To Keep Silence!, *ADVANCED* Occult/Mystical Question! Options

Occultists and Mystics, I trust you will use your Wisdom in reading in-between the lines below, and answer this complex question (which is a struggle for me).
I thank you in advance for reading this post, and for your delicate attention.

"To know, to dare, to will, and to KEEP SILENCE."

A bit of History is in order.

Agrippa's authority on the matter is found in his Three Books of Occult Philosophy.

Lisiewski holds that the operation ought to be performed 'alone' in "Ceremonial Magic and the Power of Evocation."

The temple area should not be entered, nor items touched or seen. If they are, "there can be severe problems for the Magician unless reversed..." But how?!

"Howlings" is strict about even 'touching' the box in which the ritual item (even ordered under the proper auspices) is contained until the right moment!

If our ritual tools or space is invaded by another's mind (via a thoughtform, for example), or touched by another's body--there can undoubtedly be issues unless the Teacher, for instance only, senses it is is O.K., or has a knowledge of the phases of the moon, or has a power or knowledge to "fix" the problem by dictating the student how to solve the 'matter.'

I know a married individual who performed evocations and magic for years and never once let his own wife know! Whether is true or not is open to your own interpretation.

I've thrown away items myself for fear that I had broken a rule. But I did not count the cost, and started over.

I am referring to a System of Magic that is being STRICTLY observed!

To keep silence.

I personally moved away from Ceremonial Magic and transferred into Mysticism (another system entirely).

But as the saying goes, "Boys and their Toys." Some things never change, do they?

**So I purchased a magical item with my boyfriend and the seller used another tool to help me choose it (the latter also purchased). These were under no magical auspices by the way. My boyfriend witnessed my purchasing of it, but I somehow felt that a part of his thought transferred into the item, not making it less powerful necessarily (power is in MY mind), but I feel awkward that if we break up for any reason (or fight etc), the item will be tainted with that memory because it was MARKED by an experience of an old lover, for instance. I would want to keep the item but it may be a distraction for my intention. I have decided to keep the item anonymous for a couple reasons, but also because technically, it could be ANYTHING. This is the "problem" I am addressing in my post. He knows about the item, but he was not of a magical mind that I know of, at the time of the purchase. Whenever I use the item, he seems to be "associated" with it.**

I have since allowed him to use it with me in a moment of great, great, trial which instantly brought about results--but this was MY choice.
I have also allowed others with Mystical mindsets to see and handle it but only because I allowed it!

I have allowed him to use other items such as stones etc because it was MY choice but something about a romantic association with him really bothers me. It becomes a memory in the past if anything goes wrong and will distract me from my INTENTION since it is a magical item being used with mystical techniques (to help me FOCUS mainly).
His thoughtforms of contempt for the item which I am using perhaps after a fight for example (even though it it's physically hidden) may interfere. He has just almost always been around with me at the time of my purchases--it's just the way it has happened.

Should these expensive items be discarded? How can I resolve this issue in my own mind mystically, magically, psychologically?

I know a Mystic that saw this item and he said "what you bought was sacred." If you have any doubts simply say, "It is cleared." He also said that Magical items are only allowed to be used if permission from the Magician is obtained. One's choice is Sacred and there is only a movement forward. But that nagging association...

Alas! What if someone by accident sees the item? A nosey cleaner for example, that was let into the home while one was away

To keep silence.

I know a VERY GOOD friend that joined a Magickal group and told me very personal things even after his dedication. One of the rules is that "nothing can be said" lest disaster befall him. But we have both exchanged Magical secrets so it seems to work for him.

To keep silence.

What is the underlying Magical/Mystical LAW concerning letting others into the innermost chambers of one's mind? I want to work within that Law (who doesn't) in order to bring about the highest results through myself. I seem to be standing in my own way, but there is certainly a form of "cognitive dissonance" here that I can no longer ignore.

The rule seems to be broken for Magical friends, love interests etc.

My question lies in associated memory (of a past date entering a magic store) with a love interest and buying an item with which one is now trying to focus--causing distraction--even his obliteration of an operation due to possible subconscious negative thoughts.

It's complicated, but at the time I trusted and now have what seems to be a technical question.

But to keep silence?


This post has been edited by novadood: Jul 31 2011, 09:49 PM

The reason Lisiewski and his fan club are not allowed to say anything is really very simple and has nothing to do with magic. The fact is that they are simply hiding total inactivity/ineptitude, and don't want you to find out about it. Sorry to disappoint you, but it's a fact.

