Paimon Problems, He just won't go away. Options

As I might have mentioned, I did an astral evocation of Paimon 4 or so months back. It was to bind some problems in a younger brother's behaviour. In terms of Paimon showing up, it definitely worked. I had mental verbal response from him, and exactly the kind of arrogance regarding the offering that Imperial mentions in his LiveJournal account.

For about two months after that, although for the most part I got the result I wanted, (Jeremy is still mildly obnoxious, but nothing I can't handle) things went fine, to the point where I forgot about the evocation.

Then about two months ago, I temporarily moved in with a guy in Melbourne who had emotional instability problems. One night I had the thought of re-summoning Paimon in order to bind this guy's anger, entirely randomly...and Paimon came back. The binding of that guy's anger though, for the most part didn't work. He was still unstable, and still yelled at me and was verbally abusive at times.

After that, however, I started having problems. The first thing I noticed was, whenever I'd try and do Japa, (mantra repetition) I'd suddenly be hit with paranoia about how similar Kali's (my patron) imagery is to some of the imagery that I've seen of Baphomet. I apparently still have psychological baggage where Satanism is concerned, and so for a little while, that really threw me for a loop.

The way I solved that problem though was by forcing myself to really focus on Baphomet for a few minutes at one point when I was being hit with that, in order to convince myself once and for all how different they were. I started getting back some really black energy which literally nearly caused me to vomit, and immediately stopped that. I then focused on how Kali has only ever made me feel positive, and gave license to depart, and for the most part, that problem has been solved since.

The other area however, where Paimon has really been attacking me hard, is the Faustian angle. There have been times where I have degenerated into a seething mass of fear and paranoia about the state of my soul, and I even actually had a fairly vivid dream only a few nights back where a supposedly "psychic" woman told me that a) I was going to die due to being stung by a massive swarm of bees the next day, and b) that I was going to Hell for having evoked Paimon. She was particularly mocking and vindictive; it wasn't a good experience.

The way that I've been mediating that is by continually repeating to myself either, "Tat Vam Asi," (that thou art) or simply, "my soul is my own." To some extent that works, but I'd be lying if I said it has completely. What really sent me into a psychological tailspin about a week ago though was when I read someone quoting Bardon on pacts on another forum.

In case anyone is wondering whether or not I've been banishing, yes, I have. I banish, and/or give License to Depart. Either one will work, but generally only for 24 hours, and then he's back. I made offering to Kali three or so days ago, and prayed to her about the problem, and felt that I got back the message that he would be taken care of. For said three days I've had peace, and so I gave a mental sigh of relief, thinking that the problem was finally solved.

When I woke up just a few hours ago, however, I felt a distinct presence in my bedroom. No accompanying thoughts; just a sense of unease in the pit of my stomach. I mentally gave Paimon License to Depart...and the feeling immediately went.

So how do I permanently get rid of him? I'm wondering if the real problem is the fact that aside from the initial bread and beer during the first evocation, I've never given him offerings of any kind. He actually asked for one a couple of times when I asked him to bind that former housemate's temper, but I still didn't, because I had thought that by the terms of Solomon's covenant with the spirits, I didn't need to. I also drew the Seal of Solomon during the initial evocation, so even though it was informal, I considered him bound by those terms. I had a particularly strong mental image of him attempting to break through a large astral/mental projection of that seal which was between him and me, during the evocation, but he was unable to.

I also, however, haven't made a permanent version of the seal, and according to someone else I've spoken to on another forum, that is what you must do in order to appease Goetics if they successfully fulfil a request, even though I never saw any mention of needing to do that for the sake of reward specifically, in the Lesser Key, although I know you are meant to make permanent seals for the purposes of the evocation itself. So I had been under the impression that you don't actually have to reward them in any way.

So...any advice? I know Bym is probably going to chew me out for this, and I also acknowledge that I deserve it, but at this point, I just want to know how to get rid of Paimon for good.

Greetings Petrus!
Since you invoked me in your last statement I feel obliged to give some sort of an answer.

You have the means with you as I speak to terminate your entanglement with this entity.
Though I do not follow her ways...she is known to be quite excellent at thwarting demons of any nature. She demands a blood-price but then you know this. Know that you cannot keep waffling from diety to diety to slake your thirst and then abandon them when something else comes along. This is the extent of my rebuke. I'm not here to judge you, why? we are our own judges. Embrace Kali. You know a part of her, now try to understand the rest. In dealing with demons it is not which god(dess) you worship but how you worship. Your faith must be seamless. Read between my lines. Blind faith won't do it either. Consider what you are and what the universe is. Well...so much for my two cents. I'm sorry if this sounded dogmatic. Good luck!

Though I do not follow her ways...she is known to be quite excellent at thwarting demons of any nature.

