The Succubus, defending her honor Options

reading though many of the discussions on this board regarding sex with spirits i need to say that im unimpressed with a lot of the light she is often being portrayed in. the topic and the posters are scattered all over the forum and so didnt know where to insert what i wanted to say. so i opened a new thread and opened it in the chaos magick forum since it mentioned orgasm in the category.

SHE {or her incubus counterpart} arent mere phsycological sidetracks or some little abstraction in the atmosphere born of pure rampant lust. i dont know how many of you are reciting things youve read or heard or if your talking from actual experiences but the entities here are much larger than they are being given credit for. SHE is litterally a being directly in consort with the very womb of our life continuum. yes, at first contact SHE will appear in low atmospheric form, often {at least for me} resembling a conglomerate of past or even present love attractions in our physical world. engage with the spirit for a fair duration and those initial layers wil be stripped and contact with a denser aura will unveil. I tell you with all certainty that SHE PULSATES with LIFE. also i feel it nessessary to mention that in the right circumstances true affection can arise and be exchanged, in other words love is part of the picture.

if initially there is audio projection through the entity in the form of words coming mainly from your side, and you know that they are mostly your own thoughts, than yes that should be considered in the realm of phsycological sidetrack, and if it remains there i can understand why some might regaurd the entity as a mere flight of fancy. these type of projections can be useful at the onset of intercourse, but they should be considered symbolic shadows of a deeper communication that is taking place. one should learn how to turn off the standard dialogue until those lower astral layers are stripped away and a fulller view{"FEEL"} of the spirits aura is revealed and then learn to commune through a more direct transmission of a non linear language that can appear by way of something in the style of remote viewing. as well overtime a certain knowingness of what is being exchanged can take place. is she feeding on you? yes! but you are also feeding on her in a way that {if your doing it right} shouldnt be considered any less valid than the way human lovers feed off eachother.

ill just say it, they're BIGGER than you, THEY have the upper hand, much more so than youre pyche. are they linked to your psyche? yes. but so is "everything" else in your personal experience. try engaging the spirit in sex patiently and long enough to be brought to climax by her [speaking to the males here} see what its like to fully witness the bizaree sensation of the spiral nature of your semenic flow shooting through her {if you got the balls}, then tell me you erected its identity by way of your own psyche, or that the entity is nearly lifeless. maybe im mistaken in my technical Titles of what we are talking about, maybe ive engaged with an entity that isnt the classical definition of a succubus and those of you who have reffered to her in a lowly context are having experiences with succubus and me something else, i dont know.

those of you wanting to know about giving it an actual physical form, there are ways, though i have yet to do it. from what of learned one can use the fluids generated during the spiritual intercourse over a ritualistic period of time and couple its rising spirtit with various essnses and reflective objects. this as far as i know can take years. those of you who are familiar with the legends of King Math will understand the potential risks involved. her true existence is for alll intent and purpose..... "elsewhere". such engagements should be looked at in the context of legendary courtships between the mortal world and the Fae world rather than a psycotic flirt with a lifeless lust monster. there was a time in the days of old when those two worlds werent so far apart as they are today [though with the onset of so many becoming involved with magic, that gap is being bridged} there are probably some on this board who understand what i mean here concerning these relationships and if youre reading this please pardon me for talking out of turn. so in closing i will say that those who are seriously engaged in or thinking about engaging in relations with a spirit, do see part of what you are doing as a task in bridging that gap between the worlds.

side note: yes i know orgasms are a way of empowering sigils, if the moderaters feel this post is in the wrong place please feel free to place it in a more appropriate category.

in the clear light

Igisi

Well I think it's a nice post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
but then I'm usually a fan of contrarian thinking. I think of it like medicine for the world's addiction to dogma.

In my experiences with entities in a mostly informal capacity, I have found that "diversity is the rule". And that tends to fly in the face of simplified hierarchial schemes, categorization, labels, etc. So I think that 10 people can interact with what they may choose to call a sukkubus, but end up actually interacting with 10 very different entities. Further, 10 different people can interact with the very same entity, and come away from that with 10 very different impressions. I am reminded of the parable of the blind men and the elephant (which I'll elaborate on if someone's interested).

