Chi Kung For Magicians Options

Which is the best form or school of Qi Gong, one that works well with a persons development as a magician?

Have been practicing yoga for a while now and its benefits are astounding, wasnt keen on Qi Gong as the slow movements seemed to go against my more firery temperament but after much back and forth regarding the benefits of the two, yoga and qi gong, someone said it... that Qi Gong teaches you how to manipulate energy, yoga dosent, at least not at all in the same way. Sounds glaringly obvious but it swayed my opinion which was one for the marriage of yoga and magick as the perfect matrimony, being able to open physically blocked channels and assume new positions marking the progress of development etc.

Surprised to read just how many variations of Qi Gong there are, some involving elements such as sound into things and so I thought I'd ask and get a better opinion on which form would go well with Magick, am looking into the Alchemy of Baguazhang...

Think this should be in the Eastern section, forum has been sloooooow recently, not even sure if anyone is around (IMG:style_emoticons/default/face08.gif)

Peace
.M.

Mchawi said:

Which is the best form or school of Qi Gong, one that works well with a persons development as a magician?

All and none. Not a mystical answer, just my big disagreement with how Qi Gong is taught.

Enroll in a school, read some books, and they all say, "Do these movements to control the flow of chi". Practice, practice, practice, show that you are dedicated to learning, and in a decade or so you will have a private conversation with the master of the school who will say, "Now you can be taught the inner techniques to control chi".

What a bunch of baloney.

The "inner techniques" are those involving the mind (imagination, will, sensation) along with the movements. Without them Qi-Gong is like a sip of water to a person dying of thirst; yes, over time there is a habitual control of chi established but it is usually very weak. Why aren't they taught at the start? The usual explanation is that the student must be "prepared", the power of chi could be "overwhelming". More baloney. Development of the inner techniques is as slow as the physical and, based on a lot of experiments and developments in the West on moving chi, many of the "overwhelming" problems a student can run into are easily corrected. Also, many of the "inner techniques" in Qi-Gong are less effective than they could be because they are purely based on tradition and the student is warned never to deviate from them so no attempt at improving them has been attempted in thousands of years.

This all assumes that you learn from a school with a lineage from past masters and an actual knowledge of the inner forms; many so-called "schools" today have been started by students who were never taught any of the inner forms.

OK, I'm finished with my rant. My advice: enroll in a school, learn the forms and movements and at the same time study some of the Western methods for moving chi (New Energy Ways and Quantum Touch are the simplest to learn that I know) and then apply them to your Qi-Gong practice. With the combination you'll quickly sense the difference from just doing the forms with concentration. It still requires time, concentration and practice but the results are worth it. Just don't tell your Qi-Gong teacher what you're doing; most get apoplectic at the idea that there are better ways to move chi than what they know.

Perhaps I have been lucky but I've never had the experience of a teacher holding back 'inner techniques.' Most often you learn Qigong in Taiji classes. You might also learn it in other martial arts classes, but a class focused only on Qigong is harder to find. When I began learning Qigong back in the '80s it was horribly hard to find out any information. The only books I found were in China and they weren't especially good by today's standards. Now in my city, we have probably five good Taiji teachers who can teach Qigong well. There are a couple of Kungfu teachers who can teach martial arts Qigong, and one Bagua teacher who I assume is competent, although I haven't had a chance to check him out yet. In about the 90s, books came out by authors such as Mantak Chia, Yang Jwing-Yin, etc. They began to come out with some videos, but as it is today they are a mixed bag of useful and schlock. Now they have a fair amount of exercises demonstrated on You Tube. Some are good and some are bad, but they have the value of being free. Books are useful but seeing the exercises done and seen from different angles adds another dimension for practitioners. It doesn't entirely replace having an actual teacher, but can be a valuable addition. Mantak Chia's books tend to be a bit dumbed down or oversimplified, but this is perhaps necessary with beginners. Most of his books cover the microcosmic orbit, a favourite basic exercise. I also like Bruce Kumar Frantzis and his books.

