Proper Use Of Sigil Magik....? Options

Hi everyone,

Used to post on OF.com but their site isn't working again and this place seems nice. My name was Mchawi/Onyx Stone.

*Waves*

I'm, ''about'' to get into Sigil Magik even though I have been using a variant of it for a while (simply using photos and what not). Was wondering about the use of it in general. Most use it as a tool to bring things into their lives in one way or another so I was up last night reading Carlos Constenadas ''The Art of Dreaming'' and was hit by a series of electrical impulses leading to a thought...

Could i use Sigil Magik to learn how to Astral Travel?... To gain the ability?

Have been meaning to practice but as I smoke weed at night it tends to block my dreams, accompanied with bouts of lazyness I never seem to get around to having a real go at it. Is it feasable to use Sigil Magik to further my practice? Not sure how I'd word it but if a person can use it to bring a new girlfriend into their lives then why not use it to bring in abilities? Not stopping at Astral Travel the series of electrical impulses took me further into thought. I have been meaning to get to grips with the Yi-Ching... further my practice as a CM by learning how to meditate properly which requires a patience I sometimes don't have. The list goes on. Rather than use the art to bring in mundane things why not further oneself instead!? Programming/tuning the self as it were.

Am I just being a smart series of electronics or not? 8)

HTP

DK

This post has been edited by Dark Knight: Feb 2 2007, 12:44 PM

Ave

Yes, it's very possible to learn Astral Travel via Sigil Magick. Just make sure to include that you want to do it while you're sleeping in the statement of intent, and then either stick it under your pillow, or taped to the top of your clock, so it's the last thing you see at night and the first thing you see in the morning, and keep a dream journal, and you should be flying in no time. And yes the I-Ching too, and if you did them together, you'd probably be able to learn the I-Ching in the Astral while you sleep. The furthering of one's inner self is the main goal for most modern ceremonialists, and Sigil Magick is perfect for that goal.

P.S. Maybe a couple nights, don't do pot, to enhance the nervous effects of the sigil. Or, draw the sigil on the joint you smoke before bed, or if you use a piece, put the sigil on a small square of paper in with the herb, and be sure to acknowledge that you are charging and bringing the sigil within yourself for maximum effect.

Ad Scientiam

This post has been edited by Lucian: Feb 2 2007, 02:00 PM

Welcome to SM Dark Knight !!

Agreed with Lucian, sigil magick can certainly be used to help aquire or enhance abilities. I might not suggest starting a sigil-approached Astral Projection operation during sleep, I could see why it wouldn't work.

Personally, I suggest a "normal" start to sigil work, ie. create a sigil, charge/empower it with whatever free energy you have (niether-neither, undifferentiated, shock, exercise . . whatever) during gnosis/meditation, then let it go unthought of until your next charging. In different opportunities: meditate, relax, and start practicing AP (or whatever your intent is).
The problem with starting sigil magick (and particularly AP'ing) in your sleep is that at that point you've already slipped below the "conscious" threshold, therefore trying (initially) to accomplish a basicly conscious-controlled unconscious function without the benefit of the conscious state for the control mechinism (doea that make any sense).
The point is, its hard to not go completely to sleep when you go to sleep. It a fine method after you've established a bit of skill, but initially (at least I found) its just more difficult and more frustrating.

About the weed, yeah . . . I have the same problem with not being able to access my dreams as well, either for the purpose of remembering them or getting lucid
with them.
In general, weed can help with making the astral "visually" more potent (in really small doses), but equally it make maintaining mental control more difficult.
Fortunately I've been on a semi-longterm dry spell . . . so I've been able to do some work (and depth) that I'd been putting off. Lucian's got a good suggestion there . . . just give yourself a few days dry.... as a magickian, you do have that degree of controll over yourself . . . don't you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(this thread may be better in the Chaos forum, unless you really intend this to coordinate with a Ceremonial type path topic)

This post has been edited by palindroem: Feb 2 2007, 03:17 PM

Welcome to SM. By the way OF is back up and running. Hope you enjoy

Absolutely. Sigil work is most powerful in matters of WILL and SELF in my past experience. That doesn't meant sigils aren't effective beyond the self... they certainly are. But it's a short journey from "implanting" the sigil into your subconscious to controlling the SELF in matters of Astral. In fact, I'd say, it's the ideal way to get into sigil work.

The critical aspect of the work, though, is that you must perform the work as palindroem mentioned, while conscious. The goal is to focus on the intent (will), create with imagination (the sigil creation -- assuming you're creating your own) then achieving gnosis and implant the sigil (complete with the power of imagination and will) in the subconscious, which thrives in the astral. Once you've achieved this, you forget all about the sigil.

In my way of working sigils, anyway, it is important to entirely forget the sigil after you've achieved gnosis. You burn the sigil, flush it, don't place it under your pillow (which will remind you of it!)... rush to the TV, light up, play a video game, have sex, do anything to immediately FORGET the sigil, because the conscious mind has a knack of interfering with sigils. Too much contemplation and logic and visualizing (after the fact) will hamper a sigil's effectiveness.

