did it properly when you feel the energy course through your body and out your hands literally "vibrating" the space in front of you. I find a useful analogy to the bass at a rock concert, you may not hear it as strongly as you feel it... seriously, put on some music with deep bass and feel how your skin and the air around you vibrates with each beat. This is the sensation you should get when vibrating the divine names, even if done silently with the "greater voice" you should still feel this vibration of space-time. When done properly, the vibration of the divine names in the four cardinal directions will result in you coursing with magical energy and experiencing a prevailing sensation of purity. (Edit: I just read Vagrant Dreamers post, and wanted to add that he masterfully explains the vibrations of the divine names...we seem to be in agreement as to the importance of this element in the ritual)

Most importantly, don't give up. A sign of your "progress" will arise when least expected.

This post has been edited by Faustopheles: Feb 15 2007, 02:19 PM

Comfort is the key to all ritual work. If you are not comfortable then the entire time in the back of your mind you are worrying about something like someone may hear etc, then you are not focused on what you are doing. The end result is your just walking around in a circle and waving your arms like a mad man.

Remove the distractions anyway you can and focus on your work. The results will follow.

Thanks everyone for the considerate responses.

Here's a question about technique: all the books I've read say that the words should be vibrated AS you throw your hands out into the Enterer sign. That gets me stumped because I find it hard to vibrate simultaneously as thrusting. So you are saying to vibrate then thrust, as the end of the vibration?

Thanks everyone for the considerate responses.

Here's a question about technique: all the books I've read say that the words should be vibrated AS you throw your hands out into the Enterer sign. That gets me stumped because I find it hard to vibrate simultaneously as thrusting. So you are saying to vibrate then thrust, as the end of the vibration?

The Sign of the Enterer is an active position also called "The Step of the Avenger" and relates to the God-form of Martial Horus as an attacke. It is the ideal posture for one to project force and power outward.

In my practice I vibrate as I thrust. The vibration is not only vocal, but becomes amplified and directed via the "tuning-fork" of my body in this position.

I found it easier to focus on starting the vibrations as I thrust...so for example, in the East I shoot my arms forward while saying "Yooooodddde" and continue the vibration of the divine name (HeeeeehVvvaaaaawwwwHeeeeeeeh) while firmly in the position. Other Magicians may have different methods.

Tend to have the same problem myself, not being able to really go at it because family is about or my brother is in the room next door. Tad bit annoying transending space and time and being disturbed by a call for dinner. Still, have had the best result when my brother and uncle were in the other room thumping music through the wall, there was a lot of negativity around so I did the LBRP as I called on the Angels toward the end the whole place went silent music went off and they had a pause in their conversation.

When I first started out I was in bed afterwards and had a ''vision'' of someone/something banging on a sphere around me demanding that I inscribed some writing into the gate and let him in. Scared the living something out of me but it was odd feeling an invisible barrier as he/it was trying to get in. Was really intresting, couldn't cancel it out as being paranoia or general sleepyness as I could remember the writing and it was something totally new to me. In another case I invoked Raphel (was using the hebrew version at the time) and wanted to know what the Archs looked like... again after practice I had a half dream of someone laughing at me saying, ''He wants to know what we look like'' while changing his appreance mockingly.

Otherwise I have no need to see snakes and other astral entities, they definatly pay attention while a person practices, have taken to using Fraters, ''I now dismiss all spirits and energies'' at the end of my practice and have noticed a diffrence in the atmosphere around me but I find that practicing with expectance in mind mundanes the effect of the ritual. Maybe you need to re-evaluate why you want to be a magician as well as find some space that isn't so bombarded with thought patterns and peeping toms.

Start using Star Ruby or Nu Sphere I like them much better than LBRP.They give much more flesh at least to me.

This post has been edited by Ra Hoor Khuit: Feb 16 2007, 05:21 AM

It started well enough, but after a few months of daily practice, I didn't seem to have any results. I read Kraigs' modern magic book and he says it is likely you'll start seeing "visions" of things, he says he saw a snake disappear into the floor or something.

The above have been excellent posts
I can't really add anything of practicable value, but I would like to note that Kraig also makes the point (several times) that some people may never "see" anything or even have ANY noticable effect during ritual performance . . . and still be entirely successful in the rite and thier overall ritual work.
As much as I agree with the sense of the above posts . . . you can perform rituals and have successful magickal results without seeing of feeling anything you might hear others describe. This can be from tingling sensations from the vibratory formula and visulizing flaming pentagrams to nearly tangible evlopement of a god-form or physical presence of an evocation.
It belief thats key. As Kraig describes it, you have to believe that if you were "otherwise" able to feel or see those things, YOU WOULD !!