I teach Qigong classes and I usually have people feeling their energy and being able to circulate their energy in the microcosmic orbit within four months on the average. Once you can do the microcosmic orbit then you will be able to experiment and move your energy in other patterns and other parts of your body--or outside of your body. The microcosmic orbit teaches you a lot about moving energy around. It acts as a 'seed exercise' as well. You learn to do it and other exercises and practices grow out of it and can be combined with it. I see moving energy as being easy. My old teacher used to say "Energy follows intent." By that he meant that if you focus your mind on anything-- for instance your right hand-- your Qi will naturally follow your focus. If you can feel it you will notice that much of your energy begins to flow into your right hand. If you focus on your left foot then your energy will begin to flow into and flood your left foot. Whether you can feel it or not that is what is happening.

There are exercises specifically to develop sensitivity, but generally speaking as your energy becomes stronger and healthier you become more sensitive to energy. Being able to sense energy is useful in many ways if only in building your confidence that you are actually doing something valid rather than just waving your arms and legs around. I generally give people about 15 exercises and tell them to choose the ones they like the most and practice them regularly. I try to give them a variety of different exercises to choose from. They are more likely to do it regularly if they enjoy it. At the beginner level it is like any physical exercise or like joining the gym. It takes a few months of regular work to get into condition and to build up your strength.

In general I agree with the above. Just about any school of Chi Kung will lead to competency if you apply yourself and learn the principles behind the practices. One particular school is not much better than any other in that regard, although some are more thorough than others. Ultimately to learn the full breadth there is no one tradition to study in that you will find concentrated in one place. In part this is due to the breadth of the practice itself, and in part it is because different teachers find themselves able to teach different skills.

Perhaps the most useful thing I learned about the movement of Chi, had to do with understanding what it actually means. From a western point of view we think of moving energy almost as taking hold of something and directing it to something else. Even in Yoga you are expected to relax into a posture, but 'hold' a posture. In Chi Kung, moving chi is about intentional and confident movement of energy, both physically and psychically.

This is the real point of learning to break things in martial arts practice - if you hesitate, the energy will not flow properly and the board/brick will not break. However, if you set your intention, and direct energy -past- the object, then execute that intention without hesitation, you will break the object and (with proper alignment) not injure yourself. It does not take any traditional chi kung training to accomplish this - children do it with zero internal training - but it is more than just physical mechanics too. When directing energy internally is done in the same way (with the same direction of intent, not the application of breaking) then moving Chi becomes effortless.

After that principle is grasped, any school of practice will be useful in terms of unblocking energy. Whether you will learn this principle from any given school or not is the question to ask when you begin doing their work (whether it's a book, a teacher, a video, etc.) I have only had a single Chi Kung instructor proper, and she indicated to me that although there are many esoteric methods in many schools of practice, really the 'secret' teachings of Chi Kung boil down to daily practice allowing Chi to do what is in it's nature, and that if you practice keeping your energy unblocked, Chi can flow unimpeded, and will do those things because that is the nature of Chi. That our unhealthy habits are the product of blockages that confuse our instincts.

When there are no blockages, the Chi flows; when Chi flows properly, the body seeks harmony; as the body seeks harmony, our health improves; if we maintain this state, our chi will be more plentiful; plentiful chi leads to all manner of wonders.

peace

Wow. Thanks for the replies, can understand Waterfalls frustrations with staged or initiated schools of thought. The bandwagon has been jumped in on it seems and there are different approaches of it being taught, some applying traditional methods and what they may feel is of importance to them while others tend toward a bit more of an open approach. Have read on Mantak Chia, one of the first "occult" books I bought was on Qi Gong thinking of it a text by Dr Yang Jwing Ming, full on stuff, is strange picking up all these books and putting them down confused only to realize their value later, will probably return to it. Took a class a while back, mixed Nei gong, the school was good had an inner circle was/is just too far away for me to attend regularly. Generally surprised I failed to realize or seize on the importance of the practice and am now busy reshuffling my, "career" in practice to fit in at least 2 - 3 lessons weekly... just having problems weeding out the good from the bad, decided on the Alchemy of Bagua as its depth implies that the class is serious and (I'm sorry) not full of old people on a break from the nursing home or generally too shallow to dedicate oneself to. What I've been looking for though is a school with a building dedicated to the art form Tai Chi etc, most in the UK and London seem to be held in school halls and hired church rooms.

