Ummm... Hi, These Are Um My Ideas Dont Laugh Please. Options

i um... i believe that the world is um perfect. i think that there is nothing wrong with anything because well, everything happens for a reason and well... its like a really cool way of fitting the peices together. like um have you ever seen um final destination. okay i know its stupid but like have you becuase that way they day the design and stuff is like how life works and stuff. um but um i think that this is how life works and makes our lives perfect but um i dont think we need to understand anything. i um think that we need to just live and enjoy life. i think... um never mind bye

i um... i believe that the world is um perfect. i think that there is nothing wrong with anything because well, everything happens for a reason and well... its like a really cool way of fitting the peices together. like um have you ever seen um final destination. okay i know its stupid but like have you becuase that way they day the design and stuff is like how life works and stuff. um but um i think that this is how life works and makes our lives perfect but um i dont think we need to understand anything. i um think that we need to just live and enjoy life. i think... um never mind bye

I must say this is actually a intresting point of view.
a better version of my IDGAF

Not one being made life and has no right to change it, or destroy it for that matter-but we have free will and can sure try.
I agree that life itself is what you would deem as 'perfect', as in, there is no mistakes (on nature part) and that its very probable that things have their reasons but dealing on the lower scale of things, Human relations for example, are in my opinion very flawed. I believe that its mainly due to conflicting personalities that we, Humanity are flawed yet biologically we are perfection. We reproduce, we heal, we feel. Its just our pecerptions of the working of it all that is imperfect.
Did nature make a mistake and create beings with the capabilities of understanding yet never able to fully understand the vastness and exquisiteness of existence?
probably not!

Peace.

This post has been edited by al_zaine: Jan 21 2008, 10:27 AM

okay but let me um put in this... it is our perception. why is it some rich people are miserable while poors are full of joy. its you. i am perfect. you are perfect. even if you dont see it. so what im shy. so what no one listens usually to me. the fact that i see myself as perfect means i am. the reason you think everything is imperfect is its direct reflection on you your perspective on your life. in other words. if you see it it is true. hence everyone is right and wrong. i dont believe in the grand scheme of things but i do believe in life. i beleive so many live in this world without living and only realize to soon to their demise. in other word... life is what you make it and life is perfect. so is all in and out of it. everything runs on the core root of this one thing... life. life runs on life. death runs on life. knowledge... everything. and if you ask me to explain what life is i wont. even if i knew the complete answer i wouldnt because... life is different for EVERYONE. it is what it is and will always be. what we call will could just be simply the individual. what we call law could just be what we want to be right, chaos... the things not understood. why then must we understand all. what makes the quest for knowledge, power, and supremeness so eminent in all man. why not live. why stretch to understand. i believe we understand naturally and when we try to understand these things we already understand and put them in a definite explination that's when we screw ourselves over. in other words... i believe if we just experience and live we will see everything. to take a phrase from a disney movie:

we will paint with all the colors of the wind

You can own the Earth and still
All you'll own is Earth until
You can paint with all the colors of the wind

I think this is perhaps one of the most misconstrued beliefs of the eastern traditions. The idea of perfection of everything 'as is' and the relationship between perception and perfection. The Taoist tradition in particular has led many westerners to come to this conclusion.

What it sounds like you are talking about is acceptance, and it's an important thing. But perfection is something that comes after one can look objectively at him/herself, and the world around them, and say "There is a reason it is this way, the order of the universe is perfect." However, material things - people, animals, plants, the cosmos - is imperfect by it's nature. It is far removed from the origin of all things - God, the negative space, the Source, whatever - and the process of perfection is the process of coming back into perfect union with that Source.

If you believe that you are perfect as you are, you will stop progressing. If you are perfect now, what happens when you begin to change? Are you more perfect? Were you less perfect before? The Path may be perfect, and your movement in the world may be perfect, but the object itself, the being, is perfected by that path. We don't start out perfect, nothing does.

To say that, "Everything is perfect as it is, because that's how it was intended to be," implies that the Source manifested a perfect existence. Accepting that you are not perfect, gives you a point of reference, and a direction to strive for. The problem with many people in the world is that they already believe they are perfect, therefore they continue to be and act as they are now, when in reality that are not perfect at all, and even less so for believing they are.

Certainly look at yourself as you are, accept all of it, and say, "This is who I am now, this is where I am now, and it's okay." Because it is - we all grow and change, and that process begins when we accept our good and our bad for what it is - our situation in life can only change by accepting it as it is in the present.

Does that mean we should seek perfection specifically? No, it means that we accept that our spiritual path, our karma, is divinely ordained and perfect, and we face it knowing that our path is more perfect than ourselves, and that the Divine is the only true perfection. Then, we become perfected by surrendering to our path, and to the Divine Source which put us on it.