I know they sound totally serious and hard-core but it's all for show. Lisiewski began an awful tradition of brow-beating anyone interested in the subject so that it was "his way or no way" and that you can't possibly be doing anything real unless you abide his rules. Newsflash! That's all a bunch of crap, and it's about time earnest students stopped feeling so obligated toward the ridiculous demands of that ruined crackpot and his pretentious cronies.

Yes, there is a proper way to approach magical arts, but Lisiewski is not the authority on that and neither is anyone else. Read the books, practice them as well as you can, and innovate upon them as you see fit. You are told in the Key of Solomon, for example, to set aside your consecrated tools in a specially-embroidered silk cloth, and to avoid using the art for evil or vain purposes. There is no grand set of rules for keeping everything absolutely secret for everyone or else it must be discarded, and most of the old grimoires don't even prescribe secrecy.

Obviously it is a bad idea to go blabbing to your neighbors, friends, and co-workers that you are a magician who intends to cast spells and conjure spirits. It is a social rule, though, not an occult rule.

[font=Times New Roman]Lisiewski is hardcore, but it's his "opinion" that some choose to follow--this is okay also. Bashing him or his students is not always the best "social rule" either. Everyone must find their way, as you have. What he believes and what others believe is simply alright too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You were able to address the blabbing on about magical knowledge--I agree. I wonder if it the power resides in the energy of the thing (ritual tool for example, that has been charged, for example) which the mind uses to create change. I wonder if by "keeping silence" it is a way of evolution in the Magical and Mystical Arts. Will it matter eventually? Must silence "always" be kept. The rule is broken all the time. It may be the power in the MIND OF THE MAGE/MYSTIC that matters and in the tapping of the energy of the thing itself.

What about love interests, and how that marks the mind with association or "memory" of an event (that is not wanted anymore)?

Also, how their mind (let's say if one breaks up with them), can still interfere with your own?

Thanks again.

This post has been edited by novadood: Aug 1 2011, 11:49 AM

Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?

"Keep Silent" is not a rule of magic. It isn't important. It is probably yet another thing Elphas Levi made up and then expected people would not question.

Anyone who tells you to discard a magical artifact because your boyfriend touched it, or because you remember something else about it that is no longer relevant, is just ignorant.

I have seen "OSM" people like George Abraham (Lisiewski's heir-apparent) tell their disciples to discard magical tools on account of a part of a paper wrapper touching the table in the kitchen, and then act as if it were absolutely necessary. That is a oad of crap. it is just a series of inconveniences that you are expected to endure at your expense, and excuses failure. I have also seen them, in all seriousness, tell people their spells fail "because the starrs were not right." Remember that their perspective is just one of many, not the one true belief.

Thank you Imperial Arts! That really cleared things up for me, and gave me some insight.

I can only guess, but my issue may have been OCD...which "could" be the lower self creating an "illusion" that I could not continue forth Magically or Mystically--"a reducto ad absurdum"--all things evolve--especially our understanding of the Occult Arts and Sciences. If a mistake is made, I once heard, it is "forgivable at first."

We are all students of Life. If we make a mistake, we can move forward, but looking back and regretting our Sacred CHOICE is utter foolishness. Now, if we choose to BELIEVE what "The Magus" says, "MAGIC FLIES FROM THE PUBLIC AND SEEKS TO BE HID" one can follow this rule. Same for the "discarding."

Christ said, "Nothing is hidden which will not be revealed."
As for discarding, this will not even be relevant when we realize that "All is One." It is perhaps needed in developing "Magical" minds though.

As we ascend, these matters will matter less and less, as we forgive our mistakes, continue ACTIVELY moving, and finding that inner Kingdom which is "nearer to our heart and closer to us than our breath."

Again, my thanks.




This post has been edited by novadood: Aug 2 2011, 01:00 AM

Imperial Arts: do you feel there is any helpful material to be found in Lisiewski's work? I was gifted a copy, and I was considering trying things his way, but never did.

Pending IA's reply, novadood, I would say not to throw out everything you have learned from Lisiewski. If I'm recalling the right book, he is on the right track in some areas: literalism in grimoire work is definitely the way to go. The whole silence issue is quite ridiculous, though. You don't see such a rule written in any but modern books, as far as I know, and while the ancients don't have a monopoly on occult wisdom, a "law of silence" is a great way for the modern publisher to invoke the "law of cash"!

