The underworld, no not hell Options

Its more of a magical farie world. You find doors on the ground when meditating out of body and open them... yeah anyone do this?

Greetings. I agree that the underworld is not likely to be 'hell'. I enter the underworld realms in various ways, and yes ... I agree it appears like a magical Faerie realm. The inhabitants encountered are essentially NOT human and have alien purposes seperate to our own. I have been lucky in gaining entry to their realms often without permission. But I 'blessed' with contact with a number of faerie entities who often come to my rescue when wandering through into forbidden areas of their realms.

I find that there are many ex-human souls in places I have ventured too. I understand too that there are areas of this otherworld which could have been associated with the christian dogma which created the concept of hell.

A race of faerie entities often depict themselves as requiring heat as they are cold blooded, reptilean even ... they seem to exist in the ancestral memory ... and the underworld caverns I spy them in (Hades across the Styx!) has fires and rivers of lava. The beings are horned and lizard like and are daemons which is a faction of the ancient Sidhe races. However, they are not evil or black magic or the devil. The fires are to keep them warm for the above reason.

But I must stress this is my own perception and understanding; something which may not agree with others. I do believe these entities represent the original inhabitants of this planet before ever mankind came along. I believe they were forced from the surface of this world by the rising human populations and their cullings through fear. They thus would lurk where volcanic activity existed for warmth and for protection. Around these I believe the myths of hell formed as sometimes humans have strayed into their caverns and have been culled themselves as the daemons saw them as a threat. It may often have been convenient to dump unwanted unfortunate souls in these places to get rid of them. Over time sacrificing souls would have developed as a way of trying to keep these daemon at bay.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wizard.gif) My opinion anyway.

I often used to venture to the Vale Of Avalon around Glastonbury Tor ... that is the Avalon on the 4th dimension, and yes ... it is a Faerie realm ... the Sidhe ... a race of part human/non-human ... it is hard to say. But beneath Glastonbury Tor is believed to exist a huge Sidhe city known as Caer Sidhe or Glastonia (the crystal or glass city) .... I have ventured to these ruins in OBE situations.

I often make my way into the underworld by way of a barrier of billowing white mist ... or through a stream or by direct projection.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

What I see is normally a forest, the first time you go there a guied walks you around usually your ancestory is there; mine being the black foot indian I was taken there right away and was given a staff. I was hung there by nails on my back and went through some emotional pain while doing so. That was my "initieation" I am now a blackfoot shamen warrior the white wolf is my totem animal. My guied still tells me not to speak of the evil in the place because it would draw the attention of the 'evil.' The forest is full of what we now know as elves and gnomes, I'm guessing thats where we got it from. Its really odd to see a yard gnome type ordeal running around and makes you question your sanity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Greetings

Lets hope you don't have to go through a Shaman initiation period on the manifest pain. Mine was twenty five year of absolute agony and despair with three suicide attempts.

My metaphysical initiation took place on a rocky plateau with a cascading waterfall behind me. I was tied between two horses; the two horses pulled apart before I was whipped to within inches of death then pulled along the ground; tied to one of the horses through a twisting and turning landscape until I came upon a clearing. There I met with the high priestess of their tribe ... I was then fire branded ... and given the title of Shaman and visionary.

At the time it was an extremely lucid OBE. Around twelve months after the 'initiation' my life fell apart and I now am shaman and visionary on earth. But rarely to I broadcast the title or the experiences ...

The blue wolf is a sidhe companion who assists me in my communions and trysts in the underworld.


I am reluctant to recommend souls wander the underworld unguided. The pitfalls are major psychological and sub-conscious changes which ALWAYS manifest on the earth plane bringing periods of great imbalance/hardship and change.

Through the extremes in my life I have balanced only to be unbalanced again. I can call myself melchisidek or walker between the worlds ... a shaman in another sense of the world as I can wander into the underworld. To be able to do this you must first find your soul.

It is a tortous path as many of the roles/tasks/journeys for others involve wandering BEYOND death. Constant is the pull of the world of spirit. It would be too easy if I was weak to go with the pull and NEVER return. On several occasions I have succumbed and tried suicide.

To be a TRUE white wolf you can have NO bindings; no partner; no family or ties; no fear of death; no inhibitions or preconceptions. Any fear or misconception in your sub-conscious will ALWAYS manifest itself in the underworld ... for the underworld is a reflection of this world. Any hang ups appear and must be faced and passed before venturing through.

