Cobol Dangerous?, ...possibility of developing the Kundalini Syndrome? Options

OK, so that's what concerns me - I added Circulation of the Body of Light to my daily ritual work more than a month ago. Since then I've been wondering if I'm doing it right and if I'm not hurting myself. Why? When I perform the Ritual of the Middle Pillar, the energy (the light) descends only a bit reluctantly while it ASCENDS (during the ending part of CoboL) very reluctantly. I used to kinda force it up - which reminds me of the warnings that any work Kundalini raising should not be performed unsupervised or too early.

Okay, a short pause for some side notes. 1.) yes, I do realize that exercises from different traditions shouldn't be compared, but we do have only one energetic system, no matter what path (if any) we follow; 2.) I found two version of the ending part of CoBoL. I use the one that resembles Kundalini raising (just a pillar of brilliant white light ascending, of course starting from Malkuth, the feet rather than just from the root chakra) because I simply can't synchronize 'the Mummy' version with my breathing, as wrapping in energy takes me too long, making me pump myself with unnatural amounts of air (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Right, here we go again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Isn't forcing the energy harmful? Isn't there a possibility of developing the Kundalini syndrome with the practice of CoBoL? Yeah, I now it would be best to have a teacher, but I don't think it's possible while I live here. I was thinking about abandoning this exercise for some time but some idea occurred to me... Maybe I was forcing the energy because I was moving it TOO consciously? What I mean is, I practice New Energy Ways by Robert Bruce. It teaches how one can easily feel and manipulate the energy in one's energetic body. So... I realized I'd been subconsciously using some of N.E.W. techniques while doing CoBoL and I was possibly too efficient with it. Now, I concentrate on NOT using those techniques and I try to merely visualize everything. The light ascends more freely but I'm afraid the efficiency of the whole exercise is lower now as I don't feel the energy moving, don't feel dizzy as I used to feel during and after CoBoL etc.

What do you think and what would you recommend?

Greetings Iampagan!
I'm going on my first impressions here...but, slow it down! You are really pushing things, In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), too fast.
You are mixing and blending a number of different systems here. If you were to work each of them separately you would notice the subtle variations of results.

2.) I found two version of the ending part of CoBoL. I use the one that resembles Kundalini raising (just a pillar of brilliant white light ascending, of course starting from Malkuth, the feet rather than just from the root chakra) because I simply can't synchronize 'the Mummy' version with my breathing, as wrapping in energy takes me too long, making me pump myself with unnatural amounts of air

You're not breathing properly. Hyperventilating is not what you want to do! It will produce symptoms as you describe and accomplish little toward your intended goal. Pranayama isn't something that is mastered overnight. Some spend their entire lifetime perfecting it.

Forcing anything energetically can be potentially harmful. Not that it is in this case but you may take the time to meditate on the why and how of the energy flow of your body. I am not an expert, by any means, of energy circulation. It appears to me that you are rushing things. I would suggest that you find a system of energy exercise and stick to it, leaving the others for awhile until you have mastered the first. It is frustrating when you are all worked up to GO but improvising and synthesizing energy working systems should be taken slowly, adapting various practices with your own bodies needs and functionality. So much for the canned speech. Conclusion: slow down. Meditate on your energy centers and discover any blockages you may have. Try to resist the temptation to combine various systems until you are aware of what each one does. Know thyself.

This may or may not have been helpful. I'm sure that someone else will add their perspective and I urge you to take the time to consider your options. Good journey! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The major difference between the MP ritual including the CBL, and Kundalini work that is least taken into account is the physical aspect of the energetic movements - MP moves down through the spiritual core of the being, Kundalini moves up through the central canal of the spine. Kundalini is the nervous energy locked in the nerve plexii of the sacroiliac area. /Sacrum/Coccyx. So, there is no danger of activating kundalini inadvertently through 'improper' practice of the MP ritual (I consider CBL to be a part of the MP ritual.) So, there is no comparison to be made - they are different practices, affecting different parts of the being all together. There may only be one energy system, but it has many layers - some say an infinite number - and most cultures interpret and separate them differently.

An important note, as Kundalini has been a hot topic of discussion lately it seems, and I have seen lots of practices dealing with it - Kundalini is a psychophysical phenomenon. It deals with the excitation of latent bioenergetic nervous potential rising up the physical nerves of the spine and into the physical brain. Even in yogic practice it is said that Raja Yoga (yoga of the mind) is the greatest yoga, and the longest yoga. You'd have to be a hermit to be affecting your kundalini in any way with your mind alone - which these practices are - because you'd have to be actually affecting your nervous system with only your mind. The most efficient kundalini practice involves Hatha, Jnana, Raja, and Pranayama yogas. ('Kundalini Yoga' which is a western concoction, is a combination of these other four practices). You cannot accidently awaken your kundalini doing any kind of other esoteric practice, unless you're trying to do it on purpose - and in that case doing enough of anything 'to awaken your kundalini' will actualize that intention and make it happen; and that's when you run into problems. But like I said, you have to hermit yourself away in a cave and live it, breathe it, become it, in order to do it with your mind alone.