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Aug 2 2011, 02:14 AM

Imperial Arts: do you feel there is any helpful material to be found in Lisiewski's work?

Yes, and it can be summed up in a few words: take the work seriously and do it correctly.

I've posted my thoughts on the remainder of his work here and there across the board. I think he is wrong to dismiss modern and/or innovative approaches to magic as ineffective, and I believe his prescribed Axioms and the Slingshot Effect are mostly crap. I think his offer to secretly instruct students for $600 monthly is probably the worst mark against his work, and says more than his dubious PhD ever could about his level of legitimacy.

Imperial, wow ... It's gone up to $600? Hmm... yikes?

I personally learned quite a bit from his works. I just think that his point is "do what the text says TO THE LETTER, be SMART and put your WHOLE HEART into it. In one short word, his philosophy is "WORK," as any Magician and or Mystic should. Not bad advice. Hey, I'd take it from a drunk and thank him probably!

Point is, if we all (myself included) get too caught up in Lisiewski's "person" we'll lose the point. Life is a journey the SELF takes and may be guided by another, if desired. Be cautious, use YOUR OWN common sense, and intuition--just because someone "says it" does not mean it is true for you! I think this applies to my question about "KEEPING SILENCE." Many Magicians have gone against what Agrippa and Levi have said and have attained results that sometimes I cannot even fathom.

We all experience different things, and staying OBJECTIVE is always best. Form your OWN opinions after applying the rules--then, I'd say, EXPERIMENT. If Magic is Science, it should ALWAYS be questioned! Authority comes from your own experience, and it is never wrong for ANOTHER to question it or do something different to gain similar, equal, or even better results. It's evolution baby! If magic is man-made and man is evolving, does man not gain a greater understanding of the LAW in the growth process? Of course! Magic is limitless.

There are some great and I think genuine guys on this forum. Help will always be given if you are seeking it with a pure heart. Never give up! So many times, "it" finds you i.e. you ATTRACT it to yourself, I have always found. "Seek and ye shall find."

Great thread!

Yes, and it can be summed up in a few words: take the work seriously and do it correctly.

I've posted my thoughts on the remainder of his work here and there across the board. I think he is wrong to dismiss modern and/or innovative approaches to magic as ineffective, and I believe his prescribed Axioms and the Slingshot Effect are mostly crap. I think his offer to secretly instruct students for $600 monthly is probably the worst mark against his work, and says more than his dubious PhD ever could about his level of legitimacy.

I'm reading the book now. The $600 fee does not speak well of him, and if he can do all he claims in the book, I wonder why he would need to charge so much in the first place.

So far, I agree with your analysis of his axioms, the "Slingshot Effect" in particular; it was actually quite worrying to me at first, but his claim that it always happens exactly like that is not born out by the experiences of any of the practitioners I know. Moreover, I see no reason why it should be so: his description is awful specific, and seems fairly arbitrary. I find his prohibition against mixing systems odd, as well. Of course there could be problems with a haphazard, slapdash approach; but as far as I know, every magical system out there is syncretic in nature.

I was most disappointed, though, when I came across his claim that if full manifestation fails to occur, it could be because of improper "subjective synthesis." It's just an escape route for him if his material fails to measure up: Oh, you followed my directions but nothing came of it? You must have failed to achieve the proper subjective synthesis.

I mostly agree with his criticism of New Age material, though. Visualization is rubbish, in my not-so-humble opinion: a recipe for self-delusion. Crowley's works have also always failed to impress me, as has the Golden Dawn; both are based on inaccurate historical scholarship, as far as I know, and advocate (what seems to me to be) a "toothless" form of magic: do either ever promise any sort of physical effect or material gain? I believe they are based upon personal/spiritual advancement, instead. As Lisiewski puts it, it's more of a replacement for religion than magic. But we're both probably in the minority in these views.

This post has been edited by Vilhjalmr: Aug 3 2011, 11:09 PM

Crowley's works have also always failed to impress me, as has the Golden Dawn; both are based on inaccurate historical scholarship, as far as I know, and advocate (what seems to me to be) a "toothless" form of magic: do either ever promise any sort of physical effect or material gain?

