First Summoning Options

Two nights ago, I summoned my first entity. I didn't use a circle, or any other kind of protection. I just got into a trance, and I asked the nearest friendly entity to come forth. I felt him here, and I asked him his name. I'm not sure if it was my imagination, but
he told me his name was Apophis in a monster-ish kind of voice. I don't think it was my imagination... because if it was, I would've probably picked a name I could relate to... I've never heard of Apophis. Anyway, I asked him to leave, and I thought he did, until I got in bed to go to sleep, and I felt him behind me. He was touching my back or something. I banished him with the Solar Cross, and it worked. The end...

Greetings Shonenman!
I was going to launch into a rant after reading your post. Instead I would like to ask a few questions and leave you a url to visit. Hopefully this will not be as alienating as it could be.
Why did you think that it was a smart idea to not have proper protections when you attempted your first evocation?
Do you find yourself drawn to any particular theology?
If so, does it coincide or match the protective ritual that you used?

http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/apep.htm
http://touregypt.net/featurestories/apep.htm

Please take time to read through these blurbs and think about your experience.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/butcher.gif)

Whoa! I did not realize that's who I summoned. I used a direct magic method, from TLoK. I know in solomonic evocations you use circles and other protection and command the entity, but rather I just asked the nearest friendly entity to come and speak with me. He was in no way aggresive or mean. He had a deep, almost growling voice, but he didn't try to harm me. I showed him respect... I thanked him, and instead of forcing him to do something, I asked him. I don't see too much wrong with what I did. When I said he was still there and touched my back, it wasn't aggressive, or with a harmful intent. I just felt him still here, so I banished him. I wasn't realy afraid, and I sensed no hostility.

I think the fact that you asked him to leave and he didn't is why you should use the circle.

Asking any old entity to drop by is similar to using a ouija board, you don't know what you are getting.

Heck, I have used a circle and had it attacked and I really don't like to think about what the outcome might have been had I not used it. I have also left my circle and gone to bed without closing it - that was not clever and several things happened to me, none of which I understood at the time but I would rather not experience them again.

I have also done a shoddy circle in complacency and had things fly in...

Please think carefully since it will be hard to casually call a friend in the middle of an attack (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fie.gif)

I'm not sure whether it was Apophis, or a random entity trying be him. Since he represents evil and destruction, and this entity was not hostile toward me at all, I'm not sure about it. Next time I will use a circle, but it wont be for a while. I don't think I'm ready yet.

This post has been edited by shonenman: Aug 26 2005, 10:13 AM

I'm not sure whether it was Apophis, or a random entity trying be him. Since he represents evil and destruction, and this entity was not hostile toward me at all, I'm not sure about it. Next time I will use a circle, but it wont be for a while. I don't think I'm ready yet.

Priests of the old aeons used no circle it is a personal thing and a test of true power I had no circle with my Pazuzu encounter its the level of your power and your blood line that protects you.

Greetings Alric Thomas!
I don't agree with your assessment. 'Priests of old aeons' intrigue me. What time frame/ethnos are these Priests? (BTW, Priests and Magicians can be looked at separately) You fail to mention that though a circle wasn't used, some other device was used. The protective device in Sumeria was square. I cannot say about the ancient magical practices other than what I've read and even then the sources can be suspect. To practice evocation without protection is foolhardy. Personal power does play a role. The use of tools in magic are primarily used for focus of intent and/or symbols representing facets of the magician or of the working.
Perhaps you'd care to discuss the aftermath of a magical working when/if the mage fails his/her 'true test of power'? Would you jump into a shark tank without protection? Until you are on firm ground it is best to use some time honored methods...which, BTW, are themselves thousand(s) of years old. We understand that a circle needn't be 7-9' in diameter scribed with Hebrew characters. It can be rather small and drawn into the Astral light...without an athame or black handled knife or boline, etc.
I am very interested to hear your explanation of 'bloodline' in regards to all this. I'm always interested in learning new things.
Pazuzu huh? Are you reading the Simon Necronomicon? or Kenneth Grants books (OTO)? From my understanding Pazuzu is a Pestilence demon and not particularily nice. I am very interested in anything Sumerian/Babylonian.

