Secrets That Are Not So Secret, Share some insights about spirits or spirit work in general Options

Hey everyone,

I'm kinda bored and through recent workings with a couple spirits I've had a few interesting things happen to me lately, some I should keep secret until they play out (that I didn't ask for, or even think of, but fall into the area of expertise of a certain spirit and was a dead topic in my life since before I was born so for it to come up so suddenly seems too coincidental) but minor things have come up that don't seem to be a huge secret. So I thought I'd bring up one thing and I hope others will add some of their "discoveries" of working with spirits (demonic or angelic, anything at all really) that will not infringe on any pacts or sworn-to-secrecy clause. I hope you all forgive my lengthy post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

I started to think about celibacy and it's relation to magic and religion. I was raised Catholic and although I don't have respect for the church, I respect the belief system and practices and I incorporate that into some of my workings. Since I'm working with certain spirits that are more sexual in nature than others (although it's not mentioned in any grimoire) sex has become a very active thing for me lately. I'm engaged and my fiance and I enjoy our time together but it just hit me a few days ago that I've been enjoying it more than other times, and that is a problem. At least with demons. I realized that I was allowing myself to be controlled by my animal instinct, my nephesh, and it's exactly why in the past I have failed to bind demons the way I should in order to have them do my will. If I can't control my nephesh, what makes me think that I can control a nephesh-like spirit? I don't subscribe to the theory/belief that demons are aspects of our mind, but I do tend to believe they are similar. One thing that I have never done in past work is abstain from sex and that could very well account for my failures.

So, whenever it's mentioned in a grimoire "you must be free of all sins and not know a woman" for 30 days or whatever, yadda yadda yadda, it's not a snooty christianity based way of trying to get you to be a slave to the church by controlling your sex habits, it's really more of a precaution. The magician/priest that abstains from sex controls his inner demons and therefore is prepared and able to control the external demons of his/her life. A demon (in theory) is completely unable to fight off the will of the magician/priest because of his celibacy and it simply gives up. That would also account for the constant assertions that I've heard my whole life about a priest being "infused with the power of God to control all demons". I don't believe it's actually because a priest has more authority than the average joe, I believe it's because a priest is (supposed to be) practicing celibacy. That gives him an edge over average joe.

I don't think I've read this in any occult book so if it's something that is "public knowledge" already then I'm sorry to waste everyones time.

On the other hand, whether it is public knowledge or not, I'd still like for others to discuss similar insights into the occult and grimoire work, so thanks to everyone that had the patience to read everything I just wrote, and please post you ideas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Hmm... it depends greatly on the individual in addition to a great variety of circumstances to be able to determine how one is able to work with entities such as so-called demons as such. Usually, it can be very easy to tell (even for the norm human practioner) that if something claims to be a demon, it usually is low-level riff raff that's not the real deal in a way, only something that would boost and such would try to convince another of its supposed identity. Sounds like some humans too doesn't it?

Oh well, back to relating to your topic. Sex and Celibacy either way can actually work, it hinges on the individual first. I've observed how some have actively marked themselves out to be ones that utilize sex greatly in their workings, but yet they are successful in what they do, be it the generally known run of the mill purification or the said binding as you put it. All this while others are clouded greatly by it and require some abstinance to carry out what they want effectively, thwarted by themselves perhaps or even supported by themselves, look into this and find some issues about how the inner facets of one's soul may work for oneself. An animal instinct, in a way could be said to be a human instinct... look at animal spirits, when you remove the misconceptions and meanings attached to them by humans and observe their core, what would you find? Animal instinct? Its quite absent upon closer inspection. Inherently, many entities do not have that said animal instinct... though quite a bit still do for one reason or another.

Demons on the part, coming from the greek word of "Daemon (Spirit)" is a rather twisted misconception and a sort of label that somehow "stuck" over the years of need to spread religion, for me they're just spiritual entities who chose to take on the said label for interaction with humans. The same thing in a way goes with the Angels, many of which are standalone cases like said Demons rather than working for the "heads". At least that's what I found out for myself from either side early on, they're aren't even as at odds as what the church might make them out to be.

Watered down can what is to be said of a general priest's abilities... somehow there's this pattern I keep noticing that the more indoctrinated an individual in their practice, the more adhering to so-called strict practices, they have much more restricted skills when compared to say a user of Taoist magick who creates much of his own workings rather than just follow by a book. There's much greater versatility and a sizeable gap in "power" if a comparison has to be made, but its all up to how circumstances may turn out for that particular fellow.