Now, as far as forcing energy goes, it's okay to force the energy during the MP ritual. This is because the ritual is suppose to clarify and fortify your body of light, or rather, the energetic body that will become your body of light one day. If you have trouble getting the energy to move, then you have blockages. Plow through them, there is no danger there. It will get easier over time. You may have some emotional turbulence while beginning and pursuing these practices. You'll find that you'll have a sort of emotional roller coaster in your life for a short period, as well as some periodic mental vacuity or overactiveness - again, a roller coaster ride - and then gradually everything will settle and you're emotional and mental planes will be far more stable than they were before. This is your energetic body - the etheric, emotional, and mental layers in any case - clearing blockages, opening channels, and circulating energy more clearly. When they are fortified, and your condition develops 'structural integrity' as it were, you astral body will begin to benefit as well, and this is when you'll begin to notice the other benefits of this practice.

Hope this helps.

peace

Thanks for the reply and for the advice, bym. I'm not quite sure, though, if I fully understand it. Let me ask for details.

You are mixing and blending a number of different systems here. (...) Try to resist the temptation to combine various systems until you are aware of what each one does.

OK, I understand that this unvoluntary 'blending' - using so different techniques in the same time - was wrong. And I think managed to eliminate it. But, if I get it right, you mean that even performing exercises from various systems one after another or with some longer interval is still not so good - which is something I do not understand. Why is that so?

You're not breathing properly. [while performing "the Mummy" CoBoL ending] Hyperventilating is not what you want to do! It will produce symptoms as you describe and accomplish little toward your intended goal. Pranayama isn't something that is mastered overnight. Some spend their entire lifetime perfecting it.

It's another thing that needs explaining. So how should I perform this? I guess it doesn't require lifetime's practice - otherwise Kraig wouldn't put it in chapter three (each chapter - or 'lesson' - is supposed to be exercised for one month...). Should I make my air intake much slower or practice to speed up the wrapping process? Well, besides... I've always had problems with avoiding hyperventilation while using any techniques involving moving the energy in the body. I believe breath and the flow of the energy have some kind of connection...?

I'm going on my first impressions here...but, slow it down! You are really pushing things, In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), too fast.

Hmm, I'm afraid you're right. I think I won't have enough time to include anything else in my day plan (no meditations, LRH or anything...) especially now that the academic years is about to start (1st October). The thing is I want to accomplish various things that require various skills. I want some general magickal development, so I follow Kraig's Modern Magick (LBRP+MP+CoBoL and tuning to elements), have a strong desire to perform evocations in the future (Konstantinos and his Summoning Spirits exercises, mere visualizations right now but later there's going to be scrying etc.) and also wish to be capable of astral projection in the next several months (and here goes Robert Bruce and this New Energy Ways system that I'd written about).
Bym, you were once a beginner and you surely understand my enthusiasm - and you can also guess how confused I am about which points to drop if all of them can bring me so wonderful results... OK, you can call me impatient. Sure, probably I am impatient, but on the other hand this amount of work gives me strength and confidence. Confidence that if I work that hard I'm going to accomplish at least one of those things within 1-1,5 years, because that is my 'patience time', so to say. What I mean is I don't think I could go on like this much longer if I don't get any results - and I don't want this effort to be wasted. And why does it give me strength? Because I feel I finally gave up 'magickal laziness' - I'd been dabbling for 5 long years (trying everything out without sticking to one system/technique longer than a month) and now I practice every day.

Oh, and besides...

Meditate on your energy centers and discover any blockages you may have.

NEW gives me that, I believe. It makes aware of blockages and, generally, energy flowing within my body, for instance while MP I can feel Malkuth quite well now that I've finished exercises with feet. So I guess I cover this point...
But sure I could use a somewhat more... relaxed and 'mindful' approach.
Your post made me rethink some matters but also made me a bit confused, to tell you the truth... as I partly lost the confidence in what I'm doing...