You must be pure of mind and in TOTAL control of mind and emotions to wander. Any impurity will bring guardians and sentinels to oppose you. Any dangerous misconceptions will prevent your access to areas of the underworld. Dangerous misconceptions WILL lead you to the land of shade. Only the most powerful magi can return from here unscathed .... fearsome and alien entities can potentially follow into this world and cause total havoc as they will latch themselves undetected in your consciousness .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/black eye.gif) (here spoke the voice of experience) .... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/5.gif)

This post has been edited by Mr_Merlin: Mar 8 2006, 09:26 PM

Yes, I do follow the catagory of a white wolf. I do not care about anyone, and its quite sad death is no big deal eather, its going to happen no matter what, I really don't see the big deal. Mine had to do with my parents, and me making the ultimate decesion of staying or leaving the house.

Its more of a magical farie world. You find doors on the ground when meditating out of body and open them... yeah anyone do this?

Yes I have been to the Magical Realms . Franz Bardon writes about visiting fae as air elementals in his IIH . I find though that there is also a system of 'hells '. I believe that the lower planes consist of physical , lower astral , totemic , higher hell , lower hells , magical realm .I feel that it is more like geoconcentric layers of realms around the earthly plane not flat planes so that if we go low enough we exit into the Magical Realms you describe . But the fae also exist on earth and may be found in meditative trance as a mystic by projecting consciousness into the clouds or a sylvan forest . FB describes morphing as a fae first . This is great fun . Our experiences in elemental realms have been posted online at Astral Society in the Journal section under my handle Aunt Clair .

Aunt Clair - so, is there any "underworld" according to your cosmology?

i.e. is there any plane "beneath" the physical?

Or is the physical plane the lowest of the planes?

Aunt Clair - so, is there any "underworld" according to your cosmology?
i.e. is there any plane "beneath" the physical? Or is the physical plane the lowest of the planes?

I feel that 1 is ascribed traditionally by metaphysical authors and mystics as being the physical plane .I attempted in my own mapping to integrate the teachings of many dead mystics ,notably Robert Monroe , Franz Bardon , Dr. Joshua David Stone , Alice Bailey and Blavatsky , with my own understanding. I continue to work in an alchemy circle to tour the realms as a mystic with peers . This is the best cosmology I have at this date ;

000 Magical Realm
00 Lower Hells
0 Higher Hell
1 Lower Plane of Chaos and “Hell on Earth ”
2 Totemic Earth Wisdom
3 Physical Focus 3: increased mental coherency and balance
4 Astral Lower Focus 10: Mind Awake/Body Asleep
5 Monadic- work with guides , mahatma , chohans and archangels
--Astral Hall of Learning – Spiritual King’s Chamber over Luxor
- Focus 12: A state of expanded awareness
6 Golden Chamber of Melchiezedek
7 Logoic -Shamballah --Temples of Light RHP
---Ashrams of Chohans Great Pyramid RHP
8 Group Monadic Soul - Meeting Higher Self RHP
--Temple of Zodiac and Great Clock in Shamballah RHP
--Focus 15: State of no time
--Temple of the Dragons -subset of Universal Mind LHP
9 Blue Lodge of what is called the Arcturians of Sirius
---Sentient Being Ashrams from other universes
---Called the Pleaides lies on a trajectory off that star group in Taurus
---Called Sirius lies on a trajectory off this star
Focus 21: The edge of time/space - contact other energy systems.
10 Plane of Elementals , Devas ,Thrones , the Vortex , Elohim Council
---Human Manifestations ie ashrams of live humans
11Window on Edge of Universe
---Entrance to Hells for Students of the Occult
----Plane of Heavens Focus 24,25,26: Belief Territories of Afterlifers---Human and Spirit cooperative Manifestations of Metaphysical Colleges
---Temples of Wisdom
---Gates of Death Focus 23: "stuck" confused unaware ghosts
12Universal Mind Focus 34-35 is the locale having group consciousness
---Devic Chambers
---Human made spirit homes Focus 27: Afterlife free will resembling earth
---Ashrams of other worlds ie Reptilians beyond the trajectory of Ursa Major
13The Other side of the Cone of Consciousness
----Operation of Ley Lines of Infinity on the Grids
---Tunnels of Eternity
---Om Shallah the realm of Living Sound and the Crown of Shallah
14 Middle Bands of Streaming Consciousness on the Middle or Central Path

is there any "underworld" according to your cosmology?

i.e. is there any plane "beneath" the physical?

Or is the physical plane the lowest of the planes?

