Jediism, The Religion Of The Jedi, The Force is strong with this one... Options

Just when you think you've seen it all...

http://www.thejediismway.org/

While many see it as a joke, a small minority of people have truly adopted "The Force" as their religion and its early practitioners called it "Jedi," as George Lucas didn't give a name for the religion that the Sith and Jedi practiced. Though a new movement has decided to call it "Jediism."

This has got me thinking. What if more people started to believe in it? What if in 20 or 30 years enough devout followers adopted this as their religion that their combined faith and energy pooled together to bring the Force into existence? Do you think it would come into existence? If it did, would you try to master its ways? Merely hypothetical conjecture for now, as, in my opinion, it is too new of a religion to have any real power. But what about in a few decades? Lucas did admit that he based most of his ideas for the Force on Taoism.

Your thoughts?

This post has been edited by Slayden: Jul 15 2007, 06:45 AM

Since the fledgling faith isn't condoning anything bad I say go for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My answers seem a little contradictory.

I said no, beliving in it will not cause it to come into being, because the force already exists. George Lucas adapted the idea of the force from every other principal of universal consciousness and energy. From the Tao, to Brahma, to Mana, Prana, and Chi. There is a field of energy that interpenetrates all of existence - it does bind the universe together, it is intelligent, it will speak to you if you listen to it's voice, it contains all action and possibility, from the beginning of time to the end of existence, and you can see those possibilities throught it. It is the functioning power beyind all psychic and occult phenomenon. The Jedi, are just taking a 'new' kind of look at it, although it really isn't all that new. Their kind of like new age samurai, assuming they follow the jedi code.

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

I personally find it not a terrible code to live by, and have sat in contemplation on it many times myself. The Jedi are an allegory towards the mystical archetype, those who are connected to "The Force", who hear it's voice, and heed the responsibilities that it places on them - to be a functioning part of the universe, not an individual 'making his own way' in it. I could say, I already follow "the force" though I wouldn't say I were a jedi, or even a fan of jediism. I refer to the universal power, however, as the Force on a regular basis. The nomenclature is convenient, and somehow, it sounds less pretentious, believe it or not, in common parlance, to say that I saw something 'through the force' rather than 'clairvoyantly' - explain energy work by saying 'reaching through the force' rather than, "extending one's energy appendage by means of the aether." Also, the term, "The Force" has a connotation in mankind's psyche as an intelligent power that is everywhere. Pop culture allowed for the injection of this idea into the civilized group mind - the 'uncivilized' tribal group mind take the existence of such a power for granted - and so it becomes a nomenclature that everyone recognizes, and understands to a limited degree when you talk about it.

Personally I do not believe in the Light side or the Dark side, but rather in the Unified Force (circa NJO) - that the darkness or light exists in the individual, not within the force itself, and that from the point of view of the Force no such thing exists - the true meaning of "There is No Passion; there is Serenity"; that while we may see the darkside, evil, as abominable, the force sees it as part of the natural order, an aspect of it's manifested universe that is as necessary as the poles of a magnetic field.

That said, I am a very big fan of the Star Wars Jedi, have read every novel put out involving them (minues, for instance, X-wing series), and have memorized so much history and obscure details about the history of the jedi order, the 'current' jedi practices and beliefs, changes in philosophy between the NJO and the Old Republic Jedi. However, even at all that, I manage not to call myself a Jedi. Though, is calling myself a Mage really any better?

peace

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

Very good points. I tend to agree with you for the most part. My personal beliefs, however, don't include the "we're all one unified being" aspect. Connected maybe, but I believe that we are all individuals independent from each other. We can interact with each other, travel through and use the astral, and perform supernatural feats, but I don't think we are our own gods and that we are all one god and that the cosmos and everything in it are all one... thing.

When it comes to Jediism, I agree that the Force already exists but works a little differently than in Star Wars and goes by differnt names. However, since there are some differences between what already exists and the Star Wars version, my curiosity is sparked at the possibility of these people creating a different "sub-plain" to the plains within the astral realm that more closely resembles the Force in Star Wars, complete with negative and positive aspects (Lightside/Darkside) that influence its followers, though I doubt to the degree of influence found in the fiction.

