Destroy your sigils?, Do you or don't you? Options

Im over my head here so I think I'll just try to inject a little general rationality.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/censored.gif)

1st. 1970's was definitely the era of the "new age".

2nd. Just because something happened during that period of time
has no bearing what-so-ever as far as its validity goes.

FOR EXAMPLE

If the telephone hadn't been invented until 1970 then what
right would we have to view it as anything less that what it
actually is.. an amazing invention.

THEREFOR

Chaos magick is Chaos magick.

It does not matter what/how/when or by whom it was discovered.

Im not taking any side......just my $0.02

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/harhar1.gif)

Thats what I was trying to say. Just because something was invented in the 70's, even if it was a religion/occult paradigm, it doesnt make it Newage. Sure the 70's was full of new age things, but so was the 50's and 60's.

You've misunderstood/misinterpreted my text. I'm not flaming Chaos Magic(k)! There was no New Age following in the 50's until the very late 60's! I was there...were you? My statement was that Chaos Magic(k) was the product of the New Age. I'm sure that trying to pigeonhole the term Chaos and Magic(k) in this regard is foolishness. I wasn't, however doing so. I was refering to the present day movement called Chaos Magic(k)!
The "k" in Magic(k) wasn't used by anybody except Crowley/his followers until the great Homogenization! Crowley used it so that the word 'magic' had a numeric value that suited his working (gematria)! It was later used to denote the separation of stage magic and occult magic. Another Newage Homogenization!
*sigh* to each their own...

yeah I'm still here, i was busy today, sorry...

The chains of dogma just sounded neat, and was directed at the world not at a single person. Certainly not at you bym, i have better things to do than to feel offended by someone on a forum, lol...
I just like sounding dramatic sometimes, perhaps i read to much Tolkien...

New age and chaos magick are crucial factors in defining the view of magick today. The times have always been in motion, and the result of that motion is dependent on the times and actions before it. Each generation is shaped by the generation before it.
New age shaped much of how the world today is, new age is still shaping the future.
The chaos is always moving, always changing...

To say sigil magick is ancient is true.
I highly doubt that authors of todays sigil magick did that much research, to completely remake the theories that existed in those old times.
I certainly agree to the fact that sigils were used long before chaos magick, but in what forms they where used is to be questioned.

So therefor, sigil magick as it is defined today was largely invented by people from the chaos magick current.

Chaos magick itself has no real form. Its basis lies in chaos, and that freedom is the beauty of it. But a true chaotes has no need to call himself a chaos mage. He has no need for anything but chaos...

But i don't know that much about the origins of chaos magick and new age, i was certainly not there, in my small town there was never any new age movement. And I'm not that versed in history...

All this has been very interesting, and don't you worry about me bym, i will survive my chains since they find no grip on me, hehe... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This post has been edited by A_Smoking_Fox: Jul 14 2005, 09:18 AM

Sorry for the double post, but this is about an entirely different topic...

Homogenization, if done wisely, is very effective.

I have always Homogenized what i learned, since i was little, everything i learn is compared to and pieced together in a grand whole.

Why should we stick to one religion without learning another.
In something as technical as magick, why should you "reinvent the wheel" when it has been done in another religion.

Almost everyone of us uses meditation, why should you stick to the style of your religion, while the Buddhists are experts of meditation. Is it really useful for every religion to reinvent the technique meditation.
Perhaps we can take Buddhist meditation as it is, and then change it to fit our paradigms.

Homogenization just makes us go forward faster, reach new spiritual heights faster than normally possible.

The downside is that ancient traditions get lost in the homogenization, and there is no way of telling which was the original form of a new pieced together techniques.

I certainly agree to the fact that sigils were used long before chaos magick, but in what forms they where used is to be questioned.

So therefor, sigil magick as it is defined today was largely invented by people from the chaos magick current.

AAAAAHHHHH

Sigil magic was popularised by Austin Osman Spare, who was born in December 1886.
Chaos Magic was created in the 70's. ALL of the other authors that have writen about Sigil magic just re-wrote what Spare did to make it even more understandable and accessable.


On the topic of Homogenization: H leads to mediocraty, M leads to the destruction of individuality and creativity, all this leads to communism and herd mentality. H = evil.

This post has been edited by Alarum: Jul 14 2005, 09:34 AM

I would have to agree on the H == Evil

Whenever I think of homogenization I think of milk. (SHOCKING!!)

