Influencing External Vs Internal Change Options

Over the years I seem to have gotten fairly good at using magick to bring about favourable circumstances in my life. Jobs, money, partners, etc. Nothing spectacular, my results could be written off as coincidences but once you get a certain amount of "coincidences" you start to realise that perhaps they aren't really coincidences... But, as a sufferer of mild anxiety and depression, I have often tried to use magick to influence my internal climate, with very little success.

Lately I have been using my daily practice of the LBRP to influence my life. When invoking the archangels, I will talk to them and ask them to grant me small favours... The results have been quite impressive when it comes to external events (one example of many is that I had problems with my feelings for a workmate. It was problematic because I had a boyfriend, and the situation had been bad for quite some time. I asked the archangels for help, and the very same day, he got fired! Which isn't as bad as it sounds for him as he was getting quite tired of wokring there anyway, and from conversations I had with him afterwards it seemed that him getting fired - or rather, being asked to resign, but with good references - had worked out in his favour. This is just one example fo the "coincidences" I've had). Yet I have hardly had any success at all in alleviating my anxiety, depression, or my moderate substance abuse through the use of the LBRP or any magick at all!

Any similar experiences? Advice, theories, etc?

Over the years I seem to have gotten fairly good at using magick to bring about favourable circumstances in my life. Jobs, money, partners, etc. Nothing spectacular, my results could be written off as coincidences but once you get a certain amount of "coincidences" you start to realise that perhaps they aren't really coincidences... But, as a sufferer of mild anxiety and depression, I have often tried to use magick to influence my internal climate, with very little success.

Lately I have been using my daily practice of the LBRP to influence my life. When invoking the archangels, I will talk to them and ask them to grant me small favours... The results have been quite impressive when it comes to external events (one example of many is that I had problems with my feelings for a workmate. It was problematic because I had a boyfriend, and the situation had been bad for quite some time. I asked the archangels for help, and the very same day, he got fired! Which isn't as bad as it sounds for him as he was getting quite tired of wokring there anyway, and from conversations I had with him afterwards it seemed that him getting fired - or rather, being asked to resign, but with good references - had worked out in his favour. This is just one example fo the "coincidences" I've had). Yet I have hardly had any success at all in alleviating my anxiety, depression, or my moderate substance abuse through the use of the LBRP or any magick at all!

Any similar experiences? Advice, theories, etc?

((IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)) anxiety and depression are usually influences from past lives, so all the lbrps in the world are not going to resolve it - got to look under the hood and see what happened when you were a squirrel living in a yard with a bunch of cats, or whatever your situation was- some, after looking, say it was prison or the camps(!), some say it was war and famine, and some say it was just plain ol worrisome life that is influencing them now - whatever your situation was, becoming aware of it doesn't make it go away but you know what is eating at you and, after a bit of work in its direction, the influence can be minimized - it is far mor than self-forgiveness for past lives sins bullshit - as we get further into the beam and the energy increases, we are increasingly connected with our true selves and more aware of what we were and are - also, energy is at a low right now, but will return around the autumn equinox - i can't wait personally, as i'm penniless, irritable and just flat, waiting for the tide to come back in, hopefully it will be a tsunami!!!

Yet I have hardly had any success at all in alleviating my anxiety, depression, or my moderate substance abuse through the use of the LBRP or any magick at all!

Well bells and whistles just went off inside my head when I read that last part. Either you are an addict or you are not. So take this with a grain of salt and believe me I won't be hurt if you thumb your nose at me. Only you can really say for certain how "moderate" your substance abuse. Addictions councilors have a word for that - minamizing. Basically when an addict saying things like "Oh I only need to have a few drinks" or "oh my drinking is not a problem" or "I only get a little high I don't get too messed up" they are minimizing the true scope of their addiction and using it as an excuse to lessen their situation and make it seem more managable. Ultimately its not us you're foolin, just yourself. And

Of course there are a meriad of other wonderful buzz words that describe the pathology of true addicts. And no ill judgement on my part. In life we all go down the road in our own vehicles. If how live gets you where you want to be then you have it made. You mentioned substance abuse amung the list of things that you seem to not be able to overcome or alter through magickal means. Therefore it stands to reason it is not a desirable aspect of your life. Understand it is very unlikely that you will be able to simply "reduce" the amount or somehow meek out a life where you do both - get high and live up to your standards. It is also very likely that the abuse ties into the other negative things in your life.