So, I would expect that no two people will end up with exactly the same impression about any spiritual being. This is true even for deities. Some people think YHVH is the creator of the universe, myself, I think he's a large manmade egregoric being, and kind of a dick. and that's a case of talking about the same being, from different paradigms, add to that a diversity among numerous entities which someone might interpret as being a sukkubus... well, i'm frankly surprised there isn't *more* difference of opinion about them than there is. Actually the fact that there isn't tons and tons of disagreement suggests to me that most people are approaching them with a preconceived notion, probably derived from a common dogmatic source.

Anyway, I know the sort of being you are talking about. Actually if you took your sukkubus and made her 'infinitely big' you'd end up with something kinda similar to my personal deity (with whom I do have 'intimate' relations). I don't usually think of most entities as being 'bigger' than me though. I used to, and mostly because it used to be true hehe. But I've been pretty zealous about pursuing 'growth' for a very long time, and not without some progress. Plus, I ideologically dislike "looking up to" other beings.

And then there are 'barely sentient' parasites, bits of astral wildlife looking for an energy snack. Honestly I have never seen one of that sort of being seeking sexual energy in a complex fashion. You don't see entities which draw 'sexual' energy from people until you start looking at a level of entity development which is just below the average human and ranging on up to 'much greater than' the typical human. So in that regard, yes... I do very much agree with showing a bit of respect for the sukkubus, they're not in my experience an entry level parasite, but a fully sentient being.


You really like her don't you?
you sly dog you *thumbs-up* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

This post has been edited by Kath: Nov 21 2009, 01:53 AM

Uuummmm... wow. That was pretty impressive. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Well, I haven't been on SMF for a very long time, but most of the 'sex spirit' things I've read here have been about Servitors.

Obviously, Servitors(no matter what they're used for) are not beyond the magician in any way, shape, or form. Also obviously, this sort of entity is not what you're talking about at all.

I just wanted to point out that some of the demeaning rhetoric that seems to have offended you is probably directed at Servitors created to fulfill sexual desires, and not a separate, individual entity.

I'll go crawl in my hole, now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lightning.gif)

there are a lot of folks who think that lillith is sometimes confused with the ufo abduction experience or vice-versa

This post has been edited by esoterica: Nov 21 2009, 09:40 AM

I read somewhere that incubi/succubi were originally conceived by wayward spouses in ancient times as a means of having to avoid admitting to an extra-marital affair ("I'm faithful! I was raped by a incubus!")

Personally, I am no fan of the succubus (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Around 16 years ago, my wife and I lived on a mountain in a trailer. As far as trailers go it was new and we were just starting out so we were doing well at the time, (haha) but I digress. Now my wife swears that one night, she was physically held down and literally got to know an invisible male being in the biblical sense. To this day, she swears that it (what I now understand to have been an incubus) raised her physically off the bed and threw her back down again among other things. She claims that it was rough and forceful, but at the same time, she strangely enjoyed the encounter. It was so realistic according to her account, that she could hear and feel its breath. At the time, I thought she had been the victim of sleep paralysis as esoterica alluded to or, well, I thought she was insane. Now, I'm not so sure anymore.

The reason I mention this is, well, I'm curious. Could this type of contact with a malevolent entity cause changes in the victim, such as turning the victim into its opposite counterpart on the physical plane? You can draw your own conclusions about why I ask, and I hesitate to ask it...but has anyone heard of such a thing?

This post has been edited by lightseeker: Dec 3 2009, 08:16 PM

wow, i left this forum after i wrote this because i thought i was going to get a warning, but now come to find i didnt. i appreciate the responses. yes i do like her and have immense respect for her. i love the thickness of her aura and its fairly easy to tell she isnt evil. however i dont engage with her anymore because i simply dont get horny the way i used to and its difficult to engage as long as shed like to because i get impatient about climax. i do see us as symbolically wed though and she touches me every so often either to remind me that shes there or to see if im in the mood. at those timee i usually just talk to her about magic stuff and apologize for not wishing to engage with her. but nonetheless she is special to me.

