Contacting/evoking Spirits Of Entheogenic Plants?, Mescalito? Lady Salvia?? Options

First things first: I was not absolutely sure where I should put this thread but I decided that it's closer to Spirit Work than Shamanism.
Second things second (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) sorry for another has-anyone-evoked topic that includes no experiences of the author, but I couldn't help it. The curiosity was killing me...

Sooo... Has anyone contacted any plant spirits? I'm not actually asking about hugging trees and that kind of stuff... I'm particularly interested in entheogens and natural psychedelics. They are reported to have spirits that 'belong to' the whole species rather than individual plants. As we can read in one of Castaneda's books (I read it some time ago... was the title 'Don Juan's Teachings'?) peyotl has (as Mexican shamans believe) a Spirit called Mescalito. Castaneda saw him. R. A. Wilson (author of "Cosmic Trigger") also writes he met that entity. Another case is Lady Salvia who is supposed to be the spirit of Salvia Divinorum. There are reports of meeting her or at least of some vague 'feminine presence'.
The two spirits (there are probably more of them) are said to have tendency to choose people that they reveal themselves to, to test them etc...

First question: do you believe in such entheogenic spirits? Do you think they exist in the same way as e.g. Goetic spirits or maybe they're just, as Wilson suggests, a projection created by our minds in response to biological impulses we receive from plants that we interpret & antropomorph?

Second question: do you think that every species (plants? all living organisms?) has a 'collective spirit'?

Third question: have you met any of such entheogenic spirits during your trips? (the thread about psychedelics & magick is quite popular so I assume some of you have had some) Personally I've felt a feminine presence when I smoked Salvia but I'm almost sure it was because of the song that was being played at the moment ('just look in her eyes,' the guy sang). I've never tried peyote as I haven't the slightest idea how I could possibly get it here where I live.

And last but not least, the 4th, purely magickal question: has anyone evoked or otherwise contacted such spirits without the use of drugs? It's one thing to get high and meet fantastic creatures or spirits but another thing is to evoke them... Any experiences? Do you think anything would show up during an evocation? After all, the spirits are not willing to reveal themselves to anyone except people of their own choice, am I right? Especially Lady Salvia is reported to be quite... timid and elusive.

The idea of this thread occurred to me because I'm going to buy a stronger Salvia Divinorum extract after the New Year. I might meet Lady Salvia and if I do, you can be sure I'll write about it here... wish me good trips (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Greetings!
Yes, the plant spirits do exist. And this is definately more a shamanic topic than where you put it...I'll fix that.
Plant allies are relatively easy to communicate withthough I'm probably making light of it having done it so long. It's interesting to find out that you viewed Salvia in that way...My initial contact was one of a decidedly male contact but this aspect varies between plants. I'm excited to find others here on Forum that are delving into this/these subjects!

No, you needn't be 'high' to communicate with plants. Matter of fact I advocate for not being under the influence when you do contact them. A good starter book which mentions this is Michael Harners "The Way of the Shaman". ...also any book that you may find about Findhorn ("the Magic of Findhorn") will explain about plant and land Devas, etc.

I've found it very useful to contact the plant spirit before utilizing that plant in a magical working. Sort of getting "the inside track" on the situation. If more magiciand here would take up sdome shamanic techniques then they would be farther along with their studies...*sigh* but I've never openly discussed this before, keeping it as a hidden edge for when I needed it...

Collective spirits (like Devas) exist. And, I might add, that I find them far more evident than the Goetics...less obnoxious by far!
Getting to know and interact with plants that can provide hallucenogenic trips is a very good idea. I'd even suggest that you do this with ANY plant material that you plan on consuming! *laugh* It could save you alot of heartache in the long run. Good journey to you. I'll be happy to exchange experiences with you at anytime(s).
Peace,
Bym

Castaneda is not really a reliable source. His work as been disputed by many scholars and anthropologists. Even botany experts like R. Wasson (mycology) and Weston La Barre (expert on native peyote ceremonies in the region) question Castenada's claims and region of origins of plants mentioned.

As for your question about contacting plant spirits. Its rather quite common practiced among many shamanic societies.
Among the Shipibo people they drink ayahusca to communicate and learn from the plant species. Among animist/shamanic cultures they all believe in collective spirits.