From my own experiences I am aware there is a realm beneath the physical and there is also a realm within the physical .... the latter being perhaps a parallel realm of a realm which shares the same space as the physical.

In truth, all things appear to be possible. It is down to the magician's own belief system as to the existence of an underworld .... as for the 14 planes so kindly reproduced by Aunt Clair I have no recollection or experience of them (not in that format anyway)....I've read of these places before, but in my own travels to the realms no entity has ever stated 'you are in realm 9 which is the blue lodge etc etc ....

The realms just ARE. They exist out there as we exist here. They are as real and they can be visited. I've found when I enter one such realm this current physical vehicle is left behind and I am within another vehicle which matches the vibration of the different realm.

I am very well aware of the Underworld ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/1238.gif) ... it has been visited by myself many many times since I was a child .... however I find the experiences of the underworld are varied with numerous entities to meet and numerous places to visit. Rarely, however, has an entity proclaimed 'this is the Underworld' .... to determine implicitly you have entered the underworld it is best to make passage through an established entry point which is traditionally linked with being a doorway to the Underworld.

The best place for such (for me anyway) is Glastonbury Tor .... hundreds of visits there in the last three decades have brought me to the Underworld ... and interplay with traditional little people, faeries and the like .... but the danger here is that the appearance of such beings are governed/generated by my own mind and by the archetypal programming of the human race!!!

An entity doesn't have to appear Faerie-like to be Faerie .... there are instances I've met with Faerie folk over here in New Zealand and the being has appeared human!!

Another good place is Pirongia Mountain here in New Zealand!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/victory.gif)

This post has been edited by Mr_Merlin: Mar 8 2006, 09:42 PM

Thanks for the responses.

**********

If I were to craft a quick and simple little cosmology incorporating The Underworld, it would go something like this:

The Overworld: The realm of intuitive daemons.

The Midworld: The realm between Overworld and Underworld where spirits incarnating bodies (that have intuition and instinct) endeavor both to harmonize together their intuitions and instincts - and to relate with one another together in compounded interpersonal harmony based upon daemonic dynamics. The Midworld is the level within which your physical body is reading these words. Midworld Mages can intensify the harmony of their character, and the harmony of their relationships, by consciously working with daemons from Overworld and Underworld.

The Underworld: The realm of instinctive daemons.

Hello Mr. Merlin and thanks for the reply .

It is down to the magician's own belief system as to the existence of an underworld

I think it is more a matter of the expansiveness of the consciousness and the clairvoyant sight of the mystic .
Personally , I believe that only the astral is subject to belief systems and projectionist manifestations . I believe that all other spirit realms exist as created by the Godhead . I feel that the ancient realms are constant and eternal and that newer ones are created as the spirit realm expands .

.... as for the 14 planes so kindly reproduced by Aunt Clair

I have integrated my own mystic experience which is corroborated by peers in alchemical circle with the existing scaffolding of Robert Monroe , Alice Bailey , Helena Blavatsky , Dr. Joshua David Stone , Franz Bardon et al . Our Alchemy circle has visited all of these realms listed and we went beyond all of the traditional frameworks by these deceased metaphysical mystics and authors listed above .

.I have no recollection or experience of them

The higher planes are not as readily accessible and require the projection of consciousness beyond the astral and physical .

.I've read of these places before, but in my own travels to the realms no entity has ever stated 'you are in realm 9 which is the blue lodge etc etc ....

The focus levels are derived by Robert Monroe an internationally famous and esteemed metaphysical author who managed to project to focus level 27 before his death . His institutes in VA , USA continue this research . The numbers of the planes are derived from the channeling of Djwahl Kuhl and corroborated by Dr. Stone . As for the plane number 9 this is well established as the plane of sentient being ashrams and referred to by the above authors for decades now .

.I am very well aware of the Underworld ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/1238.gif) ... it has been visited by myself many many times since I was a child .... however I find the experiences of the underworld are varied with numerous entities to meet ....

Have you met gray guardians , demons and spirits of the deceased or death angels ? These are the entities in the lower planes called 'hells' . The elementals of the air can be met on earth plane and elsewhere though meditative trance and projection of consciousness and through clairvoyance of RTZ . The realms below the earthly plane are of a lower vibration and do have a system of 'hells' which are of no particular religious belief system . There is a lower magical realm outside of this but that is reached by passing through the tunnels of Seth and the qlippoth and back out again .