I do agree that New Age mystical magicians who accomplish nothing are far too common. The same could be said of any other occult discipline too, even hard-core grimoire fanatics. This fact is the number one reason for such staunch secrecy policies among the official Lisiewski fan clubs.

On the other hand, the Golden Dawn/Crowley system has every form of practical magic you can find in other occult systems. There is divination in several forms, formulae for invocation and evocation, and any manner of spell-casting you can possibly desire. Consider, for example, the adaptation of the Hexagram rituals for planetary power, wherein one conjures the spirits of Venus instead of performing a complicated love-spell using candles, dirt, wax and so forth. The system requires a lot of adaptation and special terms, as in a lot of developmental work and specialized equipment, but it does have the capacity to perform the work it is designed to do.

A lot of the Golden Dawn system is heavily rooted in the grimoires, and of all the various occult systems I know, it is probably the most complete and coherent attempt to mix a generalized "ceremonial magic" from a selection of written lore. Whereas Agrippa presented a lot of information without really attempting to tie it together into a unified system, the Golden Dawn did. The people involved in the Golden Dawn were bright and useful on the whole, and the effects of their occult work - others as well as Crowley - played a significant role in the genesis of the modern age. If only we would be so fortunate to see as great an influence exerted by any other school of magic.

In all fairness and respect to everyone's personal belief systems, I do not believe that the number "one" reason for secrecy policies with Lisiewski's "elite" is because his students, personal or otherwise, are not getting results!

Under OSM rules, which adhere to Agrippa's works, Trithemius', etc, and those principles of Joseph C. Lisiewski, Ph.D as reference points, "to keep silent" is an occult secrecy PRINCIPLE--which one can follow or not as the author seems fit (i.e. one can share what one wishes at his or her DISCRETION)--this says something interesting about "magic flying from the public and seeking to be hid"--even WITHIN PRIVATE CIRCLES!! This is the main point of this discussion in this thread.

Mixing systems, in MY personal EXPERIENCE will merit the SINCERE student of the occult little to nothing at all. No one HAS to follow this rule, though. I am always trying to point to what I KNOW has "WORKED" for me--and others who have trod upon this road.

It is nearly impossible to directly state "why" someone has failed in a magical operation--whether from a poor subjective synthesis, poor belief, poor application of methods--the list can go on "ad infinitum." As I said, the EXPERIENCE of a magical working is a personal and above all, INDIVIDUALIZED.

No one system is better than another. They are all stepping stones to that One Universal knowledge. EFFICACY and RESULTS should be the measure of our stride in our search for God.

This post has been edited by novadood: Aug 6 2011, 12:13 PM

In all fairness and respect to everyone's personal belief systems, I do not believe that the number "one" reason for secrecy policies with Lisiewski's "elite" is because his students, personal or otherwise, are not getting results!

Pretty much any system you pick will be a mixture of others, and that is especially true for the grimoires. There are more than 100 different versions of the Key of Solomon and they all demand exactitude on every point. The idea that one is correct and the others are worthless is nonsense. They each represent a part of a larger system with very fuzzy edges.

I began my experiments with the Lemegeton with the assumption that it was a workable system. It covers most of the bases as far as what you might want to do with magic, and the procedures are detailed and complete with no mythical ingredients. I did not choose to work this system in its original form because I thought it was the ultimate and most-awesome thing ever, or out of fear of editing or revising it, but on account of there being no reliable report of anyone ever having actually used it. People knew what Goetia-like magic was about, but no record of the performance ever existed before I set out to try it.

My own experiment was, in my opinion, an act of science. I am using the grimoire as a set of experimental protocols, a stable ground upon which the other parts of the work can grow. I find that most people have very poorly developed concepts of what to do to perform magic, so they throw together whatever is interesting and then try it out. There was no reason to suspect what they were doing would work in the first place, whereas I had reasonable suspicions that the Lemegeton was effective.

It quickly became clear that the work was actually fairly complicated in design with a relatively simple performance. A lot of odd ideas drawn from the depths of Biblical lore are brought to bear in the Lemegeton, as well as several common concepts from occultism. Following the work closely, according to the original design, made these things clear to me and I doubt they would have come to light without my insistence on the purity of the system.

So it works, as do the other grimoires, but so do a lot of other things. Golden Dawn ceremonies are every bit as effective as Santeria, Hoodoo, Goetia, and chanting random bits of the Sepher Raziel. There are effective non-traditional occult disciplines also. Anyone who thinks that the Heptameron (or any similar work) as it is written is the only way to safely and effectively perform magic, is an idiot. If they are not themselves an idiot, they expect that you are.

