Planetary Hours: Are They For Real?, and if they are, what is the mechanism Options

Hello all,

Trying to get that ugly brand of "3 posts probation" off of my avatar. Apparently replying doesn't count.

So, any thoughts on the planetary hours?

Hello all,

Trying to get that ugly brand of "3 posts probation" off of my avatar. Apparently replying doesn't count.

So, any thoughts on the planetary hours?

There is a minimum character count required to constitute a 'post'. Also, posts in the 'social' forums (coffee shop, neophyte hall, etc., that whole section) don't count as they are frequently more introductory and less generally constructive.

That said, if I had the ability I would uncount this post - that is an very vague, and general question on a broad subject. Posting thoughtlessly just to build up a post count is exactly why there are such particulars regarding how posts are counted. If you'd like to follow up with a pointed question about planetary hours (there is ample information to find if you use the search feature) that would be fine, otherwise I'll delete this topic.

peace

I was joking! I guess it's hard to get that across through text. This is my question, in more detail:

1. Who here has noticed that there does seem to be an effect, i.e., they've noticed in meetings that nothing gets done during a Moon hour, but when it switches to a Saturn hour people get down to business.

2. Given that the effect is there, what could be causing it? There is the traditional astrological explanation, but there could be other ones too.

Thank you to Tomber and Draw in the coffee shop for your responses.

-Myrna

2. Given that the effect is there, what could be causing it? There is the traditional astrological explanation, but there could be other ones too.

I've put it down to a particular type of resonance that each of these hours has. I have considered experimenting with planetary hours to see what extra 'boost' they give to particular spells, but there are so many variables; moon phase, season, what day it is, position of planets, even the weather.

Disregarding evocation/invocation, where I imagine planetary hours play a bigger part, it's more the days themselves that I feel the biggest pull on magickal workings. And even the days don't feel as potent as the moon, though as I've been experimenting more with witchcraft recently that may not be surprising.

I'm interested to hear the thoughts of someone more practiced in planetary magick and whether they think planetary hours apply across the board outside of their general area.

This post has been edited by ellmaring: Oct 4 2010, 06:40 AM

So, any thoughts on the planetary hours?

There are enough different models within various paradigms (Christianity and Hinduism, as well as the tropical astrological system) for me to be inclined to suspect that there probably is some substance to the theory; however, as much as the presence of multiple models strengthens the case for such an idea, it also muddies the waters.

About the only thing that I could really recommend would be intense, individual experimentation. This type of phenomena is one of the key reasons why maintaining a grimoire is generally encouraged; the idea being that a given set of conditions is more likely to be reproducible later, if the astrological or various other influences during the initial scenario were known.

A problem with magickal material online is the immense amount of fluff and detritus which tends to be found; some of it may well be valid, but you can never really know until you verify it yourself.

I would have to say I think aspects are much more important than "astrological hours", I don't particularly agree with hours being ruled by planets unless you are referring to which planet is on the midheaven or ascendant. The way I see the planets is they reflect what is in the air, the zeitgeist so to speak. That term comes up every now any then in astrological literature too.

ellmaring mentioned the moon, and "planetary hours" more in the terms, I think, that you were using. I personally do not believe the moon merits a stronger focus than other planets because in my experience all the planets play a huge part what is going on. Some people may make the argument that the moon and sun are the foci which dominate the sky but I disagree. For example mars may just operate in the ego at a different level, and be more prone to activation when it is in the right place. Sure nothing is important without emotions and the ego (moon/sun) but being able to feel and be aware means nothing if nothing exists to be observed (rest of the planets). People might disagree and have good reasons when they do, but simply put this is what I think. I could go more in-depth about it if you brought up specific points.

As to what is causing this sort of synchronicity, or string of coincidences , no one knows. I would say the Creator of everything is who, instead of what, causes this, i.e. intelligent design. As for the mechanics I have no opinion that I can reasonably argue for.

I would argue that any effect caused is probably caused by the sustained ritual of using the Gregorian calender, either the magic simply built up over time or was seeded by the people who
first started using the 7 days of the week as we do now.

I have to say I've not been very familiar with the planetary hours up until resently so i can't say it works out of experience,
but as it holds a synchronicity with the 7days of the week which is a powerful cultural imprint it would surprise me greatly if it didn't work.

Seeing it as man-made thing as i do, i don't really approve of it, it's influence is powerful yet simplistic, the actual influence of the planets is a different thing entirely.
It would seem to me that the energy's of the planets are just used as a template because they where well known to the people at the time an be easy for them to use.

Compare the whole thing to something professionally made like the Mayan calender an it seems well... out of date?
I will make a topic on that point so as not to derail the thread.

I am currently in the hour of Jupiter -would now be a good time to buy a lotto ticket?
while i'm not a fan i have based that on very little experience so i'm also going to start using them more often. to buy lotto tickets. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There are enough different models within various paradigms (Christianity and Hinduism, as well as the tropical astrological system) for me to be inclined to suspect that there probably is some substance to the theory; however, as much as the presence of multiple models strengthens the case for such an idea, it also muddies the waters.

About the only thing that I could really recommend would be intense, individual experimentation. This type of phenomena is one of the key reasons why maintaining a grimoire is generally encouraged; the idea being that a given set of conditions is more likely to be reproducible later, if the astrological or various other influences during the initial scenario were known.