I met leprechauns in a faerie ring on an island at Glendalough , Ireland . I have also gone with mates to the Leprechaun realm of the elemental plane as described in our alchemy circle journal on Astral Society . Franz Bardon describes a method to meet all elementals ie Sylphs and Undines in Initiation into Hermetics .http://www.asiya.org/elementals.html . I feel that elementals are all around us and easy to see if one will develop clairvoyance and clairsentience . I believe all humans can learn these skills .

This post has been edited by Aunt Clair: Mar 9 2006, 03:23 AM

Mr Merlin wrote:

It is down to the magician's own belief system as to the existence of an underworld ....

I agree with this.

Cosmologies involving different dimensions, planes, spheres, aethyrs, etc... seem to me to be like different floorplans for houses. Some floorplans have basements, and some do not. Some have different numbers of stories, and some do not. Even amongst floorplans that similarly have the same number of levels, distinct variations can exist regarding the rooms, offices, suites, etc.. - as well as distinct variations regarding the function of, and whatever is established as happeing in those levels.

Some people who live in one kind of house might have difficulty comprehending that other styles of houses, involving different kinds of floorplans, exist.

However, there are some basic aspects of cosmologies that I suspect many can agree upon:

One basic aspect is that each cosmology is very real to those who use them.

Another basic aspect is that what matters most is not conformity to one style of cookie cutter cosmic home design - but instead is comprehending what the function of, and what happens in, various home designs. By working to clarify what happens on a specific level in any of our floorplans for each other, we can come to some comprehension regarding how each of us considers and engages events in our respective cosmologies. We might not be able to square it all up with each other's comprehension, but we certainly can receive some insight about how others map out their experiential territory.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Mar 9 2006, 07:29 AM

Greetings!

I've freely wandered 'the other realms' since I was a child of 5 and after various meetings with numerous non-human entities I've come to the conclusion that much of the places & beings met are created by 'mind' and 'belief system'. Having well over three decades experience of these places and beings, I come to conclusions which are in direct contrary to what most perceive. I have been known to have wandered so deeply that four days of human time had passed since I began the meditation.

I tend to journey to places 'to meet and see' and then wait for physical confirmation to come to me. I rarely research and then journey because I find this tends to pre-empt what is met with or where you visit too.

I have come to one powerful conclusion ... it is your own mind and your own belief system which shapes what you meet or where you venture to.

I admit my own findings contradict your own viewpoint .. however I do not intend to contradict what you have written here. If what you discern works for you then it is indeed correct! Similarly what my extensive travels have revealed to me ... works perfectly for me. What I have found is that an individuals perceptions may work for them perfectly, but they won't necessarily work for another individual.

In your reality, you may believe that 'only the astral is subject to belief systems and projectionist manifestations . I believe that all other spirit realms exist as created by the Godhead . I feel that the ancient realms are constant and eternal and that newer ones are created as the spirit realm expands' ... I accept that as it being your right. I discerned similar once ... indeed until fairly recently ... but I find it difficult to perceive in this way now. I view our reality as illusory ... a dream state ... a state in which our minds bend our reality into a perception we can accept. As in any dream all is real to the individual .... this perception stretches far into the higher vibrations. I have been mediumistic for the best part of 35 years and have extensive contacts with ex-humans in what we perceive as the spirit world ... from many of these contacts I have deduced the dream state reality continues beyond what we humans can perceive.

I've had a number of contacts from 'beyond the spirit world' (the only way to describe it) ... and I can only conclude the dream state reality extends to that distance too. All seems to be illusions within illusions ... dreams within dreams. Consciousness appears to have free reign creating 'realities' 'dimensions' and if sufficient individual consciousnesses perceive the same dimension then that dimension becomes real to all who visit it. It is shaped by the thoughts of those who visit it. Creating 'archetypal dimensions' like those listed above ... is like creating dimensions to order like a cook book. They have become a reality to those who perceive it.

I am more or less self taught/other realm taught with my perceptions ... I was taken around the dimensions as a five year old by a white haired entity (the events are well documented elsewhere in threads here) ... and I perceive that when you visit a realm or dimension you accept it is real at the time you visit it ... much like our existence here.

I am strong in the belief these days ... after thirty years of theorising and researching and high magic circles and guided meditations ... that we are in a dream state for sure. We have forgotten we are dreaming, that we perceive the dream as reality. In doing this we have forgotten our true dimension. It's a little like the whirlpool or eddy in a river which forgets it is part of the river.