Dig your approach Gobiniu, ground the practice with experience then move on, the waving around didn't work well to advertise the practice the first time I tried it which lead me to yoga, Astanga. If you have any online courses or intend to visit england to teach let me know, the microcosmic orbit is something I'd love to pick up on, properly, practice it as a part of magick but am still unsure just how good I am at it .lol. It is helpful in the practice of retainance also, which is something i adhere to.

Which is the best form or school of Qi Gong, one that works well with a person’s development as a magician?

I am a bit late to this but I have recently been going though the same sort of investigations so perhaps I might be able to help by presenting where I have been. I have been looking for a while so this is going to cover a good bit so just gloss over what sound irrelevant to you; it probably is. And I will start it with a joke.

“How many kung fu masters does it take to screw in a light bulb? Just one, but a hundred to tell him they do it different in their school.” Chi gong is energy skill, its just a skill, much like painting. There are thousands of styles of painting but its just painting. That being said if you like abstract art you probably don’t want to study classical figure drawing. Same goes for chigong. There are hundreds of schools, and finding one that fits is a bit hard.

…Surprised to read just how many variations of Qi Gong there are, some involving elements such as sound into things and so I thought I'd ask and get a better opinion on which form would go well with Magick, am looking into the Alchemy of Baguazhang...

Personally, I find Martial Arts chigong lacking in magickal potential. I have studied bagua chigong for several year now, and caution against expecting it to transfer to magick. Same with iron body, and many - not all – of the TaiChi chigong practices. With the exception of Taichi, martial arts chigong deals with jing and the type of chi that is on the “lowest wavelength”, as it is often described. That sort of chi is very useful for knocking stuff over and punching a whole in something but lacks the finesse of higher vibration chi. It also has the particular limitation of being very much linked to the body’s movements. Again chigong is chigong and the same skills you learn in one will prove moveable when you use it in magick, but you will first have to strip away the martial arts from your chigong, which will leave you with a very barebones sort of chigong. Bagua is a Taoist martial art so it will expose you to most of the energetic functions of the body but this is where you have to worry about “inner-door teaching”. You might consider if bagua (or martial arts) is the sort of thing you want to spend five or six year learning and then have to relearn it all again when you apply it to magick. Again this is just from experience, but I have learned many time what I did doing bagua chigong, by using other systems simply because they focus on moving energy while martial arts focus on how energy is used in a fight. For example, every posture in the old-eight palms form is a chigong posture, but none of them help with moving energy my will. They instead use focus and body posture to allow chi to sink and move to the palms. Doing it will help your overall health and aid in a fight but will leave out emitting, absorbing, circulating, cultivating, and transforming chi that I have found useful in magick.

If you’re interested in Alchemy I suggest looking in to Taoist internal alchemy (Bruce Frantzis is popular though his system is too slow for my taste) if you want the eastern way, or Franz Bardon’s energy system for the western view. I was rather surprised to find that his system is held in high regard by chigong practitioners. It is not strictly chigong, but is analogues and teaches the same things in a slightly different manner using different words.

Have been practicing yoga for a while now and its benefits are astounding,

And they will continue to do so. Chigong depending on who you ask is more or less an elaboration on yoga. Taoist chigong for example spends a lot of time working with the chakras. They are after all the set of most of our karma, and the gates/input/output/energetic sense organs of the body, and regulate many of the bodies other energetic functions. The Buddhists have developed a very particular system for working with them that is more meditational if that is you thing.