Before homogenization milk tasted a million times better,
There was probably certain cows in certain fields that produced extraordinarily
tasty milk, and others who's milk was just mediocre. But when homogenization
came it removed all the individuality from the process.. now any cow was
just as good any any other cow.. and any field was just as good as any other field.

Its the same old story of industrialization VS craftsmanship.

The craftsmen are dying, replaced by cheaper and lower quality product.

*sigh*

Hey! I hadn't thought of that analogy before! Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

After starting this topic I decided to sit back and withold replying for a while to see where it ran. It appears to have gone a little off topic from the beginning. I'll try to state more clearly what my question and statement was initially. I agree that sigil magick has within it the idea that the sigil should be "forgotten" after it's creation. One of the finer points of sigilization that I hoped would be discussed is whether the actual physical destruction of the sigil is necessary for this to be acheived. In my practice I find that simply placing the sigil out of sight(and therefore out of mind) is the most effective means of forgetting it. I notice that the act of burning or burying the sigil is so outside my normal actions that it often reinforces the magical act and makes it more difficult to forget. In a nutshell do members feel that the destruction of the sigil physically is necessary in order to forget the sigil?? Is burning or burying a necessary part when the action of forgetting may be acheived through other means.

No, physical destruction of the sigil isn't necessary. I've kept a 'grab bag' of sigilized intents for further use. (It is a rather subjective view) The act of forgetting is the key component here. To me, decades pass like oily water, it is easy to forget past sigils. Though I'd imagine that someone with eidetic memory should destroy the sigil, thereby sundering the concious link. When in doubt, destroy it!
I apologize for the thread moving off topic. It was my fault.
You appear to have thought this through. How does your approach deal with the problem? It will, ultimately, be your methods that you use. Each individual must adapt a method that suits themselves when it comes to 'tricking' the concious mind. Right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Of course all of this is my humble opinion.

I usually simply place the sigil in a box in my basement and every few months I destroy all of them when their "mission" is complete. This discussion originally started among the locals when discussing what were the requirements of sigil work. We all agreed that forgetting was necessary but some couldn't decide if there had to be physical destruction of the sigil. I put forth the argument that burning the sigil was such a rare occurence(i normally don't light things on fire) that it actually sealed the idea in my mind and made it more difficult to forget. I made the argument that forgetting is an integral part of all magickal ritual and when I finish my LBRP I didn't toss my robe into the fireplace, but I do attempt to seperate my magickal personality created in the temple from my public life and mind. Obsession on magickal acts I feel leads to failure.

Don't worry about the thread moving off topic (heck it is the chaos section) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thanks for some ideas on what you like to do. The grab bag of sigils is definitely interesting.

This post has been edited by chaoscrowley37: Jul 23 2005, 05:23 PM

Some of you may find it a bit easier to communicate if you brush up on your anontology.

Greetings HenrySpencer!
I don't know if I've ever heard of that word before...not that it would surprise me, but would you mind giving me a clue as to its meaning? Anontology seems to have been left out of my Websters dictionary. (I love new words) Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

anontology---Anti-Ontology. A straight definition I think would be against ontology(the science of being). No aspects of being can be described, only aspects of doing.

Ah...Thanks! I guess we should notify the dictionary people of the newly coined word! The definition of ontology is quite interesting! Learn something new, every day.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I'm not sure that 'anontology' is used correctly here....the science of 'non-being'? The definition also waffles between the words science, study and theory of ontology which troubles me as to their understanding of their own words. Fun stuff! I take it now that HenrySpencer was alluding to a joke...? Thanks again!

93!


My very little experience with chaosmagic , being a faint consecration of a dagger and 5 sigils, out of which i have gotten 4 to work, makes me doubt the whole forgetting about lust bit. Lust can be a disturbing factor as well as empowering, imho. in some instances of activating my sigils, all within the space of a month, back then.. i got results within 3 weeks for most, at most, and in my ideas the subconcious excitation of the wishes to others.. eg. thinking of the wishes while talking about OTHER THINGS to ppl you have a strong bond with seems to work magick.. i'be also seen examples of ppl working sigil magic releasing their sigils on the world on purpose, thereby making destruction of the sigil virtually impossible...
red red wine..

93! 93/93.

Seb

Personally I destroy mine. Not to aid in forgetting, I can do that well enough as it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But because I never liked having it lying around, always had the feeling that it was still (and unnecessary) linked to me. Once its purpose is fulfilled, and the desire passed, it should like the desire also pass.

Just my opinion.