Of that true reality I know very little. Except that we may possibly be the same as we are here. With all experiences here genetic memories of our true dimension. I digress from the underworld, I apologise ... but it is from ventures to many levels of the underworld etc that these concepts come. Everything in existence is holographic. Therefore in all pieces of the hologram entire copies of the hologram can be found. I find my answers in my own perceived version of the underworld. However, my version may differ from yours. But because it does, that does not diminish it from being as real and correct as yours.

As far as my underworld goes ... I know it contains the holographic blue print of all things. I figure thus that human existence may be as straight forward as us being genetic codings within a genetic computer. We may have once visited this 'living library' as a way of a history lesson. Somewhere along the way, we forgot this process and became trapped within its cyberspace halls.

This may or may not make sense to you. But to me, in my reality, it makes perfect sense and explains the last thirty five years of my life perfectly. My understanding of the underworld, and experiences therein. are the same .... they are exactly suited to myself in my reality. I've never had great need for extensive research on the subject. I've merely closed my eyes in various places, brought on alpha state and then ventured to the realms of my choosing thereafter.

My viewpoint and your viewpoint are important as two opinions of two different realities .... both correct for the factors shaping the reality they correspond to!

I very rarely practice 'channelling' having the ability to venture dimensionally ... but the information I receive paints a different picture to much of the 'recognised literature' available in the new age circuit. This doesn't mean I dismiss either the published works or that of my own. I merely compare the two .... it has been my choice not to publish my own channellings. I have extensive workings which amount to tens of thousands of pages. Much amounting to personal diaries of places I have ventured too and entities I have met.

I have recently started my own 'pathworking' group after twenty years of deliberation. My 'companions' are already visiting many of the dimensionsal realms including levels of the underworld .... and are finding them as real with similar descriptions as I have perceived them.

From this and other research I can only come to the conclusion that there are infinite possibilities when it comes to realms and dimensions. It is down to an individual's belief as to how these realms appear. As for our true dimension ... our home dimension ... it is truly difficult to describe how it appears ... for as yet I have not met with an entity who has found a dimension which is not an illusion; nor have I met with a mortal individual who has met with one either. It appears to be extremely difficult to break out of the dream state illusion of the genetic computer which encompasses all levels of the 'known after life'... the true dimension appears to be a level far and above what we know as the after life.

This post has been edited by Mr_Merlin: Mar 10 2006, 03:30 AM

I also agree its all down to one's own beliefs. I personally find that simplicity helps greatly in understanding the seemingly infanite dimentions of the ethers. The brake down of the realms goes as follows:
1. The Greater Ethers
2. The Upper Ethers
3. The Middle Ethers
4. The Lower Ethers
5. The Infernal Ethers

What seems consistant to me is that each realm seems to follow its own laws governing chaos vs. order. The greater ethers have the most order and least chaos while the infernal are the oposite. What makes the greater realms seem "heavenly" is the "purity" of the physical laws governing these. While the infernal realms seem "hellish" because of the lack of "purity" in the physical laws governing these realms where "purity" in any of these realms equals the consistancy of the physical laws being true. In places that are chaotic, very little is actually consistant to my personal perception and thus, to me, not true. Because of the level of chaos in the lower ethers its easy for me to percieve these realms as hellish in nature. You can't go to these realms expecting to find "truths" only chaos, change, destruction - great for breaking down personal blockages and habbits as well as finding "infernal" entities that can preform a variety of tasks depending on the complexity of their nature. Inversly I find the upper ethers are increbibly consistant and so vivid to my personal senses (say a city wall stays a city wall and doesn't mutate into some giant wurm). Its easy to find tranquility in these realms because they are purely consistant in how they behave. Thus these realms are good for meditation, healing, learning higher philosophies and abtaining contact with entities living in these realms. I have also found, for me, that I can not sustane a "peaceful" existance on any realm in one extreme or the other. The middle realms is where I find the most freedom. Things are not so orderly that I must obey everything and be utterly humble, but things aren't so chaotic that I have to live in fear of what random event I might encounter. So it is here in the middle that I find myself constructing places on the astral that connect to my dreams and allow my consciousness access to these realms. The middle ethers act kind of like a go between zone and the portals I create in my dreams take to this place, but the portals I create in this place take me to any of the extremes of the realms of chaos or order.

Then I have a whole set of gates in my dreams that take me to my own inner realms, rather than those on the astral. So of which do act as "back doors" to astral places. I think the moral of story is that while simplicity is a desirable start as one avdances things can only get more complex. But as one's awareness and experience grows, the greater complexity they can handle. It took me years to get where I am now.

ps: All the places I have visited during a lucid dream or AP have been sacred to me.