Really there is no magick bullet that will fix everything and make life perfect. Even if you didn't abuse (name your poison), you're still going to have ups and downs. Depression and axiety are a part of life. You might not realize it this because we tend to view these things as "deseases" when in reality they are not, just reactions of our bodies and minds towards stress in life. And stress will always be there. If you think your usage is keeping you back in life then that is where I would start to make the change. Remember the truely wise magician does not seek to change the world through "magick" but awareness. The more aware one is of themselves and their environment, the more control they can exert over it. By taking command of your life and yourself and getting into something like a 12 step program and/or NA/AA you can start to truely with this and overcome something that I believe is contributing to a lot of other negative things in your life. And in a year or so when you can look back and see how different you feel, how much better you feel and you'll look back and say - wow now that was magickal!

Of course maybe you do not want to stop your life style. Maybe you are not technically an "addict". Only you can tell yourself what to do. So look into yourself to find that inner awareness and figure out what you want to try to do to make a change for the better.

And thats about all I have for you. I hope it helps.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Sep 9 2008, 08:40 PM

Those are mental disorders which I suffer from too (not addiction though). I see it the same as having poor eyesight or asthma, unless you’re a very powerful magician your going to have to get glasses or an inhaler. Other than that I’d keep praying to angels, yoga, affirmations and meditating etc. . .the reality is, if the occult isn’t working then medication and or therapy is needed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif)

'the man' is very good at trapping us into not doing our life missions through the use of substances engineered to work with our chemical receptors and keep us down and firmly under his thumb

having righteous anger at the man and his bastard slaves for making the trapping chemicals in the first place is a good answer

change yourself to change reality

es

'the man' is very good at trapping us into not doing our life missions through the use of substances engineered to work with our chemical receptors and keep us down and firmly under his thumb

having righteous anger at the man and his bastard slaves for making the trapping chemicals in the first place is a good answer

change yourself to change reality

es

I would have killed myself without medication because of actual proven problems in my biochemistry. Holding stones, sitting silently and sniffing herbs wont change my biochemistry. I don’t see how “the man” aka some random rich white dude is controlling me. In fact its helping me achieve things as a minority its something the man wouldn‘t like. I’m really not a fan of these racist “the man” conspiracy crap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/badmood.gif)

not racist or even sexist lol - the concept of 'the man' keeping us down goes way back to anytime there was someone looking to keep power for themselves and their slaves under control - we are slaves, not to a pile of paper known as money, or 1's and 0's in some computer file, but to the man, and produce according to the man's whip - the man is supposedly responsible for us and our economy, and really we not expendable for the man depends on us to produce so the man can cream off our production - even our ability to produce, aka credit, is leveraged by the man for the man's benefit, and inability to pay results in loss of privileges, and even further slavery, again, not to some plastic card or a pile of paper, but to the man - i think of the man more as a freddy kreuger puppeteer than some rich white dude- i suppose one could substitute 'elites' instead of 'the man', but i remember the gray panthers, and how they stuck it to the man, and it is in their honor that i use the term

to finish the thought - the man isn't responsible for your biochemistry, i suppose that ultimately, you are responsible for it? - interesting thought - if i need to use glasses, and i do, is that giving in or adapting? - if i need real doctor-type meds to control something, is taking them a cop-out to my magickal beliefs that i can chnage myself? - i remember something on 60 minutes or something years ago, where a bunch of religious leaders in some cult or other quit wearing their glasses as a statement that they belived fully in the ability of their god to heal them of the need for glasses - truly a quandary! - i suppose it comes down to belief, as long as you weren't in the desert island scenario where you have no choice but to go for magick as there is no doctor available - "do i endanger myself by not taking meds, or do i have belief enough in my magickal abilities to make it work?" - i'm thinking more like: "would you use magick to cover a wound, or just use a band-aid?" - "physician, heal thyself" also comes to mind, but in this case its "magician, heal thyself" - interesting, i will have to thing more on this - a nice koan, thanks!