EDIT:

Vagrant Dreamer, you replied in the meantime so I'll just edit my post. Tthanks to you too. Especially for reassuring me that everything's fine. Hmm, you seem to have a different approach and different suggestions (no forcing vs. force it 'till it squeals (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)). What I meant was Kundalini syndrome which is a broad concept (you call it in English an 'umbrella term', don't you?) and doesn't really have to do anything with Kundalini itself. "This psychosomatic arousal and excitation is believed to occur in connection with prolonged, intensive spiritual or contemplative practice, such as meditation or yoga, or a near-death experience, or as a result of an intense personal crisis or experience." [wikipedia] So, partly, it's possible, I reckon, to develop some light forms of it as this 'roller coaster', as you call it, covers some of KS-related phenomena. It's just a matter of terminology, I guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks a lot again, guys.

This post has been edited by iampagan: Sep 26 2008, 03:10 PM

OK, I understand that this involuntary 'blending' - using so different techniques in the same time - was wrong. And I think managed to eliminate it. But, if I get it right, you mean that even performing exercises from various systems one after another or with some longer interval is still not so good - which is something I do not understand. Why is that so?

Imagine if you will, that someone is building a house. Now, there are steps that need to be taken, and some of them can be switched up, but you will need a location, blueprints, material, then a frame, wiring, plumbing, the walls, etc... but imagine if you tried to do all of those things at once. There would be conflict. If you put the walls on while doing the wiring, then you wouldn't be able to wire parts of the house, if you put the plumbing in before the frame, then you'd have to cut out parts of the frame. In short, there would be conflict, chaos, and then ultimately an improperly built house.

You want to take things a step at a time. Hard work doesn't just mean piling lots of practices on and drilling hard every day. Hard work means discipline. It means having the patience and focus to observe yourself, time to study, and comprehend, the material you are learning from (whether that's a book or a teacher), and then to pace yourself using good judgment and wise practice methods. Also, if you want to be certain of the efficacy of each practice, you need to do them one at a time, separately, to observe their results. If you pile them all on top of one another, you can't be sure what is giving you results, and then in the end maybe you achieved something... but how did you achieve it? What can you do to reproduce those effects? If you take a few days off and the effects, not yet permanent for you, fade away, do you go back to doing all of those practices to achieve them again?

This is a lifetime's worth of work, and yes, you should slow down and do one practice at a time. Because if you don't, then all your practice really gets you is a schedule. Whatever you achieve, you won't understand what it was or how you got there, and if you don't have that understanding, you don't really have anything but - possibly - a party trick.

It's another thing that needs explaining. So how should I perform this? I guess it doesn't require lifetime's practice - otherwise Kraig wouldn't put it in chapter three (each chapter - or 'lesson' - is supposed to be exercised for one month...). Should I make my air intake much slower or practice to speed up the wrapping process? Well, besides... I've always had problems with avoiding hyperventilation while using any techniques involving moving the energy in the body. I believe breath and the flow of the energy have some kind of connection...?

There are many different patterns of breathing for different energetic ends. However, to use them you must first master the most basic. Your breath should be even, slow, and quiet - you should not hear it externally or internally - you should breath through your nose, and you should focus exclusively on the tip of your nose when you breath. This will calm your heart, your mind, and eventually your spirit, and is a good place to begin practice from. It will prevent you from hyperventilating, because if you are breathing too deeply too fast, then you will be able to hear it. If you cannot breath in all the way in 4 beats (I assume you're practicing rythmic breathing in these practices) then add more, or slow down your counting. Take the 'wrapping' as it were, slower if you need to. In time you'll be able to move the energy more quickly, it just takes time. For some things, there really are not any short cuts, no matter how hard you work. Better to work smart, patient, with focus and discipline.

Hmm, I'm afraid you're right. I think I won't have enough time to include anything else in my day plan (no meditations, LRH or anything...) especially now that the academic years is about to start (1st October). The thing is I want to accomplish various things that require various skills. I want some general magickal development, so I follow Kraig's Modern Magick (LBRP+MP+CoBoL and tuning to elements), have a strong desire to perform evocations in the future (Konstantinos and his Summoning Spirits exercises, mere visualizations right now but later there's going to be scrying etc.) and also wish to be capable of astral projection in the next several months (and here goes Robert Bruce and this New Energy Ways system that I'd written about).

I have been practicing a series of exercises dealing with astral projection for several years. I have experiences more frequently, and I have some more control over them, and can sometimes do it on purpose - but that took more than several months, possibly in part because of the unfocused nature of my practice. While I'm not saying it is the same for you, or for anyone for that matter, you have to think of this like growing up - you can take care of your body at each stage of development, eat healthy, get exercise, etc., but nothing is going to make you 'grown up' except time. You can't rush your 18th birthday, you can't rush occult skill. If you try to rush it, you'll miss out on the whole point and when you do - if you do - get anywhere, again, you won't know how or why or what it means and you'll have wasted all your time.