As a side question, Vagrent Dreamer, what is the difference in the philosophies between the New Jedi Order and the Old Republic Jedi? I never delved that deeply into Star Wars other than from the movies and games. I played KotOR I and II, and I played Jedi Knight II and III, so some idea on what the differences are, but I'd like to hear it from you since you got into it so much more deeply than I have.

I got into White Wolf's The World of Darkness pen and paper RPG series instead. Ironically, Demon: The Fallen was my favorite, followed by Vampire: The Masquerade and Wraith: The Oblivion. Mage: The Ascension, Hunter: The Reconing, Mummy: The Resurection, and Kindred of the East were all pretty good too, but Changling: The Dreaming was too immature for my tastes. I have almost the entire three- or four-hundred some odd number of books in the WoD series on PDF, including the novels.
Man this is WAY off-topic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif) Ignore my rambling if you like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

Very good points. I tend to agree with you for the most part. My personal beliefs, however, don't include the "we're all one unified being" aspect. Connected maybe, but I believe that we are all individuals independent from each other. We can interact with each other, travel through and use the astral, and perform supernatural feats, but I don't think we are our own gods and that we are all one god and that the cosmos and everything in it are all one... thing.

I'm more hermetic than I am anything else, I used to be a bit of a chaote for a long time, but then eventually 'settled' down into hermeticism because it most closely resembled the paradigm I already had formed. At some point, though, I began to think - if we are all conscious of our individual selves, and yet are also connected by unconscious communication, and are further part of a grand subconscious, then there must be a kind of perspective for each of those levels of the mind. We're 'aware' of this part, but the unconscious is also self aware, but experiencing a very different (from our point of view) reality which contains within it our own and is in turn influenced by our reality. The subconscious is the same relation to the unconscious, and it is, in turn, so in relation to the group mind - which may have varying levels, like "Family", "Culture", "Geographic Locale", etc., each bearing the same relationship to the higher order that that conscious has to the unconscious, each with it's own 'personal perspective' which becomes of course more inconceivable as you 'go up the ladder' as it were. When you get to the top of that, it's one mind, trickling down through this creative process into many layers of individuality. To me, that universal consciousness is the Force. It is the substance and the medium through which that substance communicates itself. This explains in a jiffy every kind of miracle and psychic phenomenon, every occult power, every paranormal experience, or offers a background upon which any such experience can be explained with reason, and is found on observations of simple human tendencies across millenia of history. Individual, God, Source of All Creation - it's all relative. What we see as separate here, is just multiple parts of something bigger, higher up. Even the astral functions like this - there are fewer energies to encounter on the psychic and astral planes, as there are instances of that same energy on this plane. It appears to be separate objects, people, ideas, etc., but all having the same energetic significance - because that one energy manifests in different ways on this plane. Naturally, there is a higher order above that, fewer energies on a higher plane, and eventually following that reasoning, the divisions become fewer, until there is only one, manifesting in a cosmic domino effect everything "below" it, or after it.

When it comes to Jediism, I agree that the Force already exists but works a little differently than in Star Wars and goes by differnt names. However, since there are some differences between what already exists and the Star Wars version, my curiosity is sparked at the possibility of these people creating a different "sub-plain" to the plains within the astral realm that more closely resembles the Force in Star Wars, complete with negative and positive aspects (Lightside/Darkside) that influence its followers, though I doubt to the degree of influence found in the fiction.

We would have to manifest midichlorians as well then, as that is the functioning difference between the force in star wars, and the force in reality. Midichlorians are responsible for a jedi's particular abilities, and the influence the force exerts on some people. But, I'll elaborate on that aspect of the 'force' as it were, in just a moment with this next paragraph. IN any case, what I'm saying is that there is a difference in people, not in the force. However, I think that humanity is headed towards an evolution in which individuals become increasingly more psychically active, and we will see many abilities in the distant future become quite specialized before they are ever commonplace. At that time you might very well see orders of "jedi-like" monastics, though how operative they will be in the legal system is questionable. The military and police forces might employ such specialists. This of course is a matter more of the evolution of consciousness than something totally biological, although it may be that alterations to the normal function of the brain and body may impress, over time, a genetic trait to propagate that ability into the human gene-pool if it isn't there already. That would be a biological change that fits with the idea of the presence of that mythology creating a reaction in reality.