That is unless you're actually working with talismans -- which you keep with you. A taslisman is another option for you. But a sigil you forget and destroy if it is to be effective. Here's how I define the difference... sigils are created by the creative and will and conscious mind, then migrated to the subconscious, then forgotten by the conscious mind (which can severely INTERFERE with the effectiveness of the sigil if it's constantly meditating on it. In fact, it rarely will work at all if you're thinking about it all the time.

On the other hand, in talismanic work, at least in my work, you don't forget it, (quite the opposite.) It's just semantics, probably, but sigils are generally migrated and forgotten, talismans and amulets have DUAL existence in the physical and the astral (but more substance in the astral) and are not forgotten -- they are empowered, charged, and constantly "remembered" to have effectiveness (but since the conscious mind is relatively weak, versus the subconscious, I find talismans relatively less effective -- that may just be me.

Happy journeys!

Thanks so much guys i have wanted to utilize sigils for a while now. Can this be utilized as a way to project? It would be awesome to project myself into a sigil of an archangel or other interesting sigils.

The problem with starting sigil magick (and particularly AP'ing) in your sleep is that at that point you've already slipped below the "conscious" threshold, therefore trying (initially) to accomplish a basicly conscious-controlled unconscious function without the benefit of the conscious state for the control mechinism (doea that make any sense).

Hmmm.... did give that a thought, might undo the sigil. Might be better to aid some part of the practice rather than to achive it completely.

The point is, its hard to not go completely to sleep when you go to sleep. It a fine method after you've established a bit of skill, but initially (at least I found) its just more difficult and more frustrating.

About the weed, yeah . . . I have the same problem with not being able to access my dreams as well, either for the purpose of remembering them or getting lucid with them.

In general, weed can help with making the astral "visually" more potent (in really small doses), but equally it make maintaining mental control more difficult.

Fortunately I've been on a semi-longterm dry spell . . . so I've been able to do some work (and depth) that I'd been putting off. Lucian's got a good suggestion there . . . just give yourself a few days dry.... as a magickian, you do have that degree of controll over yourself . . . don't you!

.lol. Read this one last night mulling over a spliff. You're right, thats exactly what it is, it makes the control so much harder that it can be impossible to put it all together the next morning, do like the loosening up effect that it has though and I've hit some serious states of mind whilst smoking after a nights ritual. Will give it a break to get to grips with my practice. Llike your meditative approach, have always tried it before falling asleep. Do you find it easier to AP/Lucid in your sleep now that you can meditate and travel? Can you recomend any techniques/books on the subject?

Welcome to SM. By the way OF is back up and running. Hope you enjoy

OF is cool but I like the age old text book feel to this site, think I'll stay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sun.gif)

implant the sigil (complete with the power of imagination and will) in the subconscious, which thrives in the astral. Once you've achieved this, you forget all about the sigil.

I think prehaps Mr PD is right, implanting a command in a place where you are set to go may be difficult... I'm not sure, first off I have no experience with Sigil Magik and secondaly I'm a bit slow today after a night of weed smoking and over thinking on matters trivial. Rituals were weak as well, normally good around this time of the month. Anyway, prehaps the sigil sits more on the gateway of the consiouss - subconsiouss mind its roots coming from the subconsiouss so encouraging the consiouss to AP won't be so much of a problem when a certain level of consioussness is reached, going past that a person would have to have effectively forgotten about the sigil so as to not visualise it or undo its effects in general.

Wouldn't mind if this is moved to the Chaos room, its up to you. This isn't just about using sigils to AP there are other things a person can use the art to programme themselves to do. Seeing as we have a whole host of abilities dormant within us it only makes sence to use the practice to unlock those abilities and open those doors as we are in magik but backed up by things such as sigil work and tailsmans.

Going to try and AP through meditation rather than in my sleep sounds more like an easing, controlled process rather than turning out the lights and hoping for the best after a days work .lol. Will be back on soon. The text is really small when posting for some reason.

Thansk for the replies!

HTP

DK

This post has been edited by Dark Knight: Feb 4 2007, 03:00 PM

Do you find it easier to AP/Lucid in your sleep now that you can meditate and travel? Can you recomend any techniques/books on the subject?

easier . . no, not really lol. just more controlled (and easier to remember)
I tend to differentiate between aethric projection and astral projection . . . but thats just me. Personally, I like Bruce's (Astral Dynamics) use of tactile awareness. As mentioned, I tend toward aetheric projection . . . which can lead into an astral journey too. So I spend a fair amount of work on being in the here-and-now during my projection. Its probably a more difficult work, but I think the overall value is more favorable for what I usually want to accomplish.