I believe shamans are correct that plants and all objects do have a spirit. But like wise I also believe the mind can also produce spirit like creatures. So both concepts are correct.

No, you needn't be 'high' to communicate with plants. Matter of fact I advocate for not being under the influence when you do contact them.

Heh, you're right. As I'd written, I bought 1g of 60x extract of Salvia (I know it's a terribly strong one but unfortunately my tolerance to Salvinorin is very high) and had some intense experiences... And having talked to Mr. Curtain, Miss Lamp and Reverend Laptop Screen, I agree that it must be a better idea to communicate with entheogenic (or any) spirits while being sober. I have no idea how one could possibly distinguish between anthropomorphed/personified objects or thoughts and real entities...

It's interesting to find out that you viewed Salvia in that way...My initial contact was one of a decidedly male contact

Well, this time the voice that I heard during the trips was male. (once he was Mr. Curtain and later he was disembodied) He acted like an ironic sitter ("hey, okay, enough, now empty your lungs and lay down" / "haha, you poor little thing, you're so fucked up and trying to be silent... it's pityful how you're doing your best not to let anyone know you're on drugs") When I asked him about Lady Salvia (as I expected a female presence), Her name echoed in the silence that followed.
But, nevermind. It could've been (and probably was) my own mind.

Besides, there are some questions that remained unaswered. What do you think about evoking such spirits? Because, as I understand, people much more often contact them while in trance, using shamanic techniques, rather than in a full-blown evocation ritual. Are plant spirits too weak to manifest on the physical plane? And I guess it would be hard to evoke them as we don't have their sigils or even their real names (Lady Salvia is not a name (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)), wouldn't it? My question is purely theoretical right now but in some time, when I become capable of performing evocations safely... why not?

Oh, and one more thing. Thanks for the info about the book on shamanism, bym. I'm halfway through. I've always wanted to get a bit more serious about shamanism but I didn't know where to start. Thanks again.

This post has been edited by iampagan: Jan 14 2009, 11:37 AM

thanks for starting this thread iampagan, as it is something i am contemplating and working at these days. i started a thread here somewhere titled "garden magick" intended to touch on the same topic as well as the findhorn garden, but this one is going better already (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

i sense a presence when using entheogenic plants, there seems to be unique "personalities", and also find that for me that sense of presence is absent when using lsd. however lsd may provide the mental state conducive to perceiving other natural spirits, just in my experience i dont sense a unique guide there (but that may just be my own preconceptions/bias).

i have recently made a flower essence from Brugmansia candida which has given some interesting effects. most notably, when taking it daily for 2 weeks i had an insatiable 'lust' for tobacco (i'm not a daily smoker), another highly regarded plant spirit, they seem to like each other? also strange urges pulling me out into the bush, which unfortunately i lost before finding whatever it was i seemed to be heading towards. and possibly assistance in finding a lost object on one occasion. apart from that, i felt more intimately connected with the plant, which was already one of my favorite trees, she seems to embody a kind of Seductress archetype, i hadn't really had sexual feelings for a plant before lol

i also like to smoke tobacco with the plants, sometimes the sense of connection with the plant feels very strong however i have never had obvious communication, as in the form of visions, voices, etc, just a sense of wellbeing, in the company of friends. but keep in mind i'm quite new to all this and i feel the use of tobacco with intent may be an excellent method with more practice and experience.

where legal i would highly recommend growing the plants themselves as this is a great way to establish a relationship and open up to the plants true, untampered essence. salvia is an interesting one, i have grown this plant for years and feel quite connected to the spirit, however i rarely ever get the call to consume the plant, i feel like i'll be told when the right time is. it's almost as if s/he is choosey with who she opens up to, as the 'salvia-hardhead' is common and hard to scientifically explain! you may also be interested in trying to chew quids of leaves rather than the potent extracts, just as this gives a relatively more subtle but tangible experience.

i'd also encourage using flower essences, again i am new to this but i feel there's a lot of promise there. not just for plants with shamanic use but i think all plants have something to offer if we can find a way to communicate. i have heard of others using pendulums and techniques similar to keneisiology to determine which medicinal herbs to use and such, that would be interesting to try too.