Astrally speaking, that has already happened, as all concepts exist in the astral already, in one sense, and as soon as they are conceived, in another.

As a side question, Vagrent Dreamer, what is the difference in the philosophies between the New Jedi Order and the Old Republic Jedi? I never delved that deeply into Star Wars other than from the movies and games. I played KotOR I and II, and I played Jedi Knight II and III, so some idea on what the differences are, but I'd like to hear it from you since you got into it so much more deeply than I have.

The main differences between the old order and the new, are the appropriate conduct of jedi, the basic philosophy on the use of the force, and the structure of the order.

The original order was extremely monastic, even religious in their own sense, and Jedi were expected to live monastic lives - free of all kinds of passions, renunciate on the common life of a man/woman, such as family, private home, personal life, etc. They were expected to sacrifice all to the will of the force in their lives, and to the Republic and it's peace. The new order is more lax, seeing Jedi as more like specialized individuals, who have a very sacred job, but also are allowed to balance a personal life with that duty. They are seen more as people with those skills, than as a priestly class (lightsabers or not). While the public harbors much of those feelings towards them, within the order, and based on it's dealings, it is a far less strict order, and is like a neutral government within the republic rather than a tool of the government.

Then, in the old republic the line between the darkside and the light side was drawn along the use of the force itself. There are certain abilities that a jedi may apply the force to. He may know of the uses of the darkside, or not, but he does not employ that 'aspect' of the force itself. Darkside and Lightside are seen as discrete elements of the force itself, like male and female. The new order believes more that the differentiation lies within individuals, and in the life that the force creates, rather than in the force itself. The Unified Force is so called because the only darkside is that which is projected into and through the force because of anger, hatred, etc., which cause different resonances in the force. Jacen Solo was the original proponent of this version of the force and quickly won over most of the others until it became the prevailing philosophy, especially after Luke Skywalker saw the wisdom in it and adopted it himself. After this, Jedi occaisionally use the force in ways that would be considered 'Darkside abilities', but they use them judiciously and are always understanding that the power of those abilities should not corrupt one's conscience. They must not give into the darkside within them.

The structure of the order was the other major change. The jedi academy is now more of a k-college school for jedi, in which novices train with different masters specializing in different subjects, and then eventually become apprenticed to a master specifically in much the same way as the old republic jedi; however, they may learn from several different masters as they develop as jedi, and one master may have more than one apprentice. This is largely a matter of necessity in rebuilding an order from scratch, however, over time the Jedi have become more of a very large family than the old republic were, who functioned much more like a heirarchical government branch. There is only recently a Jedi Order, but luke skywalker is considered the Grand Master Jedi, and is acknowledged as the leader of the new Jedi order, and will likely have a successor as it is thought that the focus of power, balanced by a council of masters, is a useful change. it is likely that the next grand master will be so recognized for his wisdom, etc., rather than power or knowledge.

I got into White Wolf's The World of Darkness pen and paper RPG series instead. Ironically, Demon: The Fallen was my favorite, followed by Vampire: The Masquerade and Wraith: The Oblivion. Mage: The Ascension, Hunter: The Reconing, Mummy: The Resurection, and Kindred of the East were all pretty good too, but Changling: The Dreaming was too immature for my tastes. I have almost the entire three- or four-hundred some odd number of books in the WoD series on PDF, including the novels.
Man this is WAY off-topic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif) Ignore my rambling if you like. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

I liked the WoD games, I personally prefer mage over the others, but have rarely played any of them, really. Never can seem to get it all organized properly, and inevitably get side tracked.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Jul 16 2007, 02:05 AM

A very interesting topic, indeed. I've often found the links between Lucas' conceptions of Jedi philosophy and Buddhism to be very interesting, and I'm certainly of the opinion that the Force, as he envisaged it, does exist, and has been referred to in Eastern religions for millennia. The one that most readily springs to mind is Mulapakriti, the energy field that all matter is composed of, and which binds every atom of the universe together. It may very well be that in millennia to come, Eastern philosophies and the Jediism of today will merge and create something new that will become commonplace. No bad thing in my book.