As far as results goes, something about a tree and its fruit comes to mind. The people into hard-core medieval magic are not much different from the Chaos Magicians and the Golden Dawn adepts. They live normal boring lives and do normal boring crap. Their insistence on technical perfection does not translate into real-world gain of any discernable type. Lisiewski himself has a bogus PhD and his great claim to fame is what? His sperm turned into sea monkeys? Gimme a break.

I really don't mean to just bash the OSM guys for being block-heads but they had it coming in a big way. The whole OSM thing revolves around pretense, without which their whole gig would appear as it really is: yet another approach to occult ceremonies that is fundamentally equal to all the others. They're not special or powerful, and most of them aren't even all that experienced, and the silence is there to keep YOU from knowing that.

I implore you, while you are young, to spurn all such false teachers and dubious mystic masters, and to look for the ways to make your own life awesome so that you do not waste time giving lip-service to those who are really only out to swindle you.

This post has been edited by Imperial Arts: Aug 7 2011, 12:51 AM

novadood,

I want to bring the topic of discussion back to your question regarding the so called "four powers of the sphinx" i.e. to KNOW to DARE to WILL and to KEEP SILENCE. The last of these is perhaps the most difficult to interpret on a basis of many reasons. Firstly, what is meant by silence - is it physical silence, psychological silence, moral silence etc. This fourth constraint may be interpreted fairly in all of these context. Magick is a synthesis philosophy, science, and art; interpreting its axioms requires the analysis of multiple perspectives.

Furthermore, one must realize that magick is an old tradition, and that the people who partook in it often did so at the risk of excommunication from the church or other inquisition. Being caught dabbling with the occult in these times was a high crime - thus the law of silence has as its basis a very practical aim of not being caught in the act either directly or by superstition. This is the zeroth order interpretation.

Now with regard to the higher interpretations, one must be very willing to ask serious questions. "Silence" may in a sense be replaced by "equilibrium" - for silence is a meditative calm in which one is present and in reality but not acting overmuch. This is the metaphysical silence. To do magick effectively, one must have as a prerequisite a balanced mind. A balanced mind is a controlled mind, and it is controlled by the WILL. To control the will requires KNOWLEDGE and the strength to DARE to control which at face value is intangible and uncontrollable. Here in lies the philosophers stone in a sense, the key to the great magical arcanum.

In my experience, magick is a very personal experience - so personal that the utility of being silent becomes self evident. The aim of magic is to develop the will - and to cultivate the self to the highest level. To do this you will be forced in a sense to confront some of the negative aspects of yourself in a very profound way. Certainly, it is good to talk about your experiences, but pick and choose wisely what you share with others.

For another perspective on this matter, I highly suggest chapter 8 of Eliphas Levi's Trancendental Magic (the Ritual section: Book II) which treats this matter quite well.

Best
Sirius666

This post has been edited by sirius666: Aug 12 2011, 08:32 AM

TO KEEP SILENCE is a very important part of the Work, for many different reasons, if it didn't have respect to the laws Nature follows, it wouldn't have been added to the equation.

In the Gospel of Thomas, we read "do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing." Truth is similar to that like a speck of light in a vast universe of darkness. this light can't be broken up, it can only be darkened when you try to, which will give opportunity for the darkness which it constitutes to "overthrow" it in a sense. When it is said "don't cast the pearls before the swine," this would be that very pearl, formed by years of creative droplets into your Vessel. Also, when people get confronted by a person of power, it would act as a compound like Sun and Moon philosophically, the Moon can't necessarily face the light of the Sun's blinding glow, Moon is jealous, and Moon either can decide to eclipse Sun, or Moon will orbit sun as an untrustworthy follower, for Moon might backstab Sun each day to lay her head on, for instance, Earth, for roughly one day out of every 28 days she seems nowhere to be found. But Sun will always shine true constituting the laws of it's orbiters, until it finally passes on to a different state. One thing that is very important to know, is that firmness of Mind, and Wise speech is very important, for Sun cannot be killed nor raised up or lowered by its orbiters, for instance, if you were to kill that force which constitute's Sun's fixed glory (we'll call this Body), it cannot lose its composition, energies can only break down and compound, they can't be destroyed, created, or changed, only recycled.