I don't read much, so I have little inclination to understand why every book likes somehow require a use of "force" to make things happen, banishing, binding, cursing or whatever. Why not just advocate "asking" or "speaking" as if casually talking to an acquaintance or long-time friend when interacting with entities? Demons no different in a way. And since here's the grimoire section, I can use my own interactions with Sitri for example. Unlike what is generally protrayed of him, I just have contact him and keep a connection just to find out information of what might happen in some energy use over a few days, predict the weather, contact spirit upgrades, etc. This is all done without any sort of force at any point, I just ask and if he agrees, he does it... its that simple. Heck I don't even use shielding.

So what can be said of all this? I once spoke to a practioner that had Demons being attributed as more "primal" beings in his view of everything, he regarded them as misunderstood beings that had more "rawness" and "chaos" about them that other spirits, nothing too significant about that either.

Altpath, you actually bring up a very good point, and there is a good reason why it's difficult to bind spirits, for you and for many others, unless you exercised that will. It's a combination of things, but the sexual practice is the subject, not the object itself.

Demons are entities who are 'in tune with' the lower instincts of human consciousness, that 'bandwidth' itself one that is only included in our own range of consciousness, not necessarily exclusive to us. Other entities besides physical beings can have bodies of a subtler or grosser nature while possessing consciousness and spiritual bodies on either the same or a different level than our own. Beings of a lower nature are within our purview to dominate, and with successive mastery over higher levels of consciousness, so do we gain the authority to properly dispense orders among higher beings.

You're right in assuming that if you cannot master you lower instincts, you likewise cannot master a demon. However, the instinct in question is dependent on the individual's character and degree of self control. People who have issues with anger are vulnerable along the source of that emotion, those with issues regarding lust, depression, etc., likewise are vulnerable along the lower instincts which instigate those feelings. Hunger, Companionship, Survival, Approval, etc., all those desires that can, in some cases, control us, likewise give those beings existing within those bands of consciousness sway over us in some cases, in others simply the freedom to ignore our bindings and rebukings.

For instance, I've never need to abstain from sex to bind lower sphere beings like the majority of demonic entities. I'm in control of my sexual urges completely, and have no need to exercise my will over them. However, I had trouble with insecurity. I needed approval in order to remain balanced. Abstaining from sex is an easier task than overcoming some of the other baser instincts, but the application is the same - it is an exercise of will over the thoughts, over the mind. To abstain from sex, when you think of it you must turn your attention away from it, or the desire will grow in strength until it overcomes your will. Or you may dwell on it and test the limits of your control over your will. Likewise, to overcome my weakness, it was necessary to turn my attention firmly away from those thoughts which would lead me towards seeking approval from other people. The act of controlling my mind, as well as the strength over my weakness gained by keeping it in check, was what gave my the authority over those beings.

In that regard, Kouya, you are correct if briefly stated - not everyone needs to abstain from sex to command demons.

In the statement that other entities will claim to be demons when they are not, that doesn't mean exactly what I think you believe it to mean. Entities which impersonate are entities from your own consciousness, reacting to your expectations. They are normally not fully independent entities in the sense that one means when speaking of demons. And in any case, the processes built into the grimoires are intended not only to call the appropriate entity, but to prevent other entities from coming in and impersonating the intended entity. Provided that the magician in question is performing the ritual in it's entirety, and has the appropriate understanding of the laws being applied, and the authority to apply them.

On the subject of animal instincts, entities that have them and don't, and why it all matters in the first place, here's a diagram to illustrate (illustrate only, not fully depict, as that is not something I could do in so little time as I spent preparing it, if at all):
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You may imagine, with some paring down of the reality of it, that the length of the colored bar is consciousness in it's infinite entirety. While not all bandwidths (the combinations and entities therein being relatively endless and infinite) are represented here, some relevant ones are.

Imagine this like the color spectrum. It's all light, but varying rates of vibration of said light - where one 'band' ends and the other is a matter of the relative 'width' or evolutionary level, of a particular consciousness. Some exist purely on narrow, higher bands, while others exist in wide bands, while of course the highest mind, that unified Divine Consciousness, naturally occupies the whole of the infinite spectrum.