of course the proper method is to take the doctor meds until get it fixed magically enough to survive without them - it is the sensible thing to do as magick has so many variables and the the little pills have those variables minimized by removing the uncertainties, and it gives you time to fix it magically - te be content with taking the meds is the greater error, imo

man oh man, your post is bringing the insights and thoughtforms hard and fast - and what is the difference between the 'science' that the doctor uses to formulate his little pills, and 'magick', is it some sort of 'understanding'? - and how do they decide what goes in the little pills? - are they just refomulated and repackaged herbs? - would the ancient barber-doctor practice of bleeding from the left or right sides of the body be 'science' or 'magick'? - is a ritual, a form of 'science' or 'magick?' - wow, chock full of good things to ponder while holding stones and sitting silenlty surrounded by smoking herbs lol - is there really such a thing as substance abuse since we are substance, and what defines 'abuse' of what substance? - oh what a wonderful thing the human mind is! - is it abuse if one abuses salt? - sugar? - vegtable oil? - hypgnosis? - why?

its good to get 'out there' every so often, and look around at what humans call life - , i guess i've been abusing the awareness of the void, and lost my humanity again,

es

This post has been edited by esoterica: Sep 10 2008, 07:42 AM

Ok. I'm new here. This is my first post. My main focus is chaos magic although I have decades background in eastern mysticism. I am a medical writer and editor (and also have a past history of depression and anxiety disorder). Chronic depression and anxiety can be related to oppressive things that are going on in your life but they also are neurochemical problems. Both my magick and all of my training in meditation and yogic disciplines have been geared toward establishing internal change to modify external events. There certainly are thought-transformation techniques that can help you overcome anxiety and depression--but if the condition is long-standing, persons often need more help than do-it-yourself stuff, which can end up being detrimental because you keep putting off getting real help. Rather than trying to figure out how to magically alleviate your mood disorder --which is admittedly causing you to self-medicate through substance abuse--you need to speak to a doctor and perhaps a mental health counselor. A doctor might give you medication for anxiety and depression--or at least give you a thorough exam to figure out if there is physical reason for why you feel the way you do. A mental health counselor will probably 1) suggest that you take medication for a short term . This isn't meant to "zombify" or "control" you; it is meant to help correct the messed up brain chemistry that prolonged states of depression and anxiety cause. 2) provide cognitive and behavioral therapy so that you can better understand what is going on in your interpersonal interactions that might be contributing to your mood and help you behave more effectively (and actually force the people around you to change in reaction to the change in you.) I myself did not take medication for my anxiety disorder although it was severe. It took a very long time to get over the physical symptoms that anxiety disorder can cause. I was in therapy and then began to practice in a highly aerobic, rigorous, type of yoga that mostly focused on strengthening the lymphatic and nervous system. and I benefitted greatly from it. That all took place over 10 years ago. As for magic, I mostly work with sigils and astral journeying, but I myself would never recommend that you create a sigil or perform some magical ritual instead of getting professional medical help.

Thanks for your replies everyone.

Re the substance abuse - I don't consider myself to be an addict of any particular substance (bar nicotine), but I suppose I am addicted to the euphoric, calming feeling I get with intoxication through substances or situations (even really strong ginger tea produces this in me to some effect so we're not only talking about hardcore substances here!). I definitely don't need a 12-step program. But yes, I do self-medicate. It isn't staying drug or alcohol free that is the problem, because I can do that, it's finding the joie de vivre in normal everyday life that is. I was a bit inaccurate in saying that I have tried to influence my substance abuse through magick, it would be more accurate to say that I have tried to influence my sober life through magick, in order to be able to influence my moods in the same way that I could using substances. Without success, obviously.

