Anybody Else Want To Start An Organization? Options

Anybody else want to form a sort of magickal EPA? I've seen too much ridiculousness of non-magickal people attempting to peacefully resolve things which obviously cannot be resolved without some magick.

As magicians, wizards, witches... whatever the hell you call yourself, we are all tapping into the forces of the earth to use our magick. Whether you prefer summoning demons, selling souls to satan, smashing things with storm winds or stirring herbal poultices, we all use power from the earth to do what we do - whether the gods of it, the souls of the people on it, its own very components or things that we grow in it, we rely on the earth magickally - to exclude the very basic necessities of life (food, water, air) that it gives up.

As far as human forces like devlopment and legal hunting go, there's no reason to interfere - that doesn't require our help. However - slowing global warming and regulating weather patterns is something which normal people clearly have no ability to stop. Shall we band together and fight destruction or let the natural world go to hell around us?

As humans it's our problem and that makes it our duty to solve it. So will anyone join me on the way?

I think your right when you say that people with magickal powers should do what they can to help the planet. Though not from a magickal standpoint, this is an issue I have given some thought to and certainly do agree that something should be done. However, I wonder how you plan to go about this as some of the issues facing the world are rather dire. Global warming for instance is something that thousands of people around the world contribute to everyday. Without a significant amount of people with magickal abilities contributing to the cause wouldn't it be like fighting a losing battle?

Without a significant amount of people with magickal abilities contributing to the cause wouldn't it be like fighting a losing battle?

It's not so much fighting a battle as stalling for time - people are contributing to global warming nonstop, but if we focus our power on fighting that losing battle just to stall for enough time for the human population as a whole to do SOMETHING. Which we seem to be incapable of. f%*! YOU, CHENEY (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rant.gif) . That said, there's also other things we could do (obstruct the operations of Japanese whalers, etc.). Naturally, there needs to be a line between environmental protection and environmental terrorism, so there would be no harm done to humans - just help. Just time given.

Additionally, I think we could bring about that many people - most occultists are in tune with the earth and who would be more passionate about the environment than wiccans?

Well I'm all for that, but like you I'm rather wary of waiting for humanity to change their ways. Also, how would you monitor the people who are part of your group to prevent them from becoming environmental terrorists? I'm just saying this because some people have radical views about how things should be done, but don't always make them public.

Well I'm all for that, but like you I'm rather wary of waiting for humanity to change their ways. Also, how would you monitor the people who are part of your group to prevent them from becoming environmental terrorists?

I will wait because we're in the middle of the next cultural revolution - it isn't as obvious, but going green is getting more and more popular and it won't be long now until it's more common; environmental activists are today's hippies. As far as monitoring goes, they would invariably be detected - a rogue terrorist magician generally isn't hard for the practiced eye to spot - especially one that's working on scrying.

If nothing else, casting (something) to make sure that BP is held financially responsible for cleaning up the disaster in the gulf would be an excellent start...

Wish I could say I had faith in the ability of the justice system to hold BP responsible, but for the lawyers and the loopholes and the ability of corporate behemoths to exploit the system.

I am boycotting BP, but I had to buy $2.00 worth of their gas today because I was running on fumes. On the pump, I noticed a little label that told customers to closely monitor the gas nozzle and warned them that they would be responsible for any spills made, all of which I found a bit ironic.

This post has been edited by monkman418: Aug 30 2010, 12:11 AM

If nothing else, casting (something) to make sure that BP is held financially responsible for cleaning up the disaster in the gulf would be an excellent start...

I think the normal people have that under control (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I was thinking something more along the lines of trying to contain the oil (IMG:style_emoticons/default/13.gif)

If nothing else, casting (something) to make sure that BP is held financially responsible for cleaning up the disaster in the gulf would be an excellent start...

Wish I could say I had faith in the ability of the justice system to hold BP responsible, but for the lawyers and the loopholes and the ability of corporate behemoths to exploit the system.

While I do agree when you say that BP should be held resposible, I also think this is one situation where BP will get what's coming to them; and one where we wouldn't have to intervene. Their PR people have done an atrocious job of placating the public and the idiotic statements their upper management has made hasn't helped. That aside their screw up has cost thousands of people their livelihood and those people aren't about to back down quietly. So I'll agree with Ethereal in that containing the spill would be a higher priority. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the well still leaking? If so I think stopping that should take priority.