Animal spirits do in fact possess animal instinct, in it's sublime form. They are manifestations of animal instinct, which is what we call it, when really it is a grosser vibration of consciousness which is less cohesive and therefore more reactive and primal in comparison to the consciousness endowed higher beings such as, for example, the higher end of human consciousness, that found in beings of higher spheres, etc. That does not mean that animal spirits are animalistic in the exact same sense that physical animals are animalistic - rather that, they occupy a narrow band of consciousness that is concerned (when experienced in relativistic terms, i.e., with some form of individuated ego) with the lower band of consciousness within human beings, who by nature of physical and spiritual evolution, have a band of consciousness that encompasses that animalistic bandwidth wherein animal spirits dwell. This is why animal spirits universally teach us lessons about our primal natures, our relationships to nature, one another, self, etc. They teach these lessons which are at the root of human consciousness because that is where they dwell. Animal nature is concerned with survival, the pack, the flock, the whims of the environment, and of course, beings in that evolutionary stage of consciousness are also concerned with the work of reaching the levels of higher beings. Demons also exist on a bandwidth that encompasses animal consciousness, and this is why we experience them the way we do.

To say that there are objectively no such thing as 'demons' as they are typically labelled is naive - you could call that class of beings whatever you wanted to, nargles for all it matters, and they would still be the same class of spirits, with the same tendencies, and the same offices. They did not take on the label, it was applied - they already dealt with humans, though on the most part not through direct communcation such as in the case of ritual evocation.

Lastly, there is a very good reason to make one's authority known to those lesser beings, and to exercise that authority and that is quite simply a matter of debt. If you ask a being of a lower nature especially, to do something for you, what do you suppose it gets in return? What could you possibly do for a lower being that would warrant it's helping you out from a vantage point of lower evolution?

Well, we can all use a little less karma. If you follow the request of a higher being, it alleviates some of your karma - this is a universal currency, and it goes the same way for a lower entity. You ask it nicely to do something for you, and in exchange, you incur it's karma, essentially working for that entities evolution. A pity so few people ever wrote about that or it would be common knowledge - granted, I didn't know until I asked what a demonic being could possibly want from me that would be of value. You'd think energy and presence would be enough but apparently those things matter less to such beings than you'd think.

However, when you are master over that vibration of consciousness due to your mastery over that own bandwidth of your own vibration of consciousness, it has no choice. Just as your own lower mind will follow your command, so must entities existing in the same band. For free, though you can give them whatever you deem fit - sacrifice, energy, etc. If you've got not authority, the only thing you've got to trade on is karma, and being incarnate as you are, you're in the perfect position to work some of it off for them, though the amount of karma - while that 'amount' is more abstract that we typically imply when we use the term, a matter of causal ratio - will naturally depend on the nature of the request.

What do you pay when you make a deal with the devil like a gentleman? Fame, wealth, health, long life, in exchange for......... remember?

Your soul! A little wisdom in those old fables after all. Not surprising, given how many mystery religions and old mystical orders recorded the secrets they uncovered in clever fairytales garunteed to withstand the assault of change and time in cultures far and wide. Religions and traditions rise and fall, but somehow, folktales and mythology always manage to survive.

With luck, you'll work off all that karma in this lifetime, carrying into another - or worse, getting stuck between incarnation for some period of time - is usually worse than incurring it and working it out during one lifetime.

Anyone who treats lower beings with so little regard, is in for a surprise. Human consciousness occupies a wider band inclusive of the demonic band - and you think you can deal so casually with other humans? Not when favors are being passed around, most shrewd and self-involved individuals, at the mercy of that very bandwidth of consciousness and lower instinct, will never do something just because you were nice about it. What on earth makes you think a lower tiered being made up entirely of that lower consciousness will do it?

Altpath, you're absolutely correct in your practice, and over time, with mastery of those instincts, that kind of preperation won't be necessary. Seek out the roots to those urges while you master your will, and the process will go much faster. I found the root of my lower urges with my parents, where most such roots are, and the lack of approval I had as a child. Sexual stuff, Freud would say, usually is rooted with the mother, but then, he was pretty messed up himself.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Aug 22 2007, 12:31 AM

Those are very good points vagrant dreamer. You brought up a good point that I was originally trying to make. The insight I was talking about is that it seems to me that it's impossible to accomplish any results without first addressing a number of issues we have with ourselves. I believe I was sexually abused as a child so that is why I think sex has always been a major issue for me in my life, both from guilt that was pounded into me by my catholic upbringing, and by an animalistic desire and drive that I always had growing up. Recently I've found that I have been able to subdue that aspect of myself very well, especially now that I am more focused on my girlfriend and the love I have for her, rather than on sex as a goal. Nowadays, I can feel that reserving that energy is a huge help with several things. I've been studying tantra somewhat and I like what I'm learning.