i haven't read that book of Harner's but i know he was quite fond of inducing trance with drumming, would that be his method of communing with plant spirits also Bym? if you feel like disclosing any of your own methods i'd be very interested to hear (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

thanks,
cosmicinferno

Greetings CosmicInferno!
I'd be careful with the White Trumpet flower...it is in the Nightshade family and has many toxic alkaloids (stramonium, atropine, bufotenine, etc.) Tobacco will potentiate these effects! Coincidentally, tobacco is used shamanically in ritual associated with friendship and camraderie. It is a typical 'gift' for shamans and is a potent ally. Tobacco also potentiates all of the Nightshade family and, go figure, the members of the Cannabis family as well! (So do the Nightshades) Remember also that tomatoes, potatoes are also of the Nightshades. (so are henbane, woody nightshade, etc.)

Harner uses drums to help facilitate trance induction...as well as 'click' sticks. I've found that some forms of music will help. Tracks from The Dead Can Dance, King Crimson and Brahms also work for me. The sounds of a waterfall or a thunderstorm work as well. Bottom line, anything that is repititious and soothing will work. (Whatever floats your boat! LOL!) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Another case is Lady Salvia who is supposed to be the spirit of Salvia Divinorum. There are reports of meeting her or at least of some vague 'feminine presence'.

Be very careful with the Lady. Although I'd very much like to, I haven't smoked Salvia myself, as it is a highly controlled substance where I live, unfortunately. Reading trip reports was a dedicated hobby of mine for a while, though.

Lady Salvia definitely exists; there are a number of reports that mention her. Check Erowid and here.

You will literally be putting your life into her hands if you smoke, so you need to approach her with the utmost reverence. The analogy I'd use here is a ritual I heard about mountaineers and their Sherpas doing with the spirit of Mount Everest, to ask her if she would allow them to climb to the summit. There is, quite seriously, a similar level of risk involved, depending on the dosage you take, so a similar level of politeness needs to be observed. ;-)

She is generally quite shy, but if you are flippant or casual about smoking, and anger her, she can give you a very bad trip...and bad in this case can mean life threatening. Salvia is an extremely powerful and completely immersive/dissociative substance; you go somewhere else entirely when you are on it, which means you will totally lose track of what your body's doing. For that reason, it's probably a good idea to lie down if you're going to smoke. Most reports I've read recommend a sitter, as well.

She knows if people are meant to be spending time with her or not, as well, as apparently not everyone is. She will let you know if you aren't, and you most likely won't see her again after that; it would generally be a good idea not to smoke it any more if that turns out to be the case, as well...although that doesn't happen often.

If you're going to smoke, get real leaf. Dried is more likely; fresh is good if you can, but the plant is extremely rare, does not propagate easily, and is controlled just about everywhere now, sadly, so fresh stuff is extremely hard to come by. Do NOT use the concentrates that are floating around; that's just asking for trouble.

This post has been edited by Petrus: Feb 5 2009, 03:28 AM

Petrus, I'm not absolutely new to Salvia. As I wrote, I have a really high tolerance to this substance - which implies that I've measured it. I started with a lot of theoretical preparations like FAQs, how and why it works etc... - reading Erowid Experience Vault was also my hobby (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_popcorn.gif) Then I started with dried leaves. I used a torch lighter and a self-made bong and tried small amounts first. Then, I upped the amounts to the maximum that I could smoke in 3 minutes - you know it's no use smoking it any longer for it's metabolized too quickly. The most I could get was some light buzz like after a small puff of marijuana smoke. Oh, maybe I reached the threshold of almost-tripping once. So I knew I couldn't get really high on leaves. 20x extract was no good, too. I experimented with small - and gradually bigger - doses and got high only with as much half a gram of 20x. I got really pissed off, really, for I knew it was going to be expensive to get really strong results and I gave up Salvia for half a year or so. I bought this 60x just recently - and talked to some furniture, as mentioned (IMG:style_emoticons/default/haha.gif) But still it wasn't all that I expected. Hardly any visuals, memory loss, 'everything is a dream'... OK, nice, strong, but not enough. And that persistent feeling of being carried away, pulled somewhere... Do you people have it, too, and don't you find it annoying?
That's all for "smoke real leaves" advice. Without extracts I could smoke tobacco or oregano or whatever - with roughly the same results (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)