My anxiety or depression isn't severe enough for me to believe that medication is worth it (as I said, it is mild in ordinary circumstances). I have found ways to alleviate it using mundane means - nutrition, exercise, rest, the usual. I was just a bit perplexed as to how difficult it is to influence my moods when I seem to be able to manifest other things when I dedicate myself to it. I suppose the most annoying thing is, even when I am getting everything right life-style wise and I don't feel anxious or depressed, I still just feel 'meh', just quite unenthusiastic about everything, and hence the temptation to self-medicate. When I was younger, magick gave me joie de vivre, but I suppose I was a lot more enthusiastic overall back then (and also a lot more depressed and anxious!). But I am seriously considering CBT, as people seem to recommend it.

I'm actually reading an interesting book by Taylor Ellwood, "Internal Alchemy", about changing your brain chemistry among other things, but I still think I have much to learn before I could be successful in anything like that.

Edit: Another thing that I wanted to add that I forgot to say in the initial post is that I started doing Reiki a few months ago, and it's the same with that - I have success when healing my own physical pain, like say a stomachache caused by period pains, but no success in healing a stomachache caused by nervousness, and no success in any way ameliorating my moods with the use of Reiki. I suppose it makes sense, as emotions are deeper rooted, but its damn frustrating!

This post has been edited by cassiopeia: Sep 17 2008, 10:08 AM

It hink that your main problem seems to be that you are using magick in a backward sort of way. We use our spirits, our minds, and our wills, to focus our intent, do our rituals, and thus create the desired effects. While magick can be used for inner purposes and in fact leads towards such inner purposes in many cases, there is something to be said for focusing and training the mind prior to magickal practice.

Personally, i would suggest a regimen of self-exploration, coupled with a a focus on mediation to clear your mind. In my opinion, if you can clear the mental and emotional clutter, and understand the why behind your mental processes, you will have a lot more luck with improving and exploring your inner spirit.

It hink that your main problem seems to be that you are using magick in a backward sort of way. We use our spirits, our minds, and our wills, to focus our intent, do our rituals, and thus create the desired effects. While magick can be used for inner purposes and in fact leads towards such inner purposes in many cases, there is something to be said for focusing and training the mind prior to magickal practice.

Personally, i would suggest a regimen of self-exploration, coupled with a a focus on mediation to clear your mind. In my opinion, if you can clear the mental and emotional clutter, and understand the why behind your mental processes, you will have a lot more luck with improving and exploring your inner spirit.

i have to agree i think that what you might need to do, cassiopeia, is take a look on the inside. i could be wrong on this and if so i apologize, but you strike me as the type of girl that loves to have a lot of things happen around you or maybe your an introvert, but whatever the case you seem to be searching for everything to prove your self worth and uniqueness to yourself instead of looking in the mirror and just accepting what you see now. there is a lot of people i know, know of, etc. that start to delve into magick on a whim of how cool they would be, how different they would be, etc.

these people delve deeper and deeper into it when it starts to work for them. the test the limits more and more and become "Powerful wizards/witches" and end up being able to "control" every aspect of their life and end up being slaves to their addiction aka magick.
the more you find yourself doing that's "unique" the more you find that inner voice that tells you who you are fading into silence.

true magick is being able to walk. being able to wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night. everything in between you create as your own "alchemist" for lack of a better word. so maybe its the inner you warning yourself that your fading fast and you need to do some immediate inner work to find your roots.

like i said if im wrong grain of salt... if not i suggest taking a walk outside and listening to the wind and laughing at things you find funny no matter where or who's around. if you can still do that there may be hope left
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/connie_mini_oldman.gif)

Those are fair points, and yes, it could be said that I am performing magick in a backward way. I must stress that my number one goal in the use of magick, ever since I first became interested at age 15, has been spiritual development. Now how much further on that path magick has taken me, I can't say. I perform the LBRP twice daily the majority of the time, and my original hopes were for it to balance me, but instead it seems to have the effect of balancing my life, that is, externally rather than internally. My life runs smoother, there are less stressful circumstances, but I have not noticed any internal changes that were separate from the changes brought on by having less stressful circumstances. Perhaps the external effects are more immediate and the internal ones take a longer time. That's the only explanation I can think of.