I think your right when you say that people with magickal powers should do what they can to help the planet. Though not from a magickal standpoint, this is an issue I have given some thought to and certainly do agree that something should be done. However, I wonder how you plan to go about this as some of the issues facing the world are rather dire. Global warming for instance is something that thousands of people around the world contribute to everyday. Without a significant amount of people with magickal abilities contributing to the cause wouldn't it be like fighting a losing battle?

Not as far as I am concerned. That's like saying noone can run a 5 minute mile while training to run a 5 minute mile. It is extremely counterproductive. It seems to be common sense that you can set yourself up for failures that wouldn't happen otherwise if a more positive approach were taken but a lot of people seem to miss the obvious. If your goal is to magically stop global warming then seriously practice, not just ever day, but every minute of every day and you will then be able to draw your own limits. 'Size' doesn't seem to count for much from what I have read (yeah secondhand knowledge). It seems to be all in your head. I like these lyrics from the song Clint Eastwood by the Gorillaz:

The essence the basics
Without it you make it
Allow me to make this
Childlike in nature
Rhythm
You have it or you don't that's a fallacy
I'm in them
Every sprouting tree
Every child apiece
Every cloud you see
You see with your eyes
I see destruction and demise
Corruption in disguise
From this fuckin' enterprise
Now I'm sucking to your lies
Through Russ, though not his muscles but the percussion he provides
with me as a guide
But y'all can see me now cos you don't see with your eye
You perceive with your mind
That's the inner
So I'm gonna stick around with Russ and be a mentor
Bust a few rhymes so mother fuckers
Remember where the thought is
I brought all this
So you can survive when law is lawless
Feelings, sensations that you thought were dead
No squealing, remember
(that it's all in your head)

Oh and by the way I think global warming due to humans is a hoax. http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Tb7vTamY

This post has been edited by ☞Tomber☜: Aug 30 2010, 11:15 AM

Oh and by the way I think global warming due to humans is a hoax. http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Tb7vTamY

I really really hope you're joking....

Not to derail your thread but I wasn't joking. A few years ago many scientists claimed it was global cooling going on, which as is the case today, was sensationalized by the media[1]. Scientists on the side of global warming seem to be very harsh in not accepting other possibilities[2]. Also we are coming out of a mini ice age, which also happened for a while during the medieval warm period[3]. This was indisputably correlated to a period of economic stimulation, and arguably prompted it[4]. Relatively massive fluctuations in global environments has happened many times before us and our hated SUVs[5]. Temperature directly effects the level of CO2 in the air, not the other way around as is commonly believed and stated[6,7]. There are many fiscal reasons to continue to support a condition of urgency that are furthered by the media and scientific and political groups despite the fact that "internal global climate-system variability accounts for at least 80%of the observed global climate variation over the past half-century."[8] Ultimately the theory of human causation of global warming does not hold true to the sensationalized level generally stated and the focus should be on maintaining livable conditions, even though that is not necessary at all since the world is already correcting the problems which it created.[from 3.30 to end of video clip,9]

This post has been edited by ☞Tomber☜: Aug 30 2010, 09:28 PM

Not to derail your thread but I wasn't joking. A few years ago many scientists claimed it was global cooling going on, which as is the case today, was sensationalized by the media[1]. Scientists on the side of global warming seem to be very harsh in not accepting other possibilities[2]. Also we are coming out of a mini ice age, which also happened for a while during the medieval warm period[3]. This was indisputably correlated to a period of economic stimulation, and arguably prompted it[4]. Relatively massive fluctuations in global environments has happened many times before us and our hated SUVs[5]. Temperature directly effects the level of CO2 in the air, not the other way around as is commonly believed and stated[6,7]. There are many fiscal reasons to continue to support a condition of urgency that are furthered by the media and scientific and political groups despite the fact that "internal global climate-system variability accounts for at least 80%of the observed global climate variation over the past half-century."[8] Ultimately the theory of human causation of global warming does not hold true to the sensationalized level generally stated and the focus should be on maintaining livable conditions, even though that is not necessary at all since the world is already correcting the problems which it created.[from 3.30 to end of video clip,9]

MUHAHAHA! I think you just killed the opposition.

What makes you think we're not doing anything. The flood in Taiwan didn't end up killing me last summer.