Actually, your experience is not all that uncommon and I am surprised that more people haven't didn't leave comments in all these years. I myself recenlty checked back into the site after a hiatus.

For one, are you a familiar with the writing of Ida Craddock? She was a Crowley-era occultist/mystic who wrote about her experiences and became a sex therapist and marriage counselor through it long before anyone understood those terms. She unfortunately was driven to commit to suicide because a rabid Christian pastor was brutally harassing her, which included getting her put in jail and freezing her assets or something like that. But I digress.

I know many people who feel they experience an astral lover or partner. I have done so on and off in my life and it began during very early childhood. These may be more likely categorized as "muses," "fairies" (in a more traditional rather than fluffy Walt Disney sense), or--the Eastern equivalents "apsaras" and "dakini." (or their male equivalents) And there are in fact yogic practices for evoking and have sacred sex or sex magick with these entities. Do they come from the mind, do they come from the astral? That, I suppose, is something for a person to decide for themselves.

Incubi and succubi are characterized as being more vampiric and diabolical and were born in the imagination of men and women through fears about wet dreams, erotic dreams, and sleep paralysis. These creatures also were said to be responsible for things like impotency and pregnancy loss and crib death. This why it is kind of backward and nutty--if not just ignorant--for women to celebrate Lilith as a role model of female independence and sexualilty or magic. Lilith started out as a plural name for a type of feminine energy in Babylon or Chaldea. And the image of Lilith that gets recycled is probably not Lilith but an image of Ianana anyway. So, we have are ideas all convoluted and fixed up into a new paradigm based on ignorance and misinformation.

Still succubi and incubi are now important in Chaote sex magick. I refer you to a ritual within Zos Kia Kultus, related by Kenneth Grant, on working with a succubus http://hermetic.com/spare/sorceries.html

This post has been edited by SororZSD23: Mar 22 2012, 06:36 PM

I know many people who feel they experience an astral lover or partner. I have done so on and off in my life and it began during very early childhood. These may be more likely categorized as "muses," "fairies"... or--the Eastern equivalents "apsaras" and "dakini." (or their male equivalents) And there are in fact yogic practices for evoking and have sacred sex or sex magick with these entities. Do they come from the mind, do they come from the astral?

I would not call it sex. Dakini is the female (i.e. wisdom) aspect of enlightenment. As a meditation deity one has congress with her/them, but it is more along the lines of absorbing them rather than sex. The yogic practices come from Tantra and function like the meditation deity form of practice. In Tantria, there are practices where Mahavidya are literally raped for there knowledge, but the more present practices all view the Dakini as the embodiment of wisdom which is fused with you. The goal is to become more Dakini then human.

Astral lovers are rather dangerous because they survive on stolen energy and spirit. Focusing your attention on them is how they acquire your spirit, and climax is how they acquire your energy. Stories from China tell about fox spirits who would drain a man to death. It does not sound like you have this issue, Igisi, but I am rather cautious of anything that needs to eat me to live.

This post has been edited by fatherjhon: Mar 23 2012, 07:29 PM

yes, thats why i mentioned at the end of my post that maybe my experience wasnt with a succubus but something else while ever one elses may be different. perhaps i use terminology to loosely some time. my first understanding of her when i found a name for what i was doing was that she was a nymph, and though the title succubus has come to light since then i guess i really just still see her as a nymph, {though rather larger than what one would expect for a nymph}.

... suppose for the most part its often a case of a compliment... its quite possible if you're in any way clairvoyant and most of us are while easily effected during sleep, to become aware of people you know of who may harbor a liking for you, as in that young lady at the shop each morning before work whos always smiling pouring love into your morning tea/coffee going home at night and thinking of you so intensely as to have an effect on you while you sleep, that in turn triggering a response in your dreams. Quite common I'd say.