I am focusing on clearing the clutter in my mind, and that has been my number one priority in life for the past seven months or so. There has been progress, but I wish I could use magick to help me speed up that progress. I don't think that there's anything wrong with me using magick to influence my external surroundings in the meantime though - doing a ritual and realising that it worked helps me keep my faith in there being something greater than the mundane world, even if it is something so simple as making it easier for me to find a job that I like. And anyway, why shouldn't one practice? There is overdoing it to the extreme, but that's not what I'm doing.

I have one idea that I'm considering though - create a spell, perhaps a servitor that will point me towards situations and things (eg CBT, but that one I thought of myself) that will help me develop mentally/emotionally/spiritually, because that would be using magick to influence external events, but would lead to internal change.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/doh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lightning.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Lighten.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/roflmao.gif)

the most basic of lessons is the one we have the hardest time learning isn't it? hun, all you need is patience. its the harder of the lessons but when it clicks its the easiest to do. you don't need magick for any of the things your tryna do. the inner clutter is gonna go with time. trust me i know. magick might take it away but there will be more down the line. the best way to get rid of a problem is to let it leave of its own accord. its the thing that doesn't make sense but does. if a kid is being a pest what do you do? if it's a kid you don't know do you strike them? do you love them and try to talk to them in a friendly way? if it doesn't work then what? ignore them? or do you just know their there accept it and let themselves tire out get bored and go away. patience is a virtue for a reason. it's the thing NONE of us wanna do and the thing all of us should to make this world a better place. it's simple. do me a favor:

leave the problems alone for a while. know they are there don't ignore them, just let them do their thing. if in a month their still there come back and talk about what specifically is wrong cuz they should be evidently clear by then what the real problem is... don't come back a sec. before unless they are gone. can your try this? if it don't work what do you have to lose?

if anyone objects with this please let me know so i can defend my case but im sure you'll see i'm correct in this, patience is what we could all use and let this be that reminder (IMG:style_emoticons/default/victory.gif)

I may be redundant here as I just skimmed the posts. I think the substance abuse has been covered. The point I would like to make is about the "coincidences" THERE IS NO SUCH THING. This theory was presented to us at the center I spent 15 yrs with, and methods to track and follow the circumstances that led to the "coincidence". That out of the way it took 20 yrs for me to realize that there is more to the "coincidences", then our own actions this (may not be accurate actually, I just don't know how to explain it). Having had that as part of my training made a big difference while watching the Celestine Prophecy (the Movie didn't read the books).

I began to follow the "coincidences" to see where they lead. As I did they lead me to bigger and bigger decisions, they were also harder, and defied some rational thinking, as seen form the usual common stand point, anyway. Some were very much the Fool of the Tarot. Scary at times. Still is if I go back to the old thinking.

Where did it all lead?

It lead me to teach in Holland, I have had the experience of a life time doing that. And it cost me nothing in fact I do well there. I toured 5 or 6 countries so far. I want to expand to Germany for some reason... However there are no "coincidences" leading me to do that. Made more difficult as many of the Dutch still have a problem when it comes to Germany. Understandable but time to let go in my opinion, but I understand. They lead me to retire very scary. No Medical and no income. My retirement check went into Metals as I could not take it with out loosing 50% of it. Result I have not lost a dime and if the bottom falls out I still have something with worth. When I need it a check comes out of the blue, I am waiting for one now the state has for me. If you are into Material things then this is not for you although all that is needed seems to be provided. It is not for the nervous to run you life on "coincidences"

It has been totally magickal however. Totally amazing. I now look at everything a why me and why now. The more I follow the more I understand what it is I am here to do.

We create these "coincidences" all the time through unconscious wish. They are more interesting if you sit down and create them. I experimented with that in the center. Hess tought a wish exercise. Those that did it soon learned not to. You learn that Be careful what you wish for, is not just some idle warning. Once you follow the "coincidences" the power of wish either gets stronger, you just notice it more, or both. You defiantly notice them more. I think it allows the higher self for have a more direct influence. Something you may or may not want, at my age and situation (caused by allowing this) it doesn't matter. I don't need fancy clothes or cars or anything none of that matters anyway.

Once you start down that road I think there is no going back. I don't think one would want to go back to the old way of distractions anyway. The real magick begins I think when one realizes that there is no Magick. You do get to feel that you are in a bubble and what is going on around you is not real... it kind of makes ya immune to all the stuff going on. Kind of nice considering we are in deep doo doo which is getting deeper all the time.