I think prehaps Mr PD is right, implanting a command in a place where you are set to go may be difficult... I'm not sure, first off I have no experience with Sigil Magik and secondaly I'm a bit slow today after a night of weed smoking and over thinking on matters trivial. Rituals were weak as well, normally good around this time of the month. Anyway, prehaps the sigil sits more on the gateway of the consiouss - subconsiouss mind its roots coming from the subconsiouss so encouraging the consiouss to AP won't be so much of a problem when a certain level of consioussness is reached, going past that a person would have to have effectively forgotten about the sigil so as to not visualise it or undo its effects in general.

well, you might be right about where in the mental spectrum a sigil seats itself. Jung was of an opinion that at that conscious-subconsious threshold was one's Anima. I'm of a similar opinion. She's the one that speaks the communication between the two. She's probably where a sigil is recieved.
(typically this spirit for men is a female (anima) and for women a male (animus) . . . and can easily be a conception of a persons divine guinus or "higher self" . . . though with a jungian shadow to deal with too)

Wouldn't mind if this is moved to the Chaos room, its up to you. This isn't just about using sigils to AP there are other things a person can use the art to programme themselves to do. Seeing as we have a whole host of abilities dormant within us it only makes sence to use the practice to unlock those abilities and open those doors as we are in magik but backed up by things such as sigil work and tailsmans.

true, but I'm not seeing anything particularly ceremonial (or even ritual oriented) about this thread yet. For the moment I'll just see what develops . . . but its looking likely to generate greater interest in another forum.

Going to try and AP through meditation rather than in my sleep sounds more like an easing, controlled process rather than turning out the lights and hoping for the best after a days work .lol. Will be back on soon. The text is really small when posting for some reason.

Good, go do it. J
ust as a note, it took me almost two months of regular body-energy work (tactile awareness'ish), AP developmental work, and sigils in place before I got anything I could call minimally "verifiable" results. Don't be impatient . . . rushing actually makes it take longer (its the crisis or choke effect).
And, its all imaginative (at least for the longest beginning part) . . . don't let that through you off.

-pali

This post has been edited by palindroem: Feb 5 2007, 06:57 AM

easier . . no, not really lol. just more controlled (and easier to remember)
I tend to differentiate between aethric projection and astral projection . . . but thats just me. Personally, I like Bruce's (Astral Dynamics) use of tactile awareness. As mentioned, I tend toward aetheric projection . . . which can lead into an astral journey too. So I spend a fair amount of work on being in the here-and-now during my projection. Its probably a more difficult work, but I think the overall value is more favorable for what I usually want to accomplish.

Got his books. Ethric projection is definately better than Astral, you can always go deeper and go into the Astral I guess. Would've thought with all your practice it'd make it easier to Astral in general.

. . . though with a jungian shadow to deal with too)

Haven't had the time/money to get into Jung. Whats the shadow? Is it Bruces theory on the body attempting to leave the physical and looking back on itself thus creating a shadow that a traveller can find themselves afraid of?

true, but I'm not seeing anything particularly ceremonial (or even ritual oriented) about this thread yet. For the moment I'll just see what develops . . . but its looking likely to generate greater interest in another forum.
Good, go do it. Just as a note, it took me almost two months of regular body-energy work (tactile awareness'ish), AP developmental work, and sigils in place before I got anything I could call minimally "verifiable" results. Don't be impatient . . . rushing actually makes it take longer (its the crisis or choke effect).
And, its all imaginative (at least for the longest beginning part) . . . don't let that through you off.

-pali

Regular body energy work... aren't you a CM?

Personally I've made my daily practice in CM my regular body work... if by that you mean being aware of diffrent parts of the body and astral cleansing that is. I mean its the same as vibrating mantras and feeling the vibration in specific parts of the body. I'm using the middle pillar and circulation of light in place of Bruces cleansing of the astral body and other reccomended visualisations.

Carlos Constenadas, ''The Art of Dreaming'' is brilliant, do prefer an eastern outlook at times.

Plz feel free to move this where you think its best. Have to get my email notifications working.

HTP

Got his books. Ethric projection is definately better than Astral, you can always go deeper and go into the Astral I guess. Would've thought with all your practice it'd make it easier to Astral in general.

Haven't had the time/money to get into Jung. Whats the shadow? Is it Bruces theory on the body attempting to leave the physical and looking back on itself thus creating a shadow that a traveller can find themselves afraid of?

Regular body energy work... aren't you a CM?


HTP

I assume it may, but I've put enough in staying in the aetheric that "letting myself go" and slip into the astral is difficult. I tend to do it in an entirely differnt session.
Bruce doesn't really work much on developing aetheric operation. Mostly just pass through it to get on to the "larger" astral. I'm not faulting it . . . I've just spent a bunch of time clarifying and nailing down myself in my aetheric environment. I find most of the thing I actually need to do, I can from an aetheric presence . . . but thats just me.
In a nutshell, the Shadow would be the "negative" reflection of the anima (not point for point tho). Where the Anima is one's (assuming your male) hidden femine power-source . . . the shadow is one's repressed pathologies (personifiable). (this is a really poor explaination) I don't think its the same thing Bruce is talking about, which is more of an isolated fear projection. Although, there may be some second-hand relationship . . . hadn't really considered it . . . but I might now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Umm . . . I'm CM enough . . but not CM enough to explore, adapt, and discard/retain whatever works, CM or other.


(sorry it took so long to reply . . . school, sigh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

Have been using the PoD as Nero posted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/banana.gif)