Now, I don't know if I'm really so casual about smoking. Probably more than I used to be. I tried to treat Salvia as something sacred and I, basically, got rejected. So I went "fvck it, I'll just smoke all that's left" and got SOME results. I always lie down after I take the third hit. I don't have a sitter because a.) they're hard to get, really, who wants to take care of a weeping or panicking fvcked up 20-year-old guy on a Friday evening? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) b.) when I tried once and behaved strange with another person present, I thought "heh, it must look so funny for him" and I started laughing uncontrollably, which ruined the spiritual side of the experience.
I never got completely egoless, though. If I were completely immersed in some alternative worlds, I wouldn't care or notice other people. Or would I?

hello Bym (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (nice taste in music btw! lol)

Thanks for your words of warning, i am quite familiar with the toxicity of the angel's trumpets and the nightshade family, this is part of the reason i chose to make a flower essence - to have a non-toxic means of working with the plant (i value my sanity too much these days! haha). the fact that both tropane alkaloids and nicotine affect the acetylcholine receptor sites initially made me wonder whether the tobacco lust i experienced was an attempt at rebalancing, or to provide a neuroprotective effect to counter tropane effects. however chemically speaking the flower essence would contain close to no tropanes, as the production involves successive dilutions similar to homeopathy, which led me to the conclusion that any effects i experienced were probably not due to the presence of alkaloids.

i have definitely come to understand the reason tobacco is so highly regarded in many shamanic practices, partly due to the experience with the flower essence. it's often what i leave as an offering. i really enjoyed the chapter on tobacco from Narby's book the Cosmic Serpent which deals mostly with ayahuasca shamanism - the shamans say the tobacco is 'spirit food' and that the spirits crave the tobacco! it has a very central role to their healing rituals. quite an interesting counterpart to tobacco use in western culture i thought, where it's all about addiction and illness!

hey iampagan
the dry leaves can be rehydrated by placing in a bowl of water for 10mins or so, you can then quid them. by all means continue to try with the extracts if you like, however chewing some leaves and then smoking an hour later might bring better results.

"And that persistent feeling of being carried away, pulled somewhere... Do you people have it, too, and don't you find it annoying?"

i know the sensation you are talking about, i think it is fairly common. also the annoying/frustrating feeling reminds me of my early attempts at smoking, partly the reason i stopped trying and why i got the feeling that maybe she doesn't like to be smoked. with quiding even at below-threshold dose there is a more blissful feeling. but as i said i haven't got extensive experience with this plant, the ball is in her court in terms of when the next right time is, for the meantime she seems very happy to hang out and share the odd cigarette (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

as i mentioned your 4th question about contacting the spirits without ingestion is quite relevant to where i am on my path these days, i'd like to learn more about it. but another question has arisen for me, perhaps the spirit's true power is best experienced through ingestion? hence why their physical body consists of psychoactive constituents unlike other plant spirits which may still have lessons to offer. especially when purging is involved for example, as this feels like a very healing and cleansing process. the ordeal of ingestion is like a sign of your commitment to the lessons. but i'm just thinking out loud here...

all the best!
Cosmic

Greetings CosmicInferno!
Very nice! I think that your knowledge of the plant chemistry is heartening! All too often people only absorb the surface info when researching their subjects! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
My involvement with the plant spirits are based upon both sides of 'approach' (ie ingestion/evocation or rapport*/invocation)
* - for lack of a better word...?
Salvia was done through ingestion and the experiences are exciting! It has been the closest I've come to universe hopping using a hallucenogenic substance. My first experiences were done by rapport methods and were with violets, lady slipper and oak, hemlock and apple trees. Quite illuminating! Try talking to your lawn sometime...it will blow you away! Then I discovered Findhorn and the Theosophical Society...and the damage was done! *grin*
I forget the author but a very good book was written concerning hallucenogens and the evolution of the human consciousness. In the book the author describes how some of mans greatest evolutionary leaps might have been predicated upon his intentional/unintentional use of intoxicating substances. Fascinating! He goes on to describe the use of a common weed variety of wild grass (Reed Canary Grass) to manufacture a DMT isogen that, in turn, over years of ingestion caused the brain functions of the higher brain to expand and possibly lead to a higher evolutionary state. I've reproduced his method and can attest to the relatively cheap and easy manufacturing of small quantities of DMT (or its many 'salts') Very interesting work. As with most magic the intent has alot to do with your results. Keep this in mind when you use the Salvia (or pot, etc.) Using your mind to 'springboard' yourself into alternate consciousness streams without using a club! Very similar to homeopathic doses to achieve similar results...
Why smoke a whole lid when a few tokes do the same thing? Ponder this *chortle* Sometimes the rapport methods are the safest...but then, sometimes 'safety' is not the issue but rather one of using 'the club'! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/horse.gif)

