Controlling Dreams Options

I posted this in the psychic attacks and self-defense forums also, but I thought it was as relevant, if not more so, here.

So, I was just watching a tv show and one of the characters managed to perform a spell that let him weave an illusion into his enemy's mind. I know this is just a TV show, but is it possible that there's a way to take control of someone's dreams, daydreams, or even induce daydreams that you can control? I guess it's sort of like lucid dreaming in somebody else's dream. I'm really interested in mental and psychic things like this, and I've come to believe that you could improve someone's life immeasurably by opening the fables "gate of ivory," from which our happy dreams and closing the "gate of horn," from which spill nightmares. So yeah, if you have any suggestions for this, please tell me.

I would like to add that I am fundamentally opposed to the idea of summoning, so nothing that involves that please. I'm not trying to criticize anyone who does or tell them what to do, just letting you know that I don't do it (the difference between a vegetarian and PeTA, if you get the idea).

NOTE: I deleted the same question in psychic self-defense area...there was no need for two of the same topic! -Bym, Admin

Greetings Ethereal Sight!
LOL! Ok....so 'summoning' isn't your schtick! But....mind control is? I'm not being flippant about this!
Yes, one side of the coin is the ability to grant peace and respite from the weary travails of life by
inducing pleasant dreams and ceasing nightmares. The other side of that coin is the manipulation of ones dreams
and subconcious toward our own aims...hmmmm. The reason I immediately latched on to this was your
statement about summoning and comparing it with vegetarianism and PeTA. Morals go where we wish them to.
And (for the sake of digression and curiosity) what about 'summoning'? Invocation or Evocation?

Back to topic...
Yes, there are many, many methods that can be used to manipulate dreams, lucid dreaming, the concious and the un-concious mind!
Where would you like to start? There are drugs. Medically prescribed drugs, recreational drugs, entheogenic drugs....etc.
There are meditational methods.....introspective, mantric, etc. There are those that require outside assistance, but...we covered that already.
The field of study is vast. You've asked a very broad question that is not easily answered...uh....er, at least by my soggy brains! *grin*
I've become intimately associated with Dreaming over the past 3-4 decades, pondering more than once at the altars of Hypnos and Thanatos.
(I love fantasy writings and could wrap myself up in a good book any day! *grin*) The Gates of Ivory and Horn deal with more than Dreaming.
On a side note...related to drugs but not quite... I've had some great success in opening various 'doors of perception' (thank you Huxley) with the
use of fragrances and scents. Some of the floral scents appear to have a great deal of effect on our limbic system and brain. Scent is also in charge of Taste as well!
But one of the strongests series of scents are derived from flowers: rose, jasmine, hyacinth, gardenia, lavender, wisteria and lilac. There are, of course, many more!
Lilac and jasmine are especially potent (for me) in inducing dreamstate. There are many interesting books out there involved with what you are
looking for! It will take you a lifetime of delving and discovery...but isn't that what it's all about?
An interesting story in Dion Fortunes book, "the Secrets of Dr. Taverner" illustrated how, with the use of a vegetable oil scent and a moonstone, a number of people were
influences into killing themselves by the introduction of a form of dream control. It's good reading and is far from fictional! Check it out!
Good luck btw...I'm still curious about the summoning though...? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/i_triangle.gif)

NOTE: I deleted the same question in psychic self-defense area...there was no need for two of the same topic! -Bym, Admin

Greetings Ethereal Sight!
LOL! Ok....so 'summoning' isn't your schtick! But....mind control is? I'm not being flippant about this!
Yes, one side of the coin is the ability to grant peace and respite from the weary travails of life by
inducing pleasant dreams and ceasing nightmares. The other side of that coin is the manipulation of ones dreams
and subconcious toward our own aims...hmmmm.
....................
Good luck btw...I'm still curious about the summoning though...? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/i_triangle.gif)

Yeah, well for me, summoning bears too much to making a sentient, living being do your bidding without paying them back. Being half black and VERY connected with my ancestry, slavery of anything is abhorrent to me, and I hate the idea of enslaving a spirit. The vegetarian-PeTA thing was a reference to the fact that you can abstain from meat without shoving it in everyone's face, or you can be like PeTA and stage crazy protests because the president killed a fly.