If you are perfect, what meaning is there to life? If the world is perfect, what meaning is there to the world? If material things are perfect, what else is there to gain from existence? Being perfect 'as you are' or 'in this moment' is but an aspect of the perfection of the Path and Divine Will - to confuse it with all things being perfect entirely, will lead to stagnation. It would be less confusing to say "You are where you are supposed to be, you are who you are supposed to be." You are supposed to be imperfect. You might say you are 'Perfectly Imperfect' but that implies, psychologically, that you should remain imperfect. You should not.

peace

At this moment, everything looks perfect.

I have been given this chance to be.
I am alive and breathing.
There is more to perfection?

Perhaps in the next moment I will not be perfect.
Alas, that moment has yet to come.

um vagrant you have points but the thing i mostly see that i find very interesting in all is the definitive. everything has to be set in stone or its not complete. just because i believe i am perfect does not mean that i stop striving to be better. what makes me perfect is that i continue to live. to experience. to dream see my faults work on them and believe. you see perfection in my opinion is misunderstood. if a flower is beautiful and then dies was it any less perfect. if a cat is a perfect pet then scratches you for its own reason does the perfection fade. the thing that makes perfection perfection is the thing that makes life beautiful. it changes. it continues. it marches on. it improves on itself. the ultimate beings out there are considered perfect yet im sure if you got in contact with them they live and try to figure stuff out just like us. no one holds all the answers for change is change. the thing that makes me perfect is i accept me and i dont. i want to continue to be the shining light. i want to continue to change. but i believe everything fits in the cosmic scheme whether it exists or not. i believe we are all perfect because we are each unique.

" a woman walks home from work. usually she would take the subway but today is to perfect a day. she walks a block and sees a dog caught under a branch. she goes helps it and continues home. she makes it to the corner and decides she wants ice cream. she goes in and see a boy on the phone. he looks at the ice cream and keeps counting his change. he doesn't have enough. he starts saying some messed up things to the person on the phone. very dark and negative. the woman gets two ice creams hands him one buys both and smiles at the kid. he looks at her dumbfounded. say thanx and then runs home. she goes home and watches the political debate on tv till she falls asleep.

the dog runs off. sees a girl with an ice cream. comes up to her and the girl pets it. the dog licks her makes her laugh and then runs off. the dog runs until he sees a woman being held up with gun. he starts going to the scene until the man kicks the dog. the woman screams and the dog starts barking.

the woman is frantic and thinks that no one will help her until this dog comes. she doesn't know what to do but then a kid comes and yells "SOMEONE CALL THE POLICE" the man runs away. the woman is hysterically thankful and runs home to her husband and month old. she tells the husband the whole story and the man goes to the police. they say that they cant do anything since they are so short understaffed as is. the man throws a fit and storms out.

the man with the gun is sad when he gets home as he sees once more there is nothing to eat. his wife is still eating alpo dog food. his kids are wearing trashbags. thank god that this is an abandoned place. he was a successful business man till the company went under screwing him and others. now he resorted to this. he hated it but he couldnt stand the sight of how his family looked and what they were going through. what else could he do. that night he went to sleep cryin for the 8th time that week.

the girl goes inside and sees mommy and daddy fighting and runs to her room. she turns on the tv and sees a debate about politics and decides that she wants to do something with her life. she calls a friend. she and the friend argue then he changes his tone. he starts supporting her. so she has new found faith and starts that night coming up with ideas on how to change the world starting with her home town.

the friend is a boy in a store. he doesnt have enough for an ice cream. all he wants is one on this hot day. the girl is talking to him about her thoughts. "you cant make a difference. there is no hope this world is f***ed. i'm happy your all on good terms with the world but it wont happen. your a girl and in the ghetto. get over it." a woman buys him an ice cream. he is shocked. he starts talking to his friend without even thinking. " you know what though... if you want this that bad ill support you. i believe you could change the world." he hangs up and walks home. he hears a dog barking and then a scream for help. he runs to see a dog trying to protect a woman from getting robbed. he screams " SOMEONE CALL THE POLICE" the man runs away and the woman thanx the boy. the boy runs home and sits down on his bed thinking of everything till he goes to sleep."


hopefully that helps a little bit

I think the over tone of the question touches on the greater philosophical view that all that has, is and ever will exist already has existed and that we as conscious beings are merely observing the unfolding of reality. We're just alone for the ride in other words. In a sense it means predestination. Everything is already set in motion. It doesn't matter if there is a purpose to it, nor rhyme or reason, it just is. In that sense individual perfection is pointless and immaterial, because it not the single sub-atomic particals that make up a molecule, rather the culmination of all particles, weather infanitely small or vast that create perfection. Under this model, pain and pleasure do not matter. They are merely our interpretation of stimuli as the universe unravels itself, with no function greater than that. In short, we and everything are all perfect, not because we individually are just mgaickally so, but because we are a part of the greater universal structure that is perfection in all its glory.