hey bym
i really appreciate your perspectives on these subjects so thanks again for sharing. my journey with plant spirits thus far has consisted moreso of the ingestion approach which is why i'd like to bring some balance to my experience, and why i'm working at developing these abilities. i can definitely see advantages to the 'rapport' approach once tuned in and it's nice to hear from someone with experience on both sides.

i also found the findhorn garden very inspiring to read about, it helped me to trust my intuition more with herbs and plants in the garden, i hope one day i can have a chat with an apple tree or my lawn too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

the first book that came to mind when you mentioned the role of hallucinogenic plants in the evolution of human consciousness was Terrence McKenna's 'Food of the Gods'. his theory mostly concerns psilocybe mushrooms though, i haven't heard about the reed canary grass but that sounds very interesting too. McKenna's idea was that, as our ancestors moved out of the forests and into the grasslands of africa we would have stumbled upon these mushrooms growing in cattle dung, tested them as a food source and noticed the increase in visual acuity which comes with low doses. this would have provided an advantage as hunters and an incentive to seek out the mushrooms more often, leading eventually to ingestion of higher doses, which he believed may have facilitated the development of language, religion and other attributes that define human culture. fascinating stuff indeed!

i have had more experience with dmt than i have with salvia, in australia a number of the native acacias contain dmt in the bark so it's not too hard to come by. dmt has provided some of the most interesting and illuminating experiences, but admittedly also shown me that it's all to easy to find yourself 'out of your league' if not really careful, again reinforcing the importance of personal protection/ritual for me, and the ability to develop that 'rapport'. some people here are experimenting with a 'smokable ayahuasca', consisting of a smaller dose of dmt extracted and then applied to b. caapi leaves to provide some mao inhibition. i feel this provides a slightly more grounded experience with a slightly longer duration of effects.

your point about intention cannot be emphasised enough, this is often what makes the difference between experiencing true magic and simply 'tripping' i feel. although i'm not completely against the idea of people using such plants for 'fun', laughter is the best medicine after all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) another reason i feel that a spiritual/magical background is highly beneficial when pursuing such an approach is to cultivate that all essential self-knowledge; i think the ego can sometimes get in between the Self and the Divine message and create distortion, leading to delusion. i speak here from my own experience and mistakes, but also in observing others around me. i think this is probably more of a danger when ingesting hallucinogens and highlights another advantage to the rapport approach. but im probably heading off topic a bit, it's getting late, i'll leave it there!

cheers

Hello all,
I find this topic intruiging and is where i focus alot of my studies. I wish to gain practical knowledge of the enthogenic plant world. Shamanic practices interest me. Also dream works. I have had some experience in these matters, but not much and am trying to learn more. At the same time im trying to learn about these things im also trying to avoid abusing these substances. I have had much experience with drug abuse and am in recovery now. Sometimes I wonder and worry about how these substances could hurt my recovery. But I think if i keep my head on straight i will be ok. anyway, I have tryed a salvia extract, and found it to be not good for me. I took one large toke and held it and the next thing i know i felt my body go numb and came to on the ground looking around for my soul that escaped my body or something. It was disturbing. I am currently trying HBW seeds. I like these. It stimulates calmness of mind and helps improve breathing, and also sexual stimulation. One word of caution is to fast the day of consumption, as you get sick if you eat. Also the taste is bad so i grind the seeds and dissovle in a small amount of water. I find 5 seeds to work ok. I have tryed san pedro cactus but the taste was horrible and outwieghd the affects, though im sure there is ways to diminish this. I had a vision of a fountain of light in a dark place that was cool, and a deep sence of inner calm. One substance that is interesting is dxm. I find it very dangerous, but the high dose affects are interesting with the near death experience, and more common out of body experience. I have had some practice with this but find the side affects far to damaging. I am interested ayuhascaan as well, but never tried it. has anyone hurd of the santo daim? anyway I am still learning and if anyone has ideas or suggestions i would like to hear.