I am a practitioner of my own religion in a way... I don't believe in karma or god. What I DO believe in is to never attack anyone or act hostile for any reason unless that person is a menace to humanity (i don't mean like they-were-mean-to-me-so-they're-evil, i mean like they're-imposing-a-genocide-so-they're-evil). You don't have to worry about me attacking anyone with it, I was asking about it because my friend's dad is dying of cancer and he needs some way to escape from it without doing drugs or anything like that. I am fundamentally against drugs, just because they don't induce anything in my opinion, I think they just screw with your head. I know plants are used for ecstatic trances, but there are other ways to do it. Anyway, you ignored my question; you gave me plenty of tips on how to control my dreaming, but not that of others.

Yes...I did ignore your request, purposely. Nor will I hand the method(s) to a 14 year old who isn't willing to go and do the work or labor to find an answer. Maybe you were raised to believe that anything you want will be given to you without reservation. Not by me...maybe someone else will help. Though I did give you some interesting avenues to explore. Scents are not considered drugs. They do have powerful effects on the limbic cortex and can influence the sleep mechanism. Hypnosis is another avenue. I'm sorry to hear about the cancer. That is tough for everyone involved, my Dad died from pancreatic cancer back at the turn of the century. In the end the morphine took him, quietly and peacefully. I think that the hospice nurses do that for the terminal patients. He died at home with the family around him.
Summoning does not mean subjagation! When you call out to a friend to join you you are not 'forcing' him/her to do so! The idea that all mages force spirits to compliance with their will is not very accurate. Yes, there are ritual/formula that do this...but they stem from religious intolerance and oppression. These religions also condemn homosexuality, womans rights and freedom of speech/lifestyle. I do not support those views! Sometimes, though, force is required to save your neck! Being chummy with astral parasites will gain you nothing but aggravation, pain, misery and even death! No thanks! See...there is alot more to these things than what you may have surmised. I can see that by your young age and by what you state to be reality for you, that you are a very gifted person. All the more reason to really do your homework about a subject before you flail away at it, *sigh* but that is something one learns (usually) by experience. At 14 you have limited experience. No shame, I hope that you have a long and productive life....you will gain much by it!

If you drink tea or coffee, you are doing drugs. If you eat lots of sugar, you are doing drugs. If you take an aspirin, you are doing drugs. I hope that you continue with your drug-free lifestyle! You'll be healthier for it! But...not all drugs are bad and they actually do something or nobody would take them! Like I said before, cancer is a bear. If this man can battle this affliction without drugs, good for him! Again, try meditation and/or hypnosis. They can alleviate alot of pain. Different foods can have a holistic and healthful effect as well. Essiac tea was once touted as being very helpful against cancer...but that would be considered a drug in your eyes. So, how would you alleviate this mans affliction using mind/dream control? Would he be aware of it and give his permission? Note that unless he has progressed too far along he can learn these methods himself, thereby releaving you of the responsibility. Perhaps he should be seen by a legitimate healer? Are you studying to be a healer? Things to ponder. I wish you well and to your friends Dad, the very best!

Yes...I did ignore your request, purposely. Nor will I hand the method(s) to a 14 year old who isn't willing to go and do the work or labor to find an answer. Maybe you were raised to believe that anything you want will be given to you without reservation. Not by me...maybe someone else will help. Though I did give you some interesting avenues to explore. Scents are not considered drugs. They do have powerful effects on the limbic cortex and can influence the sleep mechanism. Hypnosis is another avenue. I'm sorry to hear about the cancer. That is tough for everyone involved, my Dad died from pancreatic cancer back at the turn of the century. In the end the morphine took him, quietly and peacefully. I think that the hospice nurses do that for the terminal patients. He died at home with the family around him.
Summoning does not mean subjagation! When you call out to a friend to join you you are not 'forcing' him/her to do so! The idea that all mages force spirits to compliance with their will is not very accurate. Yes, there are ritual/formula that do this...but they stem from religious intolerance and oppression. These religions also condemn homosexuality, womans rights and freedom of speech/lifestyle. I do not support those views! Sometimes, though, force is required to save your neck! Being chummy with astral parasites will gain you nothing but aggravation, pain, misery and even death! No thanks! See...there is alot more to these things than what you may have surmised. I can see that by your young age and by what you state to be reality for you, that you are a very gifted person. All the more reason to really do your homework about a subject before you flail away at it, *sigh* but that is something one learns (usually) by experience. At 14 you have limited experience. No shame, I hope that you have a long and productive life....you will gain much by it!