Greetings Alric Thomas!
I don't agree with your assessment. 'Priests of old aeons' intrigue me. What time frame/ethnos are these Priests? (BTW, Priests and Magicians can be looked at separately) You fail to mention that though a circle wasn't used, some other device was used. The protective device in Sumeria was square. I cannot say about the ancient magical practices other than what I've read and even then the sources can be suspect. To practice evocation without protection is foolhardy. Personal power does play a role. The use of tools in magic are primarily used for focus of intent and/or symbols representing facets of the magician or of the working.
Perhaps you'd care to discuss the aftermath of a magical working when/if the mage fails his/her 'true test of power'? Would you jump into a shark tank without protection? Until you are on firm ground it is best to use some time honored methods...which, BTW, are themselves thousand(s) of years old. We understand that a circle needn't be 7-9' in diameter scribed with Hebrew characters. It can be rather small and drawn into the Astral light...without an athame or black handled knife or boline, etc.
I am very interested to hear your explanation of 'bloodline' in regards to all this. I'm always interested in learning new things.
Pazuzu huh? Are you reading the Simon Necronomicon? or Kenneth Grants books (OTO)? From my understanding Pazuzu is a Pestilence demon and not particularily nice. I am very interested in anything Sumerian/Babylonian.

Well all I can say on bloodline is when a family has made a deal with a group of spirits or gods or forces and are protected from harm. For most you are right a circle is a good idea. Yes your right Pazuzu is a nasty but even he can't lay a hand on you if your aligned with a strong power. Kenneth Grant is also very powerful and the forces he deals with can rip one up. Can't really say anymore at present.
Alric

Thank you Alric!
It was interesting to hear the slant on 'bloodlines' and their involvement with occult influences. I learn something new (to me) every day! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The protective device in Sumeria was square. ... I am very interested in anything Sumerian/Babylonian....

Dear Bym:
I'm very interested in any info you might have on sumerian magic, and I have never hear of the 'square'

Could you provide more info on that? (links, references?)

Thanks,

Traveller

Greetings Traveller!
Well...I've read it in passing any number of times from Sumeria to Far Eastern Tibetan demonic-dieties references...
Here is one from the Sumerian:
http://www.stavacademy.co.uk/mimir/greatstag.htm
It doesn't have a diagram but rather mentions the Sumerian idea of the shape of the cosmos. In western tradition the circle is used to describe infinity. The Sumerians deemed that the square represented an aspect of the god Ea. It was also shown in the form of an equal armed cross (adopted by the Templars?). Another 'source' would be some of the yantra/mandalic diagrams which are used in the Simon Necronomicon.
http://iacmusic.com/symbolspage.html
Here is a site depicting many types of symbols and their various meanings.
I'm alittle flustered that I'm unable to point you in the direction of more comprehensive sourcing. It will show up when I least expect it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif)

actually bym, the practice of summoning spirits or forces without circles (or such) isn't all that unheard of.

Certainly the practice is alive in afro-carribean cultures . . . where that kind of seperation would be anathemic, if not simply offensive.
I'm too understand that in Nordic seidr-work, its intended that the mage would have a very open and visceral connection with the 'occupying' force or deity
Thats not to say that there aren't protective measures taken . . . or at least an assumed agreement that the spirit wouldn't damage/kill the practitioner.

.... although, In many shamanic traditions its the danger (and spiritual 'death') that make that kind of working SO successul.

Granted, these are all forms of the practice of possesion (or at least intended obsession) . . . and usually with a fair amount of training under the guidance of an experienced shaman . . . if not even under some degree of protection by the shaman.

I'm certainly not suggestion Shonenman take that kind of practice without understanding the seriousness of the potential consequences . . . . but it is a practice with some historic (and contemporary) validity.