From experience, I found that the chakras are easy to work with and I keep coming back to them again and again. They also have the distinct advantage of producing Siddhis and the accompanying states of mind that aid in magick. The issue is it takes a very long time to develop the higher states using Hindu yoga. Tantric practices and esoteric Buddhism help speed this along by focusing on dissolving the blockages through focus which will draw active energy to break up the blockage. That under the name “water method” is what Bruce Frantzis along with a few Japanese styles of Buddhism teaches. Japanese styles of Buddhism are considered “fire method” though because the force through blockages.

In about the 90s, books came out by authors such as Mantak Chia, Yang Jwing-Yin, etc. They began to come out with some videos, but as it is today they are a mixed bag of useful and schlock. … Mantak Chia's books tend to be a bit dumbed down or oversimplified, but this is perhaps necessary with beginners. Most of his books cover the microcosmic orbit, a favourite basic exercise. I also like Bruce Kumar Frantzis and his books.

I really like Yang Jwing-Yin, who wrote a book on muscle/tendon changing & marrow /brain washing that is very helpful martial arts and basic practices to tonify chi. I never could read Mantak Chia, though I hear his videos are very useful intro.

There are some other good books that deal with the more magickal side of chigong. Shou-yu Liang and Wen-ching Wu wrote a book called “Qigong Empowerment” that covers medical, Buddhist, Taoist and martial chigong in great detail. Also, I would recommend reading up on Acupuncture and Medical Chigong because they focus on very discreet sets of exercises to get your chi healthy and flowing and do so for every one of the 30-some odd energy ways in the body. Mchawi, If you’re in good shape you might not need to deal with the medical chigong too much. It is useful for finding the Chi paths in the body which has other more occult uses, but I had to deal with medical chigong because my chi was stagnant do to a lot of cultivation that was not properly conducted.

There are exercises specifically to develop sensitivity, but generally speaking as your energy becomes stronger and healthier you become more sensitive to energy. Being able to sense energy is useful in many ways if only in building your confidence that you are actually doing something valid rather than just waving your arms and legs around.

Ha. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That is part of the reason why it is useful to have a teacher. You often have a hard time telling if you’re doing anything besides weaving around your hands. If you can find someone who has been doing chigong for about a year to practice with they will usually be sensitive enough to tell you if you at least on track or not.

By the by Goibniu, could you list some of the exercises? I have been trying to explain to a partner of mine how to tell the difference between chi and the effects of chi moving in the body.

Just about any school of Chi Kung will lead to competency if you apply yourself and learn the principles behind the practices. One particular school is not much better than any other in that regard, although some are more thorough than others. Ultimately to learn the full breadth there is no one tradition to study in that you will find concentrated in one place. In part this is due to the breadth of the practice itself, and in part it is because different teachers find themselves able to teach different skills.
[….]
I have only had a single Chi Kung instructor proper, and she indicated to me that although there are many esoteric methods in many schools of practice, really the 'secret' teachings of Chi Kung boil down to daily practice allowing Chi to do what is in it's nature, and that if you practice keeping your energy unblocked, Chi can flow unimpeded, and will do those things because that is the nature of Chi. That our unhealthy habits are the product of blockages that confuse our instincts.

When there are no blockages, the Chi flows; when Chi flows properly, the body seeks harmony; as the body seeks harmony, our health improves; if we maintain this state, our chi will be more plentiful; plentiful chi leads to all manner of wonders.

Plentiful chi does bring wonders, but it is also useful to ask what that chi is doing. Most of the chigong courses and books available today deal with improving health, and some also deal with longevity. Having plentiful chi that circulates well will do both nicely. That is the easy part, and the chigong can benefit the practitioner in many ways but they will all manifest around the body, such as the case of chigong masters who shock people and can light things on fire, or the iron body master who can take a spear in the throat and break the spear. Coming from a back ground in western magick with the idea that magick should affect the cosmos and provide some gain in line with the users will, I’m not too interested in shocking people with chi. Rather, chigong for the occultist and magician, should provide a entrance to working with higher vibration energies. Chigong for acupuncture and healing (especially distance qi gong massage, though I have only herd of it from 600 year old books) help with this somewhat, but for my own practice I have found that magick as we think of it in the west is more associated with what a have herd called “making strange things happen”.