Just when you think you've seen it all...

http://www.thejediismway.org/


Your thoughts?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/starwars.gif) I just had to use this emoticon!


This is most interesting and made fascinating reading, especially the descriptions of what a Jedi is. (see blogs) As a matter of interest I wonder if anyone out there has become a Jedi knight like Obe-Wan or Yoda.

A good mainstream religion, think I. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Just go read about Buddhism and get it over with, ok, plz?

Jediism as a religion as many above have already stated was taken by Lucas from many sources western and eastern. It has been adapted by many, myself included as has much in common with the magick that we here practice.

Many Jedi take the veiw of the later Jedi (think Lukes day) of a more neutral and non-dual force, which aligns the jedi idea of the force, even more with magick.

I would say definitely don't discount it.

May the Force be With You,

Jedi Velarius the White

I always thought the Jedis were Buddhists with the whole Christian thing of redemption to them (the saviour or "one who will bring balance to the force")

I like the Sith's code a lot better, I resonate with it:

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.


I think it sounds rather Thelemic.

When it comes to Jediism, I agree that the Force already exists but works a little differently than in Star Wars and goes by differnt names. However, since there are some differences between what already exists and the Star Wars version, my curiosity is sparked at the possibility of these people creating a different "sub-plain" to the plains within the astral realm that more closely resembles the Force in Star Wars, complete with negative and positive aspects (Lightside/Darkside) that influence its followers, though I doubt to the degree of influence found in the fiction.

To me the biggest difference between Star Wars and our own reality is that we apparently tend to consider things like evocation to be in one category, and psionics/telekinesis in another, whereas to the Jedi, it's basically all just using the Force, irrespective of what you're doing.

In my own head, the Force from the original three films is a fairly direct, but also somewhat simplified analogy for astral space; Qui Gon's talk of "the will of the Force," doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, in that I would view a being with a will as being something connected to the Force, but not the Force itself.

Without it meaning to, I could see Jediism as essentially being a somewhat more limited version of Buddhism, with maybe a few Western occult elements thrown in. Lucas was, of course, trying to appeal to a Western audience. Yoda to me was fairly clearly inspired by the current Dalai Llama, albeit with a greater degree of arrogance.

As such, while I wouldn't have anything against Jediism as a concept at all, I'd probably prefer to study Buddhism instead; it's purely a case of going straight to the horse's mouth. Given that it also is a much older, organically developed belief system, you'd be likely to find that it has a much deeper and more extensive basis, as well.

As for the question of whether or not the Force will ever come into existence, I'd have to give the Hackish answer, Mu, simply because to me, the Force already does exist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/starwars.gif)

This post has been edited by Petrus: Aug 30 2008, 12:29 AM

As such, while I wouldn't have anything against Jediism as a concept at all, I'd probably prefer to study Buddhism instead; it's purely a case of going straight to the horse's mouth. Given that it also is a much older, organically developed belief system, you'd be likely to find that it has a much deeper and more extensive basis, as well.

This is purely a matter of preference i suppose. For myself i found Buddhism and Taoism first, and then Jediism close to the same time. At the time it brought together a lot of the things that i admired in those faiths and also allowed me to explore my own personal spirituality, taking elements of all three. I think that while going back to original old sources is important that sometimes it is just as important to explore and build from the past, in a more present oriented way ... in other words creating a new modern spirituality that works. That is what Jediism accomplishes for some. While Jediism isn't as important to me as it was years ago it will always be a part of my background, even if today my personal spiritual practice includes magick, and many other rituals.

As for the question of whether or not the Force will ever come into existence, I'd have to give the Hackish answer, Mu, simply because to me, the Force already does exist. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/starwars.gif)

I agree wholeheartedly.