This post has been edited by kaboom13: Aug 30 2010, 10:24 PM

Not to derail your thread but I wasn't joking. A few years ago many scientists claimed it was global cooling going on, which as is the case today, was sensationalized by the media[1]. Scientists on the side of global warming seem to be very harsh in not accepting other possibilities[2]. Also we are coming out of a mini ice age, which also happened for a while during the medieval warm period[3]. This was indisputably correlated to a period of economic stimulation, and arguably prompted it[4]. Relatively massive fluctuations in global environments has happened many times before us and our hated SUVs[5]. Temperature directly effects the level of CO2 in the air, not the other way around as is commonly believed and stated[6,7]. There are many fiscal reasons to continue to support a condition of urgency that are furthered by the media and scientific and political groups despite the fact that "internal global climate-system variability accounts for at least 80%of the observed global climate variation over the past half-century."[8] Ultimately the theory of human causation of global warming does not hold true to the sensationalized level generally stated and the focus should be on maintaining livable conditions, even though that is not necessary at all since the world is already correcting the problems which it created.[from 3.30 to end of video clip,9]

Alright, here we go.

Human-caused global warming is made by the release of carbon into the atmosphere, which creates a carbon layer in the ozone which prevents the heat caused by the sun's rays from leaving our atmosphere in the correct amounts once it enters. Additionally, that carbon fuses with other gases and rains down as carbolic acid; what we call "acid rain." Despite what you think, it is indisputably scientifically proven that we contribute to global warming in a huge way, but the hillfolk and Dick Cheney have decided that being a ass-backwards mule is a substitute for logic, so many people don't know about it. Whether or not ice ages and warm ages have happened before, we're making them happen faster and it's not allowing organisms to adapt to the changing temperature. Global warming is not man-made, but we've sped it up exponentially and that's the issue.

Not that ANY of this has to do with the thread... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/offtopic.gif)

Well after taking this off topic I kinda should help bring it back. About the organization I would join one with no commitments if it would be mutually beneficial. Such as people helping me astral travel specifically since that may work despite distance. I would contribute some genuine time on focusing or whatever if that could happen.

This post has been edited by ☞Tomber☜: Aug 31 2010, 04:04 PM

Well after taking this off topic I kinda should help bring it back. About the organization I would join one with no commitments if it would be mutually beneficial. Such as people helping me astral travel specifically since that may work despite distance. I would contribute some genuine time on focusing or whatever if that could happen.

Well Astral is NOT my specialty, but if enough people join we'll find someone who's good at it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) There would be no time constraint, people would come and go as they pleased.

Another disaster in the gulf today, and now I read the following article as well:

Mass Extinction Threat: Earth on Verge of Huge Reset Button?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/201009...hugeresetbutton

Things don't look good on planet earth at all...better get started!

Not sure how bothered i am about climate-change, the weather interests me greatly, i just don't think i would be willing to act on such a small part to the picture.
Honestly, the evidence either way is shoddy, it could easily be another media power trap.
I'm far more concerned with social reform, better education, legalizing drugs etc..

Equalizing rights between major religions an spiritual community's?

I'd probably join a group that focused on establishing rights for trees+animals, i'm quite a hippy like that,
I've known many a great an wise tree an people are rather ignorant of how intelligent they get.
Under certain circumstances I'd probably kill to save a tree.

I would definitely want to start an Organization, an it can start by organizing my room, an my finances an then maybe organizing a threesome.

The problem that I have with organizations, or any group for that matter, is that the organization in question will inevitably operate at the lowest common denominator. This may or may not be what you want, as power struggles, ego trippers, etc. are inevitable in any large organization.

I'd rather just do as much as I can on my own, get stuck, exchange information/tips with someone else who's been there, then be on my merry way. *shrug*

As for environmental degradation--the earth will survive. Mass extinctions and climate change have happened before and they will again. *WE*, however, may not survive our own mistakes. Keep this in mind--in about 7 billion years, the sun will exhaust the last of its hydrogen and begin fusing helium. Then it will expand into a red giant, incinerating the earth in the process. A few billion years after that, the sun will collapse into a dead white or red dwarf. In 6 billion years when the hydrogen in the sun runs begins to run low but it's not low enough to start the red giant stage, life on earth will be as different from us as we are from bacteria. It's something to think about...

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Sep 3 2010, 07:30 AM

There already is a movement going on...and it is incredible.

People are waking up...en masse.

The old world is dieing and a new one is being born.

People used to worry about falling off the flat earth, as though all of our buildings were just hors d'ouevres on a tray fit for Titans. If they knew how many people lived in China, they might have argued for more people moving to France just to avoid tipping the balance and dumping civilization into the void.