From my limited use of the Taoist system, Shengong or spirit skill is one of the systems that allow you to work with higher vibration energies directly. In particular shengong takes the principle that chigong functions on – that of the human body being a conduit for universal energy – and teaches uses for working inside of that energy to accomplish some task. These tasks are often very esoteric like harmonizing with change and finding the Dao within and meeting the Dao without, but they can be as practical as constructing magick talismans for all the sorts of things we often do in the west, and changing the weather, seeing the future and altering your “destiny”.

I have only found two authors who talk about this. Fromnm the Taoist side of things a man named Jerry Alan Johnson has produced many, many very good works, but they assume at least intermediate level of chigong and a strong foundation on Taoist energetic anatomy. His books aren’t much help unless you are there already but if you’re interested in it will provide a very versatile system of magick based almost entirely on energy manipulation. The other author is a Frenchman named Francois Lepin who uses a basically intact system of kuji-in and Majutsu that comes out of esoteric Buddhism and Taoist alchemy (the Buddhist and Taoists steal for each other alot) and mixes in a good dose of Japanese style magick. You will find kuji-in talked about in some other books but as far as I have found he in the best author in English. This system is not a complete system so to speak, more of an application of the Siddhis developed as you work with your chakras. You can study it on its own and use Majutsu to supplement your other magick or practice it with chingong and drop the Majutsu part. Either way it will help resolve karma and develop a key part of your energy system. It was described to me, that is the relationship between magick and chigong/yoga as the same as between an engine and a steering wheel. Magick is all about the steering while chigong and other energy development systems are like the engine. You can be a great driver but if your driving a tricycle then you'll not get very far. The more about energy you learn the better car you drive.


Do hope this helps and good luck.

Personally, I find Martial Arts chigong lacking in magickal potential. I have studied bagua chigong for several year now, and caution against expecting it to transfer to magick. Same with iron body, and many - not all – of the TaiChi chigong practices. With the exception of Taichi, martial arts chigong deals with jing and the type of chi that is on the “lowest wavelength”, as it is often described. That sort of chi is very useful for knocking stuff over and punching a whole in something but lacks the finesse of higher vibration chi. It also has the particular limitation of being very much linked to the body’s movements. Again chigong is chigong and the same skills you learn in one will prove moveable when you use it in magick, but you will first have to strip away the martial arts from your chigong, which will leave you with a very barebones sort of chigong.

It's hard for me to say that it is at all universal, but I found that transferring the skill from martial arts to higher energy work to be very easy. But, I've been told that if you teach me how to build a box I can build a house. However, I believe that in most traditional martial arts environments the 'external' is taught first largely because it teaches us to more completely integrate our chi with our bodies. In bagua, for instance, chi is lead through the use of posture, etc. But, what the student is ultimately learning is to lead with intention and not willpower. Leading the chi with one's intention should be as easy as directing chi by assuming a posture. In martial arts, this understanding is carried through from the external arts to the internal arts, and thence into more esoteric meditation practices (though, not in many schools these days will you find a complete program of this nature).

Then, in a way, instead of stripping the martial arts away from your chigong, you are instead integrating the movements of the mind, body, and spirit towards one unified goal. But, I do not believe that they have to be taught in this order, though there is something unique to be gained from any direction.

Coming from a back ground in western magick with the idea that magick should affect the cosmos and provide some gain in line with the users will, I’m not too interested in shocking people with chi. Rather, chigong for the occultist and magician, should provide a entrance to working with higher vibration energies. Chigong for acupuncture and healing (especially distance qi gong massage, though I have only herd of it from 600 year old books) help with this somewhat, but for my own practice I have found that magick as we think of it in the west is more associated with what a have herd called “making strange things happen”.