This post has been edited by palindroem: Oct 5 2006, 08:32 AM

Your right of course that there is no circle in afro-carribean cultures and shamanism but there are still levels of protection from their good spirits and gods and what have you. Also those are religious ceremonies and not something akin to what most people on this board practices.

Although that being said this thread is about shonenman's experence and methods. Which I really do hate to critize others on their methods but I have to say what he attempted was very stupid. Shonenman mentions no prep work, no past work, no planning, and zero protection. There are methods and reasons for no circle but I wouldn't say this was one of them. I have seen the croc hunter on TV handle crocs with his bare hands with no protection equipment but that doesn't mean I am qualified to.

I am not trying to sound harsh but having no clear plan for "who" you intend to speak to in the first place and just asking for anyone who is close is not a good idea.

Thanks Nero!
This thread was started some year and 3 months ago. I do agree that there are many (many) different forms of evocation, etc. out there. Some involve use of a circle, some do not. (A side note here: It is fairly interesting to note that by finding out if a person uses protective devices or a circle can clue the questioner as to what tradition the questioned has come from...) I responded to Shonenman initial post with the concern that he may not be thinking of some rather salient points concerning the practice of evocation. I've learned that there are always going to be those that differ with your opinion and are able to give some well researched arguments to their cause. One can't please everyone! I do not use a circle all the time...it depends on the territory to be covered. I've only used it once in a shamanic setting as the whole Solomonic method doesn't work well with some of the South American shamanic practices.
Also, we're ressurecting some older stuff here and alot has been processed in the interim. I'd like to think that I'm open to new ideas and methodology. Thanks for the reminder though! I've met some very interesting people over the time I've been here. Some would think nothing of invoking the spirit of Pazuzu whilst I either wouldn't or would be sure to have it an evocation with my blast shields up! Newage has lulled some out there into a false sense of security when it comes down to possession and intrusive spirit work. Pazuzu is not known for his Flower parades!
Ah well, to each their own. Take what you will and leave the rest. I wish you well on your journey! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)
PS An addendum to my response to Traveller:
The diagrams used in the Simon Necronomicon are of (to me) unconfirmed sources. Simon didn't give me the manuscripts beforehand. It should be of interest to note that the Planetary Gates roughly resemble the ziggurat step pyramids all fashionably in rage at the time...The use of the 4 quarters of the world is still present in todays lodge rituals whether they are protective or not! Thanks!

Thanks Nero!
This thread was started some year and 3 months ago. I do agree that there are many (many) different forms of evocation, etc. out there. Some involve use of a circle, some do not. (A side note here: It is fairly interesting to note that by finding out if a person uses protective devices or a circle can clue the questioner as to what tradition the questioned has come from...) I responded to Shonenman initial post with the concern that he may not be thinking of some rather salient points concerning the practice of evocation. I've learned that there are always going to be those that differ with your opinion and are able to give some well researched arguments to their cause. One can't please everyone! I do not use a circle all the time...it depends on the territory to be covered. I've only used it once in a shamanic setting as the whole Solomonic method doesn't work well with some of the South American shamanic practices.
Also, we're ressurecting some older stuff here and alot has been processed in the interim. I'd like to think that I'm open to new ideas and methodology. Thanks for the reminder though! I've met some very interesting people over the time I've been here. Some would think nothing of invoking the spirit of Pazuzu whilst I either wouldn't or would be sure to have it an evocation with my blast shields up! Newage has lulled some out there into a false sense of security when it comes down to possession and intrusive spirit work. Pazuzu is not known for his Flower parades!
Ah well, to each their own. Take what you will and leave the rest. I wish you well on your journey! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)
PS An addendum to my response to Traveller:
The diagrams used in the Simon Necronomicon are of (to me) unconfirmed sources. Simon didn't give me the manuscripts beforehand. It should be of interest to note that the Planetary Gates roughly resemble the ziggurat step pyramids all fashionably in rage at the time...The use of the 4 quarters of the world is still present in todays lodge rituals whether they are protective or not! Thanks!

simons necs walking of the gates is mostly based on From the Omens of Babylon: Astrology and Ancient Mesopotamia book.