On the vibrate - thrust thing
When I started I also used the method Faustopheles described. Pick a syllable (I also flung my arms on the first syllable) and thrust on it, try each and find the one that feels right. You can do most of that experimenting outside of ritua. Again, Kraig describes this in the section on the LBRP, I think Regardie (Middle Pillar) also goes into thrusting on a particular syllable (but I'd have to check that out to be sure myself) . . . I don't recall A.C. suggestion.

Over the years my thrusts developed more of a Tai Chi-like movement. Mine tends to flow on a longer (and slower) exaggreated pushing of energy down from my head, along my arm movement and out to the object of focus, in this case the pentagram. As such, I get the entire movement to vibrate the "word of power". But it took time and practice to get a similar sense of moving energy (rolling thunder) with this.
Thrust is an action of wider definition then it might sound.

This post has been edited by palindroem: Feb 16 2007, 05:26 AM

>Part of my problem may be that I rarely vibrate the names aloud, and when I do, I tend to feel a bit silly. My room has no curtains >on the windows and there IS a constant sense of paranoia, at most times of day.

i'd say its time to cover the window, at least when you're doing the ritual - just throw a blanket over it or something - this will also signal your subconscious, once you've done it a few times, that you are starting the ritual, and that will help more than anything, imo, also if you are doing the ritual in street clothes, try putting on a necklace or something to help indicate the start of the ritual to the subconscious

and, like the most excellent answers have previously said, don't worry about seeing stuff or not - the whole idea when you 'see stuff' is to be expanding your senses beyond the everyday world, that will come once you continue your mastery of the chosen technique

as for kraig's snake being 'real' (anticipating the next question) - i see stuff all the time anyway - worked for many years getting the ability to see astral forms, etc, now its both a blessing and a curse - a lot of it has to do with 'partial projection' - once you get expanded, trying to keep the expanded portion slightly out of the body, slightly to the left or to the right of 'in', so you walk in both worlds at once - anyway, like when i just went to let the dog in, i saw a flock of birds in the yard but they cast no shadows in the bright sunlight - were they there and real or not? i have come to the conclusion that the things i see are indeed there and real, perhaps not so much earth-bound, but they are there and real, somewhere

e.

This post has been edited by esoterica: Feb 16 2007, 07:42 AM

Here's a question about technique: all the books I've read say that the words should be vibrated AS you throw your hands out into the Enterer sign. That gets me stumped because I find it hard to vibrate simultaneously as thrusting. So you are saying to vibrate then thrust, as the end of the vibration?

The correct method is there is an internal vibration as per the middle pillar at the beginning of the sign of the enterer and then a outward audible vibration as you perform the sign of the enterer along with the appropriate energy movement.

In truth the LBRP should be learned and practiced in stages until you are competent in the ritual.

Obviously you first have to memorize it. Then concentrate solely on the movements until your pents and steps are correct. Then concentrate on the audible vibrations. Then concentrate on the visualizations. Finally, concentrate on the inward vibration and energy movement. Work on each part until everything is put together.

Again, everybody, thanks for chiming in with some good advice. Here's one more issue:

when doing the Qabalistic cross or Middle Pillar, aren't you meant vibrate other body parts? For example, right shoulder with ve-geburah? And when you thrust your hands, what part of the body is meant to vibrate? it begins in your chest? In your third eye? Anywhere you feel accustomed to?

I have so far been trying to focus my attention on that part of my body while vibrating. I might not be sensitive enough to feel things, who knows. (Also, I should add for what its worth, I live near a small but busy road. Constant whoosh-whoosh of cars and its quite annoying for doing most types of things, magical or otherwise.)

when doing the Qabalistic cross or Middle Pillar, aren't you meant vibrate other body parts? For example, right shoulder with ve-geburah?

Yes

And when you thrust your hands, what part of the body is meant to vibrate? it begins in your chest? In your third eye? Anywhere you feel accustomed to?

The initial vibration is along the middle pillar, during the thrust the entire body should vibrate.

I can't add much, other than to say that the words and actions are dramatics (dramatic magick, Kraig describes it as). The important thing is to create the sacred space. To visualize, you almost need to achieve a genuine gnosis (I know, that's Chaote, but gnosis is the whole purpose of ritual, mantra, or any other method of empowerment, isn't it?) So, perhaps before the actions, try a little chanting, meditation, get in the frame of mind first. Just an suggestion. I chant a mantra 108 times, to candle light, and it gets me into the right frame of midn.

Just an update... working on vibrations but still no real luck. I have tried the advice above.

I don't know what my problem is. I am expecting to feel deep quivering vibration "waves" from where I focus my attention. Maybe I am being too "physical"... are the vibrations meant to be more subtle? Anyone know of any extremely in-depth instruction?

I am trying to get the plane off the ground... I've read a lot but I dont see the point in doing the more complex rituals if i cant get the basics right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/baby.gif)