Follow the "coincidences" it will be amazing. Many times like you friend that got fired. Sounds like a product of a combined wish at least on your part and his. As many times following coincidences is, and as the usual if you keep going where it leads it winds up Ok or better, most of the time amazing results come about. As I said it is not for the faint at heart. It is a better alternative then just letting it happen unconsciously. Unconsciously you have no control, consciously you have control of sorts. What you get is where you should be at any given time. The right person in the right place at the right time. Not always a party, but that is life and a hell of a lot more interesting.

Krell

Just wanted to add an update to this thread, now that I, about half a year later have come much closer to solving my own problem.

I have always seen the sense in this kind of viewpoint:

It hink that your main problem seems to be that you are using magick in a backward sort of way. We use our spirits, our minds, and our wills, to focus our intent, do our rituals, and thus create the desired effects. While magick can be used for inner purposes and in fact leads towards such inner purposes in many cases, there is something to be said for focusing and training the mind prior to magickal practice.

Personally, i would suggest a regimen of self-exploration, coupled with a a focus on mediation to clear your mind. In my opinion, if you can clear the mental and emotional clutter, and understand the why behind your mental processes, you will have a lot more luck with improving and exploring your inner spirit.

...But just couldn't find a way to do it for ages. It's like there was too much clutter, anxiety, depression and the like for me to be able to focus. I could never stick to meditating, because it often ended up making me feel worse rather than better. And I couldn't really think of any other tools I had for clearing this clutter, which is why I had hoped that magick would do it for me. But, evidently it didn't. Well I'm not much for conventional medicine, never really have been, so I went to see an energy therapist, who I am still seeing, and with her I learned to use EFT (emotional freedom technique) to clear patterns of anxiety and depression. The four sessions I've had with her so far have cleared the debris to a level where I don't feel daily anxiety and depression so much and I am starting to feel more enthusiastic and have more joie de vivre. I'm still working with EFT and there's more to be done, however for the first time I have started a daily meditation practice that I am sticking to. It has only been just over one week, but considering the fact that I am actually enjoying meditating, whereas before I could hardly sit for two minutes in meditation before I got more and more frustrated, that's some progress!

I've sort of put ritual magick on the sideline for now, although I still practice the LBRP quite often, and want to get back to doing it daily - (part of the reason why I don't do it so often is because I now have flatmates that are home all the time, and it takes your focus off when you keep wondering whether you're vibrating too loud and whether they can hear you making those strange noises! I can't wait to live in my own flat so I can vibrate as loud as I want to, for full effect! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)) I've developed a passion for energy healing and that is the path I am going down for now, this is something I really want to learn, and what better way to become a healer than to first heal yourself? I've started looking into Qi-Gong as well, and took my first class today. Overall, although I have my ups and downs, when I look back at the past two months (since I started my therapy), I can see so much growth. And I know I'm just at the beginning of a very exciting journey with this healing!

This post has been edited by cassiopeia: Jan 10 2009, 12:11 PM

I didn't read through all the posts, but if nobody has suggested it, a quick-fix for depression is a candle. Light the candle and say to it (or outloud, I prefer to talk to the candle) "I light you to take away my depression. Every moment this candle burns I will feel less depressed" or something along those lines.

Most magicians seem to have depression, at least some of the best ones do. I know because the few I know have loads of depression and they're so kickass it's not even funny. I do get depression of course, but I'm more optimistic than most, and whenever I light a candle for a friend, relative, or myself to relieve depression, the effect is always happier or at least more content within a couple hours or at most a day later.

Now I know most would say "those are just minor cases of depression that would just go away within a couples hours anyway", but I'm talking about suicidal people here that I've done this for. I'm not trying to get attention having people think I'm a great and powerful magician, just trying to give people simple options that could possibly save a life.

As a side note a good quality magic oil like peace oil (not the cheap crap found in most occult shops, I mean the real kind made by a practitioner) is a huge help with the candle spells to relieve depression.

If anybody needs some free candle spells for healing or to relieve depression, PM me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)