Yes; the Devi Mahatmaya is about her slaying demons, more or less from cover to cover.

She demands a blood-price but then you know this.

I've offered her some of my own at times before, quite willingly. That is definitely a good idea in this case. I haven't done that for a while, however, because I don't consider Mola Ram to be a positive role model, to be honest. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I feel some balance needs to be maintained where the subject of blood comes up in relation to Mother. There are Vaishnava Hindus online who try to claim that it is actually offensive to Kali to offer her blood at all, and all I can say to that is to wonder whether they've actually read the Kalika Purana. On the other hand, I (hopefully) obviously am not going to consider emulation of Elizabeth Bathory to be morally appropriate, and certainly not socially! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I've offered Ma a few drops in the past before, which I suspect She appreciates; and if I ever cut myself accidentally or fall over, I generally mentally offer her the result of that as well, but I'm not going to be going out at night hunting virgins any time soon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Know that you cannot keep waffling from diety to diety to slake your thirst and then abandon them when something else comes along.

As far as Gods are concerned I do not intend to, but I honestly did not know that working with Goetics was an act of apostasy.

This is the extent of my rebuke. I'm not here to judge you, why? we are our own judges. Embrace Kali. You know a part of her, now try to understand the rest. In dealing with demons it is not which god(dess) you worship but how you worship. Your faith must be seamless.

I think you're correct that I have had faith issues. I guess it's just because I was thinking; Kali might be very powerful, I don't doubt that...but Paimon isn't supposed to be exactly a featherweight either, in the grand scheme of things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Read between my lines.

I'm trying to, but I seem to be a little dense at the moment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) You weren't overly dogmatic, however. It is true that I can be a little flighty and addicted to instant gratification...but I like to at least hope that I'm slowly learning.

This post has been edited by Petrus: Aug 19 2009, 02:14 PM

It doesn't sound to me like you evoked paimon appropriately in the first place, to offer my two cents. Although Kali is a powerful protector against demons, if it seems she has abandoned you it may be more of a test of faith, as well as your own power. Kali always felt like a stern mother to me, the kind who watches you fall down and dust yourself off, not offering comfort at that moment, but always ready to be there when you fall down and break something. She may see that this is something you can deal with on your own.

That said, another route would be to evoke Paimon properly and command him to leave you be. Another member had posted about invoking one of the goetic spirits to make his girlfriend love him, or something along those lines, and that it went sour later on - not surprising, and this case is not surprising either; unless they are appropriately bound, the spirits adressed in the lesser key don't have to do anything for you, and have the authority to accomplish whatever you ask of them in whatever way they want and to whatever extent they choose.

And in my experience that has been true of spirits outside the lesser key as well - sure we can call spirits, sure they will respond, and even do something for us or teach us something, but unless some kind of binding is in place, none of them are compelled to do anything, although some will be amicable when offered something. When it comes to those 'kind' spirits, you can often trust their judgement; when it comes to many others I wouldn't trust them to do what you want in the way you want, or to leave you alone afterwards.

peace

Hi Petrus,

I've been working with Paimon,and with due respect to other more experienced magickians I have a different approach. This guy is a King, I didn't had the same impresion that you or Imperial Arts had, and no, I don't think that -according to the KOS covennant- we don't have to give anything.

Just think that you are in a position of power and can help someone get out of the muddle, afterwards the guy says to you I don't care about you and I'm not owing anyhting from you, so get out of my face! Personally I won't be in a good mood after that.

So, as I mentioned, he is a King, he came down to help you, you should have given something in return that he would like, and above all you should have shown respect. He was very kind with me, at the same time stern and lofty, and I showed respect, not fear, not love, simple respect to his high office, the same as if I were talking to a CEO of big corporation and trying to close a deal with him, we are not peers precisely, I would make clear my position and be formal and respectful but assertive.

By the way, he opened many doors to me and I forget to pay!!!! So, I receive the kick at the back end, so I called him again and settled the matter, and will keep working with him.

I'm not satanist or christian, just in case, I just try to use common sense with these guys and get what I want and give what they want, of course according to what I'm willing to give and agree upon.

My humble advice is, call him again apologize for your negligence of not giving anything in return in the past, reach and agreement or else make a proper offering, give thanks for his help and that next time you'll be more carefull, and dismiss him statiting "until I call you again".


That's my humble, non-expert opinion and advice.


Regards,

Marcus

This post has been edited by markus: Aug 19 2009, 07:27 PM

My humble advice is, call him again apologize for your negligence of not giving anything in return in the past, reach and agreement or else make a proper offering, give thanks for his help and that next time you'll be more carefull, and dismiss him statiting "until I call you again".
That's my humble, non-expert opinion and advice.

I like this advice, Markus.