So...you're in recovery? This changes the approach dramatically! Stay away from hallucinogens and 'high' producing drugs...(nutmeg, nightshade(s), marijuana/hashish, blue lotus, morning glory, reed canary grass, scotch broom, etc.) and try just regular herbs or trees. Don't necessarily ingest them, rather go on a shamanic 'journey' and record your results! All too often new shamans are hellbent for election and want to experience various 'highs' induced by drug ingestion. That's really bad form and often leads to complications and self-induced delusions! Journey with a plant...say, a violet, dill or a squash! Try some forms of incense! Using shamanics to justify drug use isn't very smart...not that you were attempting such a thing...? There's more to life than getting high! Give magic a try without the drugs!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

Petrus, I'm not absolutely new to Salvia. As I wrote, I have a really high tolerance to this substance - which implies that I've measured it. I started with a lot of theoretical preparations like FAQs, how and why it works etc... - reading Erowid Experience Vault was also my hobby (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mf_popcorn.gif) Then I started with dried leaves. I used a torch lighter and a self-made bong and tried small amounts first. Then, I upped the amounts to the maximum that I could smoke in 3 minutes - you know it's no use smoking it any longer for it's metabolized too quickly. The most I could get was some light buzz like after a small puff of marijuana smoke. Oh, maybe I reached the threshold of almost-tripping once. So I knew I couldn't get really high on leaves. 20x extract was no good, too. I experimented with small - and gradually bigger - doses and got high only with as much half a gram of 20x. I got really pissed off, really, for I knew it was going to be expensive to get really strong results and I gave up Salvia for half a year or so. I bought this 60x just recently - and talked to some furniture, as mentioned (IMG:style_emoticons/default/haha.gif) But still it wasn't all that I expected. Hardly any visuals, memory loss, 'everything is a dream'... OK, nice, strong, but not enough. And that persistent feeling of being carried away, pulled somewhere... Do you people have it, too, and don't you find it annoying?
That's all for "smoke real leaves" advice. Without extracts I could smoke tobacco or oregano or whatever - with roughly the same results (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rant.gif)

Now, I don't know if I'm really so casual about smoking. Probably more than I used to be. I tried to treat Salvia as something sacred and I, basically, got rejected. So I went "fvck it, I'll just smoke all that's left" and got SOME results. I always lie down after I take the third hit. I don't have a sitter because a.) they're hard to get, really, who wants to take care of a weeping or panicking fvcked up 20-year-old guy on a Friday evening? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) b.) when I tried once and behaved strange with another person present, I thought "heh, it must look so funny for him" and I started laughing uncontrollably, which ruined the spiritual side of the experience.
I never got completely egoless, though. If I were completely immersed in some alternative worlds, I wouldn't care or notice other people. Or would I?

I used to smoke alotttttt of pot and do pills and diffrent things. My first experience with salvia i had looked forward to and studied on for months so i purchased some 20x and it arrived i got me a bong and a torh lighter. I took massive hits till my lungs could'nt hold anymore and held it till i felt like i was going to pass out and nooo effects after smoking a gram in maybe 5 minutes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/angry_pissed_off_emoticon.gif) . So yeah as you can probably guess after all this time put into studying it and stuff i was pissed. So one night couples weeks later i went to a buddies house we had smoked like 3 blunts and did about 20 or so perk 10's so i was already pretty fried needless to say. He pulled out the salvia and it was 75x. I dont know what it was from were i was fried already or the more dosage 1 hit was al it took and it felt like the room collapsed on me and i was laughing like crazy i tried to go into a meditative state and enjoy it but these were the only experience i had with it after that one hit i couldnt do anymore due to i was feeling the night come to an end. It was a rather fascinating experience but i would love to try something like 100x or above maybe i would trip alot harder and meet lady salvia. IS hopeing

My communication with plant spirits has been small. Mostly feeling their emotional state.