If you drink tea or coffee, you are doing drugs. If you eat lots of sugar, you are doing drugs. If you take an aspirin, you are doing drugs. I hope that you continue with your drug-free lifestyle! You'll be healthier for it! But...not all drugs are bad and they actually do something or nobody would take them! Like I said before, cancer is a bear. If this man can battle this affliction without drugs, good for him! Again, try meditation and/or hypnosis. They can alleviate alot of pain. Different foods can have a holistic and healthful effect as well. Essiac tea was once touted as being very helpful against cancer...but that would be considered a drug in your eyes. So, how would you alleviate this mans affliction using mind/dream control? Would he be aware of it and give his permission? Note that unless he has progressed too far along he can learn these methods himself, thereby releaving you of the responsibility. Perhaps he should be seen by a legitimate healer? Are you studying to be a healer? Things to ponder. I wish you well and to your friends Dad, the very best!

I find it ridiculous that you thought it was appropriate or reasonable at all to assume that I haven't done research or work on this myself. I mean, let's be honest, what do you know about me? I've been working on hypnosis for months now and if I had the money then aromatherapy would be something to look at. Resident Curmudgeon is right, you're rude and judgmental of people you don't know anything about. What do you think gives you the right to attack me like that based off of nothing at all except your own random assumptions that aren't even based off of anything except a majorly bad attitude. I would appreciate an apology for telling me I was raised wrong and lazy. Also, you carelessly assumed my friend was a man. He's thirteen and his brother is twelve and right now they'll take any help they can get.

This post has been edited by Ethereal Sight: Mar 14 2010, 01:32 PM

Take it as you will. I will PM this response to you.
Now....
Back on topic!

So, I was just watching a tv show and one of the characters managed to perform a spell that let him weave an illusion into his enemy's mind. I know this is just a TV show, but is it possible that there's a way to take control of someone's dreams, daydreams, or even induce daydreams that you can control? I guess it's sort of like lucid dreaming in somebody else's dream.

No disrespect to you. You're obviously a smart guy. And you said you wanted to learn about this stuff mainly to help your friend's dad and that is commendable. Many of us on this site and most else where (but certainly not EVERY where) have an ethical standard about using any form of magick against another's will or in a way that can harm them or cause them to lose their personal freedoms.

All I am saying its just the way you phrased it, it sounds like you want to learn to usurp another individual's will over their dreams. Again you mean well but the road to hell is almost always paved with good intentions.

The best I'd be willing to help you out with is shared dreaming - which is consentual. You don't need to worry about taking over anyone's will nor do you have to be an expert to try this stuff. And you don't have to worry about hurting anyone or summoning crazy spirits or anything like that.

But we've also already covered the topic of shared dreaming so here are some links to some relevent threads on this subject: If you have questions I really don't care if you ask in this thread or in these other ones. I can try to help you out but I've been really sick these past few days and I seem to only make it online a few times a week. So if nothing else be patient.

http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=5431
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7252
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=7172
http://www.sacred-magick.org/index.php?showtopic=5049

You might also look up "shared dreaming" online just to find some other sources. For those links I posted I mostly shared my knowledge on the subject. It might be a good idea to sort of cross reference information from alternate sources.

Collective consciousness, telepathic matrix, akashic records and healing through self hypnosis are also things I would look into. Maybe you already have. If so then you should be able to incorperate what you already know when any other information you can use.

Good luck to you though!

This post has been edited by Acid09: Mar 22 2010, 09:37 PM