Two Dead In Arizona During 'spiritual Cleanse' Options

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/topst...at_lodge_deaths

Here's one link to the story, I'll get back and comment later when I've got more time.

I periodically hear about things like this. To me the lesson in it is very simple; Native American ceremony is for Native Americans, ONLY, and not us.

What do you mean “not us”? Not occultist?

Anyone who tries to go the instant gratification route with this sort of thing, is asking for trouble. It is especially foolish to attempt to engage in any arduous form of asceticism without rigorous, long term training beforehand.

Agreed.

What do you mean “not us”? Not occultist?

"Us," meaning anyone who isn't ethnically Native American, basically; although yes, non-muggles as well. There are some systems, however, that can be borrowed from without it necessarily causing harm. Theirs, from everything I've ever seen however, isn't one of them, and I consider it off limits.

"Us," meaning anyone who isn't ethnically Native American, basically; although yes, non-muggles as well. There are some systems, however, that can be borrowed from without it necessarily causing harm. Theirs, from everything I've ever seen however, isn't one of them, and I consider it off limits.

It depends--most of their 'esoteric secrets' have parallels in most traditional/shamanic societies. Some are teaching them to interested non-NA's because their own cultures are dying out and they'd rather see the old ways preserved by a different ethnic group than go extinct. That, however, depends on the medicine man teaching it and the relationship(s) to their student(s). So...

IMO these people died not because he stole something from a system and it came back to bite him in the ass, but because he didn't follow proper safety and first aid procedures. This is no different than taking them on an extended camping trip, say, and then having people go into diabetic shock or something because they're not getting enough Calories for their activity level and they brought insufficient food supplies and/or don't know how to forage. The trip leader would still be held responsible, esp. if he pulled a Dr. Ray and sat back and did nothing while others suffered.

Or in lolcat:

(IMG:http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/8/21/campingurdoin128638231134631601.jpg)

And as for the 'Big Secret:'

(IMG:http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/5/23/128560368865870303.jpg)

Oh, the latest news on the story is that they're trying to get a gag order on this, so there may not be any more news stories about this for a while. I'm not sure if the gag order is going to go through, though, as it all depends on the judge's opinion.

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Feb 12 2010, 06:48 AM