The flaw in the philosophy is free will. If we truely have free will and we already know that we are as perfect as we're going to be, then why continue? Yet even this very conflict undermines the fact that everything that has happened, is happening and will happen, already has we're just observing it from a single point in time/space. Thus is you say 'hey I'm as a perfect as I'm going to get I'll just lay down and die", then it was already meant to happen. Under this paradigm there is no mundane escape from predistination, at least not one I can think of. "Escape" requires one to totally trancend reality entirely; to become seperate, and yet just as eternal as the universe itself. In that sense one would have achieved individual perfection as they themselves would become essentially as Gods, infanitly small and equally vast. Sadly, even this is still a part of predestination. If you were meant to trancend reality, then you already have and if you haven't yet, then you are just not on the correct point in time/space. Essentially, under this model, there is no free will, everything a person is, was or will be, every thought, every atom they contacted, created or destroyed, has on some level, already occured and hence the universe as a whole is perfect.

hey! the word "perfect" can imply a couple different things. It can be a personal expression of what a person wants to become, it can be a point of acceptance, it can imply the ultimate Fate (that is ehem, we are all designated our own 'perfect' niche in the system) but what else can it imply? I can recall at least one thread that i ended up discussing the idea of becoming a "paragon" as the main reason why we might choose to reincarnate, or evolve spiritually (yes, transcendence is the word of the day!). That is why Christ is such a powerful symbol. As is Buddha. But is this need truly a driving force behind totally embracing the Source?
Essentially, that is what i feel you are doing in your own way. I see that you no longer feel the need to become a paragon, rather that you ARE one as is everyone. Now the thing that you must strive for is complete faith in your theory for you are still a seperate entity from Everything else, and in this way Perfection is not complete, and cannot be fully experienced.
Some might argue that perfection cannot be incomplete, but only human perfection denotes that we are complete as we are now, and that there can be only one dimension of perfection. But Perfection takes many forms, and therefore if one of these is ignored, it is lacking.
As i understand, this is a question of perception, and therefore Perfection must be perceived and experienced at all levels...and as you are now, you are only as perfect as you settle for...you are only as perfect as you demonstrate. You are only as perfect as You resolve to be.

This post has been edited by valkyrie: Jan 23 2008, 10:35 PM

I think the over tone of the question touches on the greater philosophical view that all that has, is and ever will exist already has existed.......... Everything is already set in motion. It doesn't matter if there is a purpose to it, nor rhyme or reason, it just is......... its not the single sub-atomic particals that make up a molecule, rather the culmination of all particles, weather infanitely small or vast that create perfection.......... pain and pleasure do not matter. They are merely our interpretation of stimuli as the universe unravels itself, with no function greater than that. In short, we and everything are all perfect, not because we individually are just mgaickally so, but because we are a part of the greater universal structure that is perfection in all its glory.

You never seize to amaze me Acid. In my eyes you carry great understanding of Life.

The flaw in the philosophy is free will. If we truely have free will and we already know that we are as perfect as we're going to be, then why continue?........

Vey interesting query. I have one view which is that the life you are living now might not be the same just 2 years down the line, the 'cards dealt' might be "better"(in your own perception) and you may learn 'new' things. I have always believed that all knowledge that was and all knowledge that will be is surrounding us right now, maybe we carry it within, same thing really. Macro/Microcosm. The point is is that nothing is new, All is and and was and All will always be. That is the perfection, the All. And we are of the All.
From our personal perception of things, life may not have been perfect when dealt 'crap cards' but looking at the big picture, All is perfect.......in maintaining imperfection!
A baby is born blind, some will see it as a hindrance and imperfection which is understandable yet what is is and that baby was meant to be born blind, eventually acquiring great hearing and a sense of touch.

Thus if you say 'hey I'm as a perfect as I'm going to get I'll just lay down and die", then it was already meant to happen. Under this paradigm there is no mundane escape from predistination, at least not one I can think of. "Escape" requires one to totally trancend reality entirely; to become seperate.........

In truth, such a thing is impossible, transcending all of reality, as the essence of reality is Space/Nothingness which has no above or below, no left or right. Existence is eternal, the is nowhere you can go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/insane.gif) ....we are the slaves of existence and I would have it no other way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lock.gif)

If you were meant to trancend reality, then you already have and if you haven't yet, then you are just not on the correct point in time/space.

As you say it yourself, existence is in control of everything.