Yes, and I think that is what westerners have been most interested in finding through Chi Kung. A fascination with material miracles. Not that other cultures don't have similar myths, but I really do blame Jesus for that...

In any case, I have understood the nature of Chi to be one that increases connection, as it were, and communication. In the body proper it can strengthen the integrity of tissues and increase the communication between the parts of the body - but also communication between the body, mind, and spirit, and further from body to body, mind to mind, and spirit to spirit. If the 'space' allows for Chi to cultivate and grow, then this increased communion and connection arises naturally. Not that it cannot be guided in that direction purposefully, of course. But the principle is simply that with a decent foundation, a student can go far with little instruction by following their Chi, as it were. It is in it's nature to reach this state of communion and connection, and if the student learns to be aware of that nature and to follow it even passively, I believe those higher energy elements can be explored from a foundation of even more physical chi kung. However, I think that wherever you get the foundation, as long as you get to the point that you can be aware of your Chi, and develop the patience to follow it, with diligence you will ultimately reach many of the same esoteric practices and uses that are included in the more magical traditions of chi kung.

peace

... could it be said that Qi Gong is, QBL'istically speaking, a distinctly Yetzirahaic practice?

... could it be said that Qi Gong is, QBL'istically speaking, a distinctly Yetzirahaic practice?

As in Yetzirah, the creative principle? Don't think so. Chi gong is the equivalent of working-out for your energy body. You don't make anything, nothing is created, you can't even rightly say that you HAVE anything because the better you get at chi gong the more your energy body functions like a very elaborate systems of conduits through which chi passes. It may well say for a while, and at any given time you may have a lot of it, but it is just passing through.

Some types of chi gong deal with rerouting some of the conduits, and most others deal with making them flow better. None of that is really your effort though. The chi is smarter than you are. You can help chi along by clearing the way, but more often than not "you" are what is in the chi's way. Get out of its way and it will make life better. Point it somewhere and it will find the best way to get there. Point the right kind of chi to the right spot and magick happens.

At its highest, most elaborate level I have heard that chi gong is assuming your place in the united whole of the universe, all the fun thing that you can do with chi is an extension of assuming a place in that wholeness. You never really left the wholeness but we often act like we did, which tends to complicate matters.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: Apr 14 2011, 06:03 PM

I don't use any one system or school of Qigong. I do avoid using Qi Packing, but that is my only real rule. There is a lot of overlap between medical, spiritual and martial schools of Qigong. I do a lot of standing stake practice (Zhan Zhuang Gong). Generally this is combined with the macrocosmic orbit or sending the Qi through the right and left channels. I do a thorough clearing exercise. I try to vary it and make it enjoyable because you need to prevent it from becoming a chore when you've been doing it for 20 or 30 years. Motivation is a very important aspect of any sort of regular practice. This is why I practice kungfu with my friends three times a week. They include a more martial arts based type of Qigong. But doing it with friends helps keep me doing it. That is also why I teach. It forces me to get out and do it with those students and forces me to think about Qigong, how to teach it best and how to maintain what I have if not progress further. It is something that I hope to become better at even when I'm an old geezer. I see it as a lifelong study.

I find the books of B.K. Frantzis useful in how to explain it as well as in my private practice. Sometimes he says something that I knew at some level, but hadn't had a clear formation of the concept. Someone mentioned that his methods were too slow for him. I know what he means, but it is slow and steady and healthy. Some of the supposed quicker methods based on forced techniques contain risks. When you are doing Qigong for decades you have to try to avoid or minimize risks. I know that I've had to undo some of the damage done from when I was younger.

I don't know how useful Qigong might be for Ceremonial Magic, but in my British Traditional Wicca style the coven finds me useful. I can raise about three times as much energy for a ritual just be standing there and can direct energy more surely than most. Of course there is a lot more to Wiccan practices than that, but I try to learn more about the other aspects as well.