The amount of carbon and numerous poisons thrown out by one modest volcanic eruption dwarfs the entire output of industrial civilization. I'm definitely all in favor of a higher level of ecological stability in commerce and industry, but I'm not going to be worried about Global Warming. If anything, it will create more rain for this desert where I live and thus save me the water bills for my lawn.

I strongly suspect that the current reduction of first-rate industry is fueled by an attempt to provide a slight competitive advantage for developing countries, since so much of our production depends on their labor and infrastructure.

The original EPA was designed as a way to arbitrate between industrial producers and the legal interests of physicians, developers, and others who might be upset about the presence of pollution and poisons. Keep in mind that the existence of the EPA allowed a lot of people to make a vast amount of money by demanding that everyone else abide regulations they supervise or suggest.

What specific problems would you choose as a focus for your EPA?
What would be the benefit for those involved?
What support would you choose?

I'm not interested in aiming a vague opposition at Global Warming.
I'm mildly disinterested in anything that does not require real commitment from myself and the others involved.
I'm all in favor of using magic in an organized way to accomplish that which money and power cannot.

People used to worry about falling off the flat earth, as though all of our buildings were just hors d'ouevres on a tray fit for Titans. If they knew how many people lived in China, they might have argued for more people moving to France just to avoid tipping the balance and dumping civilization into the void.

The amount of carbon and numerous poisons thrown out by one modest volcanic eruption dwarfs the entire output of industrial civilization. I'm definitely all in favor of a higher level of ecological stability in commerce and industry, but I'm not going to be worried about Global Warming. If anything, it will create more rain for this desert where I live and thus save me the water bills for my lawn.

I strongly suspect that the current reduction of first-rate industry is fueled by an attempt to provide a slight competitive advantage for developing countries, since so much of our production depends on their labor and infrastructure.

The original EPA was designed as a way to arbitrate between industrial producers and the legal interests of physicians, developers, and others who might be upset about the presence of pollution and poisons. Keep in mind that the existence of the EPA allowed a lot of people to make a vast amount of money by demanding that everyone else abide regulations they supervise or suggest.

What specific problems would you choose as a focus for your EPA?
What would be the benefit for those involved?
What support would you choose?

I'm not interested in aiming a vague opposition at Global Warming.
I'm mildly disinterested in anything that does not require real commitment from myself and the others involved.
I'm all in favor of using magic in an organized way to accomplish that which money and power cannot.

Alright so apparently global warming is of no concern to you people - who cares if DC, NYC and LA all sink beneath the ocean, you get free lawn care!!! And best of all, since you're not checking your greenhouse gas fumes it's going to be raining carbolic acid!!! Well isn't that just peachy?! Now you can forget the water bill, you just have to pay for pH balancers!! No biggie... But since this seems to irrevocably be the case despite the lack in logic (a volcanic eruption does emit more CO2, but the environment is equipped to deal with volcanic eruptions - not volcanic eruptions AND industry. Additionally, volcanic eruptions happen so rarely that it's hardly even significant).

I would probably form divisions and put a head at each division to make a council of sorts - one to head global warming, one to head weather control, one to regulate ecosystems, one to regulate aquatic pollution and another to harry people committing vile acts against nature (HARRY, not kill or harm). Something like that. Haven't quite got that far, I'd need enough people first.

Hmmm... a healthy planet with significantly less of an environmental problem would probably be up there... practicing your magick never hurts... and you can be vindictive towards BP (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I wouldn't facilitate a payment system or something, but the group itself would provide the above things. I'd also set up a method of communication for the people involved in the group so that they can contact each other - so Tomber can learn his Astral Projection, I can learn my Candle Magick, etc. In short, knowledge, experience and a healthy planet.

Explain what you mean by what support? I don't quite grasp the question.

It would require a commitment to do stuff, I just wouldn't say "if you join you have to be active from this time to this time and you have to join for this amount of time and contribute this much." The "department heads" would get their cases and then spread them out as they saw fit according to the strengths and weaknesses of the people in their sections.

It's a magickal government!!!!

Which led me to more ideas.

Once I have the initial department heads, we'll draw up a sort of group constitution and find impartial people who aren't a part of the active group who we run controversial things by to make sure they're not against said constitution - they're our supreme court. All of the members as a whole excluding the department heads can make up "congress" - the legislative branch. It's the US government without a president and all about magick, put simply.

So, this never addressed the question. Is anyone interested?? Yes/no???