A problem with magickal material online is the immense amount of fluff and detritus which tends to be found; some of it may well be valid, but you can never really know until you verify it yourself.

Totally agreed about the need for individual experimentation.

I know that astrology sprang up independently in various parts of the world; do you mean that these systems of astrology also included a planetary hour system?

This post has been edited by Myrna: Oct 7 2010, 01:10 PM

You can throw out your "Kabbalistic Handbook" right now.
The planetary hour systems are pure chaos.

For example, right now it is 6:30 PM in Las Vegas.
The weather service says that the Sun rises at 6:41 AM today, a Thursday.

The planetary hours work from Saturn to the Moon, then repeat. So we begin the Day of Jupiter with the Hour of Jupiter, then Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury, the Moon, and we start over again with Saturn, then Jupiter etc.

If we simply count the hours from Sunrise, we get 11 hours and 49 minutes.

Now if it is just a matter of 60-minute divisions from Sunrise, we would be at the end of the Hour of Mars.

If we consider Sunrise to be 6AM, we would be in the Hour of the Moon.

If we use a "Sunrise is always at 7AM" rule, we would be in the Hour of Jupiter.

You might also prefer a rule whereby the hours are reckoned from Midnight, which would place us now in the Hour of Mercury.

If you wanted even more confusion, recall that such works as the Key of Solomon are based in Judaism, which counts the Sunset as the first hour. That would put us in the Hour of Venus.

If that were not enough, the ultimate confusion comes from using the instructions of some authors who advise you to divide the hours of daylight for a given day, and make each "hour" shorter with one set for day and another for night. Since the Sun sets at 6:15 today, that makes each hour actually only 54 minutes and 40 seconds. This puts us in the Hour of Jupiter.

If I were to actually go out and watch the Sun rise and set, I would take away time from the latter calculations due to mountain ranges that delay Sunrise and hasten Sunset. This would put us in the Hour of the Sun.

If we are especially afraid of working outside the planetary rule, we can be certain only that this is not a good time for Saturnine conjurations.

In my opinion, this indicates that there is no universal pattern which generates a certain type of planetary power at a particular time, or that some of the systems are simply wrong. Since I know of people who work by differing systems, I cannot say that there is one true system and the others are wrong. I am sure that plenty of people settle on one method of arriving at the "correct" planetary hour and just pretend that it is the one true way.

I am inclined to think that these systems are arbitrary observances which have no connection whatsoever to natural cycles or powers. Working with particular parts of a ritual at particular times is a way to maintain a sort of consistency with regard to one's occult practices, so that everything is done deliberately for all works within that system. It is a practical guide, necessary in that it demonstrates resolution and attention to detail which are critical elements in the older conjuring systems, but also irrelevant to natural or supernatural events.

More modern systems use a preliminary planetary invocation (Hexagram rituals, for example), or otherwise attempt to generate a physical or emotional atmosphere conducive to the planetary power involved in the work. If you want to use Astrology as the basis of a system of planetary hours, you might look to the ruling planet for the House in which the Sun appears.

This post has been edited by Imperial Arts: Oct 7 2010, 09:31 PM

It's the third hour of Venus here lol

[color=#3333FF]You can throw out your "Kabbalistic Handbook" right now.

There's no need; I don't own it. I don't own his other book either, although the death-metal demon dude on the cover makes it pretty tempting...regarding your post:

1. Who would ever say "sunrise is 6 am" or "sunrise is 7 am"? Also, I've never heard of using midnight as the starting point.

2. Regarding the "Jewish day" issue, that wouldn't perturb the hours, it would offset everything by half of a cycle. Aren't there any historical records that can settle this question?

3. Your point about mountain ranges is a good one; along the same lines, I wonder what magicians in Alaska do lol.

Personally, I believe that if there is anything to the planetary hour system, it is probably due to circadian rhythms. But then the first hour of Tuesday, for example, shouldn't be any different from the first hour of any other day...

I have seen no empirical evidence that the positions of the heavenly bodies have any impact on our lives, so I wouldn't base a planetary hour system on that (no offense to anyone, just stating my opinion). I think there may indeed be seven "tints" to our experience, and that ancient people noticed incidentally that there are also seven planets and jumped to associated them, and that there is no real connection. I could be wrong though.

Also different systems used in P.Alchemy one for salt level workings, Sulphur and Mercury... too many to go by in Gotiec works, agree with ImperialArts in that its a way to align members to practising in specific time frames boosting the strength of practice. The author of the Abramelin has a laugh at the thought of using a system that isn't actual, use it in P.Alchemical workings but more to keep a ''devout'' mentality perhaps, followed it for quite some time in Ceremonial work then found it inconvenient, impossible to keep up with, have had results without it as well as with.

Also different systems used in P.Alchemy one for salt level workings, Sulphur and Mercury... too many to go by in Gotiec works, agree with ImperialArts in that its a way to align members to practising in specific time frames boosting the strength of practice. The author of the Abramelin has a laugh at the thought of using a system that isn't actual, use it in P.Alchemical workings but more to keep a ''devout'' mentality perhaps, followed it for quite some time in Ceremonial work then found it inconvenient, impossible to keep up with, have had results without it as well as with.

Yes, I also agree that the benefit is probably in the disciplined schedule it requires.

I just thought of something: one could do a statistical analysis of cases of suicide and determine if the act was committed disproportionately during, for example, Saturn hours. One could look at cases of homicide and see if they correlate with Mars hours, etc.