If I'm really honest, the main reason why I haven't treated him better is because I've been worried if I did, that it would constitute demonolatry, and I've read that if you do offer to some of them, or are otherwise excessively obsequious with them, they will use that as grounds to lie to you or manipulate you in other ways.

Truthfully, however, I've actually treated him with less civility than I would most people in "real" life, and although I feel as though my conscience has actually been bothering me about that as well, I didn't know whether or not that was simply him inserting ideas into my head, since I read other people saying that they can do that.

I might have to get some more incense in and evoke him again, a little more formally this time, and thank him for his help with my younger brother. I won't go overboard, but I will try and acknowledge what he has done, perhaps.

Hi Petrus,

Magick is a lifelong journey, we must learn to differentiate between our thoughts and what is inserted in our minds, or more precisely, we must "know ourselves" and be ready to detect intrusions on time, this is part of the learning curve. Also, we must develop our own believe system tather than taking as true whatever we read from the "authorities", otherwise we will be on a very soft ground and risk becoming to aprehensive or worse, paranoic.

Develop your self-assurance every day, and don't be afraid of following your own thoughts, your intuition, don't think that every little thing is a manipulation from a spirit. Yes, demons can be tricksters (we humans are too), they can influence you, but you'll know what is coming yourself and what is not.

Sorry for these comments, I'm not an expert on this field, and learning (and making mistakes) every day, but I just wanted to give you some honest tips with the hope of being of some help.

So, I think it'll be a good decision from your part to try to settle the things with the Great King Paimon. It is not demonolatry if that is unnaceptable to you is OK, is just good business manners and good PR with business partners, that's the way I see this. Of course, each and every partner(demon, angel, a girlfriend, wife, etc) will try to manipulate you for one reason or another.

Take care,

Marcus

This post has been edited by markus: Aug 20 2009, 12:00 AM

Truthfully, however, I've actually treated him with less civility than I would most people in "real" life, and although I feel as though my conscience has actually been bothering me about that as well, I didn't know whether or not that was simply him inserting ideas into my head, since I read other people saying that they can do that.

I might have to get some more incense in and evoke him again, a little more formally this time, and thank him for his help with my younger brother. I won't go overboard, but I will try and acknowledge what he has done, perhaps.

Well, hell, there's your problem.

Respect is NOT arrogance, although there's a fine line there. Just because you're in control doesn't give you the right to be an ass. The fact your conscience has been bothering you about this tells me a lot, and I doubt it's because Paimon has been messing with your head. I'd recall him, tell him thanks, I really appreciate the service you gave me, and I'm really sorry for being an ass. I've learned from this and while I'm still the boss, your ass-kicking has taught me a little humility and I promise to do my best to NOT be an ass in the future. That may be a little more direct than what you're aiming for, but I've found with these beings that being direct, though respectful, is what works best. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Try it and see. Civility and a willingness to learn from your honest mistakes will get you far in the spiritual world, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

For the record I've never worked with Paimon, I haven't had a reason to, so take my advice with whatever amount of salt you like. And Markus's post is good advice, too.

Greetings!
*sigh*
Petrus...when I refered to a 'blood-price' I wasn't necessarily suggesting to you to perform a blood sacrifice.
Strength must come from within. I know that you have it in you. As has been stated in other threads on the subject, you must move with surety when you practice evocation. Alliance with Diety may be some peoples path but you can do this without. Take a hard look at some of the disciplines of the martial arts and the Tao. Know thyself. You have the tools needed, you must utilize them.

There are entities and there are entities...some human, others not. Have you ever been in the presence of insanity?
We, as humans, tend to anthropomorphize things. We do this in order to feel more comfortable around them. Human beings are also some of the most xenophobic races in the 'multiverse'. Please review Imperial Arts and Vagrant Dreamers posts on this.
Good journey! Remember also...sometimes problems can be handled without asking demons for help.
.

Paimon doesnt like people that winge and complain LOL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

no serously you are porobley imagining things. I doubt he cares less for the stupid request about human relations and getting a sibling to shut the hell up.

If Paimon actually took the time to do all these things I would be deaply moved and make him my life long familiar hahaha
at the moment I have never met Paimon and dont know how he operates.

but I have done similar things like call up a daemon for some troubles with neighbors and fogot about it and months later seen them have the worst of luck lost everything and had to move out but cant really say it was because of me. just coincidence probley.

I think you should go with the flow. just evoke him again to investigate. if you feel the need to offer sacrafice than feel free. If you feel like he feels disrespected you will know. dont make it too long keep it short okay.

it would be bad to hold a 1 hour meeting to explain why you think you upset him. this would just make things worse.

Thanks for posting all this!

Weirdly enough, I'm going through almost the same situation with something identifying itself as paimon, even though I've never worked specifically with Goetics. I have also worked with Kali, although it sounds like with much less depth and devotion than you have.

I hope you'll post more on this as it resolves.