Essentially, under this model, there is no free will, everything a person is, was or will be, every thought, every atom they contacted, created or destroyed, has on some level, already occured and hence the universe as a whole is perfect.

Perfect!
Peace
Al.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

This post has been edited by al_zaine: Jan 24 2008, 06:52 PM

wow... i must say... al_zaine you are really cool. you definitly have a unique aura about you i can tell... n e way i agree that everyone has a right idea on what they believe to be perfect and that is what i believe makes everyone perfect....

there is a saying that says:

everyone has there own reality we all just agree on one to check up on every now and then.

another says:

“I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say let... lets evolve, let the chips fall where they may.”

that is what actually makes my point... i let and therefore i think that is the perfection when you:

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything. Only after disaster can we be resurrected.

Everything that is, is as it should be.

I had a satori experience a few years ago. In other words, I became the universe. Much of what I experienced wouldn't fit inside of my skull after I returned to my mundane body, but I do remember that although we have sickness, accident, murder and many other things that seem unfair or less than perfect, everything is as it is supposed to be. There is a purpose even to the bad things that happen to us.

A baby is born blind, some will see it as a hindrance and imperfection which is understandable yet what is is and that baby was meant to be born blind, eventually acquiring great hearing and a sense of touch.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworking.gif)
I don't agree with my own comment anymore. Someone being born blind is an imperfection and Man should strive to fix things. We should strive for perfection....because we aren't their yet. I can't honestly sit here and say that all the messed up sh*t in the World is meant to be here and that we should do nothing and accept it. Hell no! we have to fix the mistakes this existence has given us.
We are the repairers!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

This post has been edited by al_zaine: Feb 5 2009, 06:42 PM

I think it comes down to what does it mean to be perfect? Perfection is without flaw so then what is "flaw". An error, something that wasn't suppose to happen, something out of character, a mishap. And yet it also boils down to context. On a true universal level, reality IS perfect but within it are things that we percieve as flaws. The universe does not error. Its doing what it is suppose to. On a universal level, an imperfection is something wrong with the system - as in the physics of nature. A baby being born blind does not violate physics. To us a baby born blind is a flaw but it is a flaw of genetics, not the physical nature of reality. So in that sense, even though blindness is a genetic flaw that we perceive as an error in existance, the baby is no less perfect because at its core element, it is still of this universe.

When considering perfection is important that we seperate ourselves from our own perceptions that blind us from truly seeing perfection as it is and we must see it within a given context. Philosophically, the whole of reality all time space and matter all that ever is was or will be combined into one universe is perfection. The question becomes what is beyond perfection? Something that we could even equate to Brahman, or the Hindu version of divinity. Brahman is perfection, he is also flaw. He is everything concievable and everything inconcievable. It impossible to know Brahman and yet we experience him through everything we do and through all that we live.

There is a saying "A man who claims to know the Tao does not know the true Tao".

Theres a few thing toiling away in my mind about this, if on a true universal level 'reality' was perfect ,as in absolutely flawless then the same principle should run throughout the system, including the Human genome. People would never need braces for their teeth because they will be as they should, not out of place.
When you consider what science and astronomy have discovered and how lucky we are to be here, i mean, we came from a blast of energy, we're surrounded by radiation and a number of potentially life threatening possibilities, our very existence seems accidental, its even told to be, the scientists say we were created by chance from colliding forces. Its the very nature of the universe, conflict. Only before the Big Bang was there no conflict and there was no before thats why there was no conflict, because the was no existence. I believe that maybe universal conflict is the root cause of imperfections because we choose to go against imperfection and seek perfection therefore continuing the cycle of conflict.
The saying "A man who claims to know the Tao does not know the true Tao" I have heard before but lets really consider, its like anything else really. If a man thought of himself to be wise and could not find the answer to 3x5 and proclaimed nobody could know the answer, are we to believe him? Who are they to say such a thing. Because they could not know the Way, the Most Perfect doesn't really mean another person can't. Maybe in 100 years from now when Man's brain will grow to a capacity where it can filter the information better and come to an understanding of perfection Mankind may have the chance of actually knowing perfection, knowing the Truth.
This all goes too deep, I mean we could go into what can we say we truly know, we hardly know ourselves yet, we don't even know the true vastness of existence, who knows what is discovered.
Who knows?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif)

Wat is perfection anyway? I think its a feeling, its how you may feel towards something, or how someone else feels toward something. Its a point of view. and all are different. Can anything realy be perfect? It can be to someone but not to the next. If god thought the world was perfect; then the devil would think it unperfect and vise versa. I think its a good feeling to have and if is had it should be held onto until it dissoleves and you may strive for it ones again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/uglyhammer.gif)