And how do you know that such a thing does not presently exist?

You're not the first person to get a bunch of people together to do magic for the good of the planet. And who knows, perhaps we'd be worse off without them.

Although, perhaps apparently random natural disasters of such a magnificent scale as we have seen lately are also the inadvertent result of said 'well intentioned' magic.

Or, perhaps the earth is a tidy system slowly cleansing itself of the infection.

If your own body's bacteria gets out of control, you will get sick - on the other hand, if you killed it all off, you'd get sick. There's a balance in there somewhere and your body maintains it. Get it?

And, what about establishing some baseline integrity for the involved practitioners? Anyone with a passing interest in magic? Anyone who wrongly believes that your magical EPA has occult secrets no other order has?

I attempt to make a minimal impact on the environment. Applying magic to this scale is not the most efficient use of the tool. Making yourself heard, acquiring a greater understanding and wisdom regarding exactly where to apply pressure to the system, crafting yourself into the kind of person who can be a mover and shaker, is a better path, for more longstanding change. If you don't like the way things are, then work hard to make yourself into the kind of person that can do something about it. Trying to solve these issues with common magic is, frankly, reflective of a desire for instant gratification - which isn't wrong, but comes paired with the lack of patience or resolve to become the kind of heavy hitter that can make things happen in a real and longterm way.

Use magic to get to the top, by all means, charm, curse, and bless your way there. Do magic from the top to get what you want done with little resistance. Less than that and one is unrealistic and not really passionate enough anyway.

I say, no, not just now. And to be entirely honest, I do not think you are qualified to take part in such a thing anyway. And we certainly don't need more shadow government. Keep caring though, hopefully that passion and creativity will carry you to the top.

peace

And to be entirely honest, I do not think you are qualified to take part in such a thing anyway.

Thanks for that.... because you definitely know me.

ok yeah i read this thread, and to tell you the truth i think vagrant dreamer made a really good point. besides, magic will do nothing for you if you do not pursue a physical actualization of it. magic, for me, has never allowed for laziness. ok guys, whose up for being a world cop AND a couch potato? not happening. we can chant all we like, but until we put the PHYSICAL effort into bettering our world there will be no resolution.
On another note, think about it...there will ALWAYS be chaos. It is part of life. If we didn't have chaos we wouldn't have life. If we didn't have chaos the entirety of our existence would be a flat no-dimension line that went on into eternity. Chaos is not always a bad thing. Of course we should strive for what we think is right...but there are too many disagreements (in our motives and ideals) amongst the lot of us for such a plan to go off without a hitch. As a secular whole, I doubt even with the best intentions, we could maintain the integrity and the [b]purity that would be needed to make a lasting and happy influence.
I do not think condemning us 'people' for worrying about our water bills in the face of economic crisis, and because of that accusing us of taking a backseat to global crisis, is appropriate. We SHOULD be worried about our water bills. What is wrong with serving one's greater good as long as it does not hurt the general whole? What is wrong with hoping that one's comfortable and healthy lifestyle is the product of the general whole's advancement in greener technology and marketing trends? I think its a pretty sensible and down to earth approach. Your approach however, in lu of reading the 'hypocrite' post, does not seem grounded at all. Learn to take some heat and then maybe I'll be interested in your 'making a difference' talk.

Thanks for that.... because you definitely know me.

If I told you that you were not qualified to be a surgeon, would you take the same kind of offense?

You're young and not experienced with large groups, you harbor an as yet naive idealism - note, not just idealism, but naive idealism, not yet tested and tempered by life - and although I believe that your interest in magic is genuine, so far you've demonstrated (on this forum) that you have an immature grasp of what magic is and what you are capable of. Give it time and you will mature to a better position if your intention is to become a wise, intelligent, and powerful individual; it will unfold naturally as you encounter life with those intentions intact.

Do I know you personally? No, I have not met you and haven't watched you live life day to day. I guarantee that you are not a unique snowflake though. Thus far what you have shown is that you are a fairly typical teenage young man with a lot of ambition but not a whole lot of practicality.

Older and wiser is a line that I hated hearing when I was your age. If I was as wise then as I am now, or as much as I will be in another decade, I would have dealt with criticism better myself. You want to do big things, then you need direction, and you need a reality check, and that's all I was offering, not a personal judgement on your worth. You don't need to give a rat's whisker about about anyone else's estimation of your worth - and I'm sure, by your reaction, that such judgement doesn't phase you at all, yes?

peace