Your right of course that there is no circle in afro-carribean cultures and shamanism but there are still levels of protection from their good spirits and gods and what have you. Also those are religious ceremonies and not something akin to what most people on this board practices.

Unless you're a Bokor trained in the arts of Voodoo Sorcery.

Although that being said this thread is about shonenman's experence and methods. Which I really do hate to critize others on their methods but I have to say what he attempted was very stupid. Shonenman mentions no prep work, no past work, no planning, and zero protection. There are methods and reasons for no circle but I wouldn't say this was one of them.

Indeed I concur. It's not cool to bust the chops of a newbie especially after s/he got some results. The fact is there are some rather nasty little things running around out there on different planes and s/he was lucky that one did not venture forth to harm him - whether or not asking for them to be nice. I hate to give crap to a Novice only because it can psychologically cause them to be ever fearful to the point they won't practice anylonger.

It is prudent to at the VERY least utter a prayer (or incantation) of a protective nature which is what Mediums do prior to calling out to the world of Spirits. With my very first evocation, I worked with the Elemental Kings (Ghob, Nicksa, Djinn & Paralda) at various times to learn more about how to use their elements in Sorcery. Later my first Spirit that I summoned was from the Goetia and I used ALL warding both from what the book recommended and from what my teachers recommended. But even with all the wards, one can have some problems with the NPE (Non-Physial Entity).

I am not trying to sound harsh but having no clear plan for "who" you intend to speak to in the first place and just asking for anyone who is close is not a good idea.

In all fairness, Bardon discusses "Astral Wanderings" and how you can meet up with new Spirits, make their acqaintance and learn new things. Also it is customary in many cultures for new students of Shamans to travel to the Underworld to learn and do by meeting the NPEs of that realm. Shonenman was experimenting. I give him credit for that since he came out of this unscathed. But you are right - it is better to have a valid, genuine reason for such an action.

I think too many folks on this board take Evocation too lighthearted. While it is easier to do than some other forms of Occultism, many incorrectly think such a thing is going to make them so much more powerful especially before they're ready to accept that power. Conversely, in this instance, we do not know much about Shoneneman's practices, background or anything else which makes the slap on the back or boxing his ears diffiuclt.

All the Best,

In Carl Nagels "Amazing Secrets of Occult Power" he includes a Goetia Ritual wherein he says "if you are using a witching circle" so I gather he claims you can go circless. He states that after prayers, the spirit has no power to harm or influence you. Then Nagel states to thank and bid it farewell and to leave the room immediatley, not returning for three hours. He says your ability to stay out of the room proves that you are in control.
Has anyone tried this method? His method may use personal power as protection although he doesn't say so.

This post has been edited by Sojrn: Feb 17 2007, 12:20 PM

Speaking of "trancing", I have been doing so for as far back as I
can remember, as if it were natural. I used no ritual or rite. When
I was young, all it would take is certain music, and if the environment
allowed, I would slip into a trance, have visions/daydreams, and
they came to pass at some point and time later. I have met entities,
both good and bad, and then there was some REALLY bad ones,
that I was not equipt spiritually or with wisdom to handle them.
As years went on, I learned, both from experience, and practice
of different forms of protection. I am ultra sensitive to the spirit
realms, whether Im doing some rite, or just sitting here typing this
post.

I was astral projecting at 4 years old, I recall distinctively doing so
during "nap" time, and had no clue noone could see or hear me.
Being so young and innocent, it never occurred to me some of the
beings that I could have run into, and I shiver thinking what could
have happened to me. But something was protecting me doing these
trips, as I do not recall ever having a bad experience.

Would I go trancing and "grab outa the bag" ANY entity that was
supposedly friendly NOW? %@%!%!%!$# NO! LOL

I run into enough by accident, don't need to be looking for them LOL.

WHY would you even think of going for the grab bag of the spirit
realm to begin with? I guess thats what I am not understanding.

The Wanderer

evoking without a circe is considered dangerous business