It is a skill like learning how to build a box as Vagrant mentioned. It is a set of exercises designed to give your energy body a workout similar to going to a gym and working out as fatherjhon says. But it can also be a spiritual path that allows you to contact the divine. A lot more is going on when you do Qigong than is apparent at the surface and at the beginning. Most people just dip their toe in the water, but some of us learn how to swim.

Personally, I find Martial Arts chigong lacking in magickal potential.

There is a lot of overlap between medical, spiritual and martial schools of Qigong.

Can you tell me more about the distinction between these types of Qigong? That is, are schools traditionally grouped under one of those three headings or something like that?

I don't know how useful Qigong might be for Ceremonial Magic, but in my British Traditional Wicca style the coven finds me useful. I can raise about three times as much energy for a ritual just be standing there and can direct energy more surely than most. Of course there is a lot more to Wiccan practices than that, but I try to learn more about the other aspects as well.

Well, there you have it .lol. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

From a more holistic point of view its obvious that improving on the circulation of energy/Qi in the body aids well in the balancing and manipulation of energies invoked during ritual as a C.Magican... working on a seasonal basis and with the elements in Qi Gong speaks for itself, its this internal approach that the, "external" practice of C.M is lacking, and perhaps why so many, ummm, "magicans" end up bickering on yahoo forums over whos been kicked out which way and why. Yoga is brilliant but again it doesn't help in the manipulation of energetic forces and lacks the elemental side to things... not that it doesn't have its benefits, a certain focus physical health etc.

Chi gong is the equivalent of working-out for your energy body.

Yetzirahic in that way as it deals with the ruach... I would suppose that a strong Qi Gong practitioner has a strong energetic foundation and would do well on the astral. Geometrically the Tree of life can be drawn in such a way to show that Yetzirah encompasses six seprioth, Hod, Yesod, Netzach, Tiphareth, Geburah and Chesed which is interesting (am in 2=9 at the moment) .lol.

... Yoga doesn't deal with the elements .lol. Of course it does, just not in the same way is what I meant... although I've experienced Yogis throwing their chakra energy around quite well... took up Kundalini for a while, wasn't the right class perhaps, one of the women didn't take to me well, me being the only guy in the room and being quite young at that, she started with the snide comments etc... the Yogini teaching us (R.I.P) didn't say anything but started the class in her usual lotus position on top of her sheep skin rug to start the class telling us what to do, now, throughout the isession there was a distinct pounding of energy emanating from her and hitting the cranky old woman beside me, was like being in a room with someone banging the wall next door .lol. all from this Yogi sitting "at peace" in lotus. Was impressive. In another account I had to attempt to get a refund from a Yogi as he had changed his class times and hadn't informed me, bit of a bad character, liked his class being full of women 'helping' them when necessary even though he was married... his trick? Was like he could turn on his heart chakra and bring about its vibration in his aura then effecting yours, interesting stuff. Personally practice Astanga so theres no initial focus on the chakras, just the breathing and spine work, which isn't helpful as its back to front, attempting to force Kundalini energy upward without having balanced ones chakras first, is odd but its a fun system.... still, when it comes to shifting and being aware of ones subtle body you cant beat Qi Gong working in 2=9 has been an experience in that to say the least.

Yetzirahic in that way as it deals with the ruach... I would suppose that a strong Qi Gong practitioner has a strong energetic foundation and would do well on the astral. Geometrically the Tree of life can be drawn in such a way to show that Yetzirah encompasses six seprioth, Hod, Yesod, Netzach, Tiphareth, Geburah and Chesed which is interesting (am in 2=9 at the moment) .lol.

Blah... I new I should have let someone who has work with CM more recently than 2002 answer that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I take your word for it because that went over my head.

Can you tell me more about the distinction between these types of Qigong? That is, are schools traditionally grouped under one of those three headings or something like that?