I would not call it sex. Dakini is the female (i.e. wisdom) aspect of enlightenment. As a meditation deity one has congress with her/them, but it is more along the lines of absorbing them rather than sex.

in tantra, depending on the particular branch, communing with the divine can take on several different forms. but one of them certainly is erotically intimate in nature. literally sexual intimacy as an approach to union. it is not the only approach though. and I am speaking from a tantrika's background specifically, not any other vedic inclination.

The goal is to become more Dakini then human.

rarely see that said so bluntly. quite true though.

Astral lovers are rather dangerous because they survive on stolen energy and spirit. Focusing your attention on them is how they acquire your spirit, and climax is how they acquire your energy. Stories from China tell about fox spirits who would drain a man to death. It does not sound like you have this issue, Igisi, but I am rather cautious of anything that needs to eat me to live.

that makes some assumptions.
first, that an astral lover is necessarily parasitic. second that they are necessarily dangerous. third that freely shed energy is 'stolen' if collected (granted a feeding could be more deeply invasive than just 'collecting', but not necessarily). and indirectly a fourth assumption that being fed on is necessarily harmful (that it can't instead improve energy circulation, and that energy is a limited resource). and i think a further assumption that one can't control such interactions (ergo they're threatening).

I would submit that sex with entities is no different than any other interaction with entities. Diversity is the rule, and prudence is defined on a case-by-case basis. I view entities as individuals, rather than archetypes.

I do not frequently have an astral romp with beings other than my deity (a spiritual erotic encounter which is quite the opposite of parasitic). But when I have played the astral field as it were, it has never been unpleasant or harmful. If the being is parasitic (and granted, many are), then it is good etiquette to let the entity leave with a net gain of energy.

Personally I have found that trying to regard energy as something to horde, like money, is counter productive, and that anything which increases the flow of energy through oneself is generally a benefit, even if momentarily taxing. I try to be a high voltage wire, rather than a fully charged battery. As for results, in my approach, over time, I have come to regard energy as an essentially limitless resource. Perhaps put another way, I would argue that regarding energy as something to hang onto & keep, IS a form of blockage (albeit a largely psychological one). I realize my view flies in the face of the more 'capitalistic' mentality regarding personal energy in neo-occultism. In my model, spending energy increases your capacity for channeling it, much like exercise, though taxing in the short term, increases your capacities physically.

which isn't to say you can't meet a mean-tempered entity which just seeks to do harm. but I'd never just assume that of an entity. and I am ever leery of any attitude that puts caution above curiosity. Even if an entity is dead set on malefic intent, i don't think there is any type of entity that I *dislike* interacting with, some just call for a different tact.

This post has been edited by Kath: Jun 28 2012, 06:12 AM

hello
I have a lot courios this topic.
I have a different conception of what may occur outside of the human being.
Assuming that absolutely do not believe in spiritual entities that interact in different ways with the man (but that all that occurs outside of the human being, a projection is active, a small energy part of ourselves), consequently i believe that everything we perceive outside of us, are the nost unconscious needs, in the form of energy.
In this case, those with certain sexual experiences with the so-called spirits, unconsciously his own unconscious, expressed, making it real, a hidden desire to reason, then not aware of this need.
The power of man has no limits, but the man is not aware of, and feel the need to categorize certain events, with their cultural meter, then giving incredible powers to entities that should fluctuate around us.
Also I have gone from seeing spirits, demons, angels, and feel their presence, I have also been harassed, I've never tried sex, but the approach is the same.
Then, growing in the knowledge of what dwells within myself, and putting in comparison with people of a certain thickness evolutionary significance, and going back in the experiences had, I realized that all these various steps (supernatural experiences) were needed to go further.
This is my experience, then everyone thinks the way he wants.


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This is my experience, then everyone thinks the way he wants.

This post has been edited by arianna: Jan 23 2013, 02:04 PM