Magic is everywhere, but Magic rightly disposed is as rare as finding a pearl by diving into the shore and prying open clams, it's just not found that way, it's better to stay on your island, harvest what's there, and then take those things you've found and put them into the Fire of Zoroaster to roast, when you have the ash, don't shun it and throw it into the ocean, keep it sacred because those ashes are the remains of the Phoenix of 600 years.

Hope I helped.

This post has been edited by †§L£ÅŽ£!†: Sep 6 2011, 03:18 AM

Hi. Guess I might as well chime in here.

Bardon is on of the major writers to expand on the four pillars of the magickal arts. To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Keep Silent. To Know means to do the study and aquire the knowlege of how magick works. To Dare means that instead of just being an armchair magician, you actually DO the work, put in the practice and thats how you get results. To Will means you put your WHOLE being into the work, into everything you do. To Keep Silent means just that, you dont talk about the magick you are working on, studying, or practicing.

One reason that Bardon gives for the silence part is that true magick IS a sacred art, and its not for everyone. If every single person on earth woke up tomorrow with the ability to do all the things in Bardons system, the world would most likely come to an end before lunch....at least humanity would. People would be killing each other magickaly left and right. Millions of people would be magickaly controlling other peoples minds, etc. Some things really are best left to people who are willing to work for them, because part of gaining the ability is that you also have to develop the maturity to not misuse the powers you develop. Its sort of built into the system......you wont really master a magickal ability until you are mature enough not to misuse it.

As Bardon explains, there are higher powers in the universe that form a sort of heirarchy in the magickal world, and if you run around blabbing your mouth to everyone you see, then those powers WILL slow down, or stop completely, your magickal development. On the other hand, a person who shows thru actions that he will hold magick as sacred and not reveal his hard one secrets to the common man will be given more secrets that lets him develop faster.

So....thats one very big reason for the importance of keeping silent.

The other is this....every spell you cast or send out into the universe has a certain amount of energy tied up with it. That energy is going to seek the shortest route to manifestation. IF you talk about the spell you just cast, guess what? You just allowed the spell to manifest in a quick and easy way.....by your talking about it. Every time you talk about a spell, you ARE tapping into the energy of that spell and allowing that energy into the world thru your words. If you Keep Silent, then the spell has to find another way to manifest into this world, and so it will most likely manifest by actually working and causing the thing you cast it for to happen in this world.

Cast a spell for something small, then go brag about it to friends and see if the spell works. THEN go cast that same spell, and this time keep Silent, all the while holding the idea in your head that your silence only adds power to the spell and will cause it to work in order to make the energy you put into it manifest. If you follow this simple rule, you should see succesful results of your spells skyrocket.

If your looking for a system that has Silence as one of its main components then I would recommend Initiation Into Hermetics as the place to go. Bardons entire magickal system is based around those Four Pillars.

Bardon mentions that most of the spirits he has dealt with, in terms of evocation, have tended to insist that most (although not all) of what he told them be kept classified. In Goetic terms, Frucissiere is supposed to be able to give a person a process that will enable them to give a servitor a physical body, but he insists that said process is kept secret.

So among spirits, some amount of secrecy is standard procedure. The usual reason offered for that is because the majority of non-magical society do not have the sufficient levels of responsibility or maturity to be able to handle such abilities, and it therefore must be kept from them until they are sufficiently mature for it, in order to avoid causing major problems.

On top of that, you also have potential social issues to consider. These days, you're not likely to get burned alive if someone knows you engage in extracurricular activities, no; but given how atheistic our society is, you're likely to at least get a fair amount of scorn and contempt if it becomes common knowledge. Within contemporary Islamic circles, it also *could* still get you killed.

I don't necessarily broadcast my own interests, offline. Most of the people who've known me for any length of time, will generally come to consider me strange without magick ever entering the conversation, so it probably wouldn't surprise them...but truthfully, I've experienced enough both physical and psychological abuse for being "different," at various times, that for the most part, it makes sense to keep quiet. On the other hand, where I'm currently living is a particularly eclectic part of the world, and around here, magickally oriented (although white shamanic usually, rather than hermetic/Western) is actually fairly normal.

In summary, while I don't consider keep silent to be a hard and fast *rule*, when in doubt, it generally *is* a fairly good piece of advice. It's always better to be safe than sorry.