Honestly, what tickles me a lot about the Jedi in the Star Wars movies is that they are not mere run of the mill musclebound and idiotic barbarians/warriors/etc... These guys actually had powers - powers that augmented their physical skills, and power that was trained, cultivated, etc... according to a master/student relationship with actual philosophical lessons and a freakin CODE - so that density of muscle didn't determine destiny.

What I really wish is that Lucas would make two specific and crucial contributions to his Star Wars mythos that (to my knowledge) he has not yet done: I wish he would offer a single term that indicates those who choose to walk the way of the Jedi and those who choose to walk the way of the Sith; and, I wish he would add one more group in addition to Jedi and Sith (that also is referenced by that single term), with a new name, that use the Force, who do not walk the ways of either the Jedi, or the Sith.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Dec 3 2008, 04:09 PM

(Geek Mode)

There are the Jensaari, the White Current Adepts, the Baran-Do sages, the Aing-Tii monks, as well as the 'Gray Jedi', who were sort of technically associated and trained by the Jedi, but operated outside their code and were even known to hold a more inclusive view of the force, one that would later be more common in the new jedi order era, generally referred to as the 'unified force' - a view in which the 'light' and 'dark' side are aspects of the individual's psyche and potential, rather than anything to do with the force itself.

There were dozens of other organizations as well, don't remember very many off the top of my head. Of course, this wasn't mentioned in the movies, but the process of authoring and structuring the novels relies heavily on Lucas' input (for now) and supposedly much (though not all) material relating to history, force users, and primary cannon characters is decided by lucas if only in the sense of a vague framework where authors have the ability to exercise significant creativity. In the end, there are mandates by which a book must abide in order to be 'canonized' as it were.

*ahem*

The views of these various group differ sometimes only very little and sometimes wildly. Some recognize no distinction between the light and dark side, seeing the virtue of the force in it's inherent quality of connectivity and organization. The white current adepts, for instance, are total pacifists, and see the 'dark side' as an illusion born of the individual's own inner evil, and consider this a taint of the force. They insist that the white current itself is something other than the force, that is to say, that it is a deeper aspect of the functional force, whereas the jedi, for instance, utilize a more superficial aspect.

While the movies of course remain the most widely 'impressive' and known elements of the star wars universe, the books evolve the universe to an incredible degree of detail, and in my opinion really serve more as a base of consideration than the movies themselves.

Eh, that's my piece.

peace

p.s. ah, here also, from wookiepedia:

Counter to millennia of Jedi teachings, the followers of Potentium claimed that there was no inherent evil in viewing the Force. They claimed that what others called the light side was actually just the Force itself, which is inherently good. This was backed up by the fact that Ashla, the ancient name of the Force, came later to describe the light side. What others therefore called the dark side was a perversion of the Force, twisted by those who used it. Believers of Potentium said that the potential for light and dark sides resided in the user, not the Force itself. They also thought that the Jedi Masters refused to believe in the Potentium view because it would mean the Jedi weren't needed to fight evil, for evil would not exist. And since there was no dark side, there were no dark side actions or Force techniques; in effect any action, good or evil, could be performed without risk as long as the intent wasn't evil. Some Jedi have theorized that the Potentium may have originated as a Sith scheme to subvert Jedi teachings.

About a century before the Battle of Naboo, the followers of Potentium were expelled from the Jedi Order, parallel to the Jedi Order's treatment of Gray Jedi as "misguided." Yoda and the rest of the Jedi Council didn't consider them Dark Jedi, but they said it was the duty of the Jedi to use the Force to protect others, not study its absolute limits. The Council said that testing the Force to its limits would lead to the dark side.

It should be noted that some followers of the Potentium still attempted to avoid the dark side--however they saw the dark side as something within themselves to be avoided, not something in the Force. They reason that if the Force is the energy that flows through all life, the darkside simply came from the corruption of humanity. They felt that if they could be perfectly moral, they could be immune to the dark side and therefore use any technique they wanted.

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Dec 3 2008, 08:16 PM