The statement highlighted above shows specifically what i'm talking about here. What skills are you trying to develop? Do you know how to develop them? Are you sure that their development isn't interdependent? If you want general magickal development, what does that mean and where do you want it to lead you? Just piling on a bunch of different practices will more than likely slow you down that speed you up.

If you were to slow it down, it might go something like this: For one month focus on inner awareness; for a second month, focus on calming and controlling your thoughts; for a third month focus on controlling your actions, your physical discipline; for a fourth month begin some meditation practice like the MP ritual, and do it every day, and record your feelings, and developments, you difficulties, your progress, etc., while also maintaining the other practices. Do the MP ritual every day until you start to comprehend not only how to do it and in theory what it is supposed to do, but what it is actually doing for you, how you have changed, and you finally comprehend and apprehend litterally every facet of the practice - it's purpose, its effect (experientially, not just theoretically), and the secondary skills it is developing in your being (which you'd know about probably already if you had been slowing it down).

Then, when you have completely mastered that practice, and only then, add another one, like the LBRP. And so on.

It may take years, but when you have gotten far enough to look back and appreciate that work and the fruits you've gotten from it, you'll know a lot more and be able to work outside the box, and take control of your development in the way that, if I understand you, you are trying to do now.

You have nothing else, really, to do with the next 60+ years, right? Besides eat, sleep, breath, live, love, and die.

peace

LOL! Thank you, Vagrant! You've said it far more articulately than I ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Greetings!
This is slightly off-topic but, I think, must be said, nonetheless.
The purpose in telling you to slow down and not blend systems was addressed very well by Vagrant. I am disturbed about something else you said:

Your post made me rethink some matters but also made me a bit confused, to tell you the truth... as I partly lost the confidence in what I'm doing...

Why? You have an array of fine exercises, a good mind and the drive to accomplish whatever you desire to achieve. IMHO, you have laid out a study/practice syllabus that may be too steep to climb! I was not one to follow established ways in my practice of magic...I was extremely enthusiastic. It makes for an interesting life! Good! But don't set yourself up to fail. You have delineated your rate of success in almost black and white terms! It may take longer than 5 years to accomplish what you have set out to do! Astral projection in a couple of months? Read Bruces book again. It is very noble to have these aspirations and they will pay off! But the goal is only a third of the prize! The journey is another third. Both of those are wrapped in the last third, a conciousness that encompasses your realities. Will you be so discouraged enough to throw it out when your "impatience" factor is reached? I hope not. Magic permeates you. I hope you achieve your goals, living them fully along the way, even if it takes a lifetime!

So much for brevity...! LOL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/horse.gif)

I agree with Vagrant and Bym, but am adding another caution. You mention hyperventilating and forcing energy. I am not familiar with this CoBoL that you mention so I might be off base. It isn't part of Robert Bruce's information is it? There are advanced practices in qigong and yoga that involve pressurizing the breath. In qigong is it called 'qi packing' and in yoga it is called 'locking.' Essentially you tighten the throat muscles and the urogenital and sphincter muscles while squeezing your breath in the abdomen. It has some useful applications, but is advanced. With what you describe you might knowingly or unknowingly do this in your exercises. The dangers are not as severe as with kundalini practices, but can cause large plugs in your energy--usually in the solar plexus. Just understand that there are other problems possible and that some things you should avoid until you have enough experience and training.

I haven't replied for some time as I needed to slowly 'digest' the information...

Yeah, you're probably right. I'm hitting hard on the brakes right now. I was totally confused, you know, you do something, believe it's good for you, you achieve some kind of 'momentum', so to speak or maybe develop some weird kind of workaholism... and, all of a sudden, I'm at the very beginning again, learning to KNOW MYSELF, how to breathe, relax and control my thoughts. It's a bit painful to start everything all over again but... yeah, you are right, guys. Some things have to be done properly. So, thanks for making me realize it.

As I shouldn't use various energy work techniques, I think I'll be out of Ceremonial Magick subforum for a while (maybe a year?) and I won't be touching any Golden Dawn rituals, unfortunately not even LBRP... Bruce's exercises seem to give me more tangible results (and give them faster so that I can 'finish them off' in a relatively short period of time and go back to Ceremonial Magick) So... I think that some relaxation techniques (including rhytmic breathing you mentioned) plus NEW plus reactivating dream and magick diary would make a good beginning. Vipassana would be great too, but I'm not sure if it doesn't mean piling up exercises again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hmm.gif)

Oh, and bym - don't worry. Perdurabo. I was confused but not even considering giving up. You didn't discourage me. And I'm quite sure that at the recent pace I not going to break.
Thank you all for the advice.