As others have said, there is not much difference between them and if you start with one you can move to the others. That is why Vagrant says that martial chi gong is applicable to magick; chi gong is a set of skills that helps you work with chi in whatever form with which you happen to work. All that is required is a knowledge and familiarity with a type of chi and you can apply the skills towards whatever goal you choose. Becoming familiar with the types of chi is some what haphazard if you are not introduced to it by someone who know how it isolate that form of chi. Chi is sometimes usefully categorized by vibration and by where it is, where its going and what it is doing. I have only studied Bagua chi gong so I will leave it to others to explain other martial forms. Bagua chi gong deals with lower vibrational energy and sending it though "jing paths" (what I understand as deep energetic pathways inside the muscles and bones) that is the sort of thing you use for fighting. The health aspects of bagua chi gong come from lower daintien work so that chi gathers there and eventually starts the grand circulation. Other forms of health chigong from bagua chi gong are better described as "Dao Yin" which is a therapeutic form of energy work where by the body's deficiencies (mostly inability to do the physical movements of the system) are corrected by harmonizing movement, thought, and breathing.

Health chi gong focuses on particular locations in the body where chi gathers to do some particular task such as the liver, lungs and what have you. Its goal is to promote a healthy physical body by correcting chi flow deficiency and excesses.

Spiritual chi gong is mostly academic for me. Aside from becoming more aware of how I connect with the universe, the only part I have directly experienced, you are supposed to be able to "birth a spiritual embryo". This is roughly equivalent to becoming enlightened, dieing, then havering your "Buddha soul" enter nirvana. That is the very start of the very end of spiritual chi gong. What I have experienced is the beginning of the beginning I neither know or can imagine the things in between.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: Apr 15 2011, 06:00 PM

Hardly V.Dreamer or M1thras .lol. More practical than theoretical, by chance I've bumped into a text on the QBL that resonates well where others can be a bit off and difficult to digest, check out; John Michel Greer, well balanced author, not too light and not too heavy. Going to be my reference from now on.

Qigong is mostly involves moving energy/qi. Initially you use physical exercises that tend to cause the qi to move and circulate through your body without your conscious awareness. Then the teacher will tell you about how to move qi consciously. My teacher used to say "energy follows intent," which is quite correct and accurate, but tends to confuse people who have never done anything remotely lie this before. Generally I tell them to put their awareness into their right hand. Feel your hand. Put your awareness into your hand. I repeat this like a mantra for a couple of minutes until their focus is in their right hand. If we do this during several classes they generally will notice that their right hand feels swollen with energy. They feel heat, tingling, or something else. An awareness of what qi feels like in your body helps to provide valuable feedback to the practitioner. Having a good awareness of your body in general is another important aspect. Being able to visualize or feel your body is an important part of being able to lead your qi from one part of your body to another.

Another slightly different method of directing qi is as one friend of mine says, "pretend until it becomes real." Visualization (which is often kinaesthetic rather than visual) is an act of imagination. You imagine your mind/awareness leading qi from one part of your body into another part. Initially it is imaginary or pretend, but with practice you begin to feel your qi flowing. This feedback demonstrates that it is reality, not imagination. Imagination is a useful and adaptable tool for beginners. We use our imagination in many parts of our lives if you think about it. We have good mental command or control of our imagination.

Those on this thread have compared and contrasted Qigong with Yoga. One major contrast between Qigong and the New Age energy work workshops is that in Qigong most of the work is with the meridians (jingluo), while in workshops such as Reiki etc, they work almost exclusively with the chakras. I think that this is for several reasons. Firstly, you can learn to feel and open or close your chakras quite quickly. It fits in with the shortness of the workshop courses. Qigong masters and practitioners are certainly aware of the existence of chakras, but consider them to be less important than the proper flow of energy through the meridians/jingluo. My estimation is that there isn't much that much than can go seriously wrong with the chakras, and that they can't be improved and promoted much beyond normal functioning. In contrast, most serious (health, spirituality) issues are caused or reflected in meridian blockages. The other part of the equation is that with regular qigong practice can open up energy flow to a level that will likely allow the development of not just good health but also sensitivity to energy that manifests itself as spiritual abilities siddhis, or paranormal abilities, whatever you want to call them.