powers of subconcious, concept of god and demons Options

Hi all,
there's something quite interesting that has been in my mind since recent times,especially after having read a lot of items..
Do the Gods/Demons etc that one summons by evocation rituals/sadhanas(mantras)/prayer etc really exist or instead are they the manifestation of the power of the mind....
Like for example if you recite a mantra to call a deity,isnt it that you are telling your subconsious what you need.. the subconsious then with the help of the powers given to mankind by the "ultimate source" creates the deity and you get to master the powers that you request for???

Some points to support this:
1)Normally the deity comes in the form that you visualise and pray(created by the mind)!!!
2)there are also entities that never existed but which someone can create himself according to his mind
3)Different religions have different Gods that they pray and they have different theories on the creation of universe or planet earth itself... There cant be various ways by which the world was created but still all god in the various religions can be evoked!!!! Can it finally come to the point that it is eventually the determination and power of the human mind itself who creates all???
4)Lots is said on Gods/demons/angels/ etc who have their roles on mankind's evolution, like Gods are here to help those who are in need etc etc, but still theres lots of crimes and most unimaginable ones that get committed without any interference.... But in some cases, we can say that miracles occur and people are saved by Jesus or any other entity.... However cant it be just the all is in the power of the human mind??? if someone is being agressed, his mind can be in such a state to create a being to save him and that being will be in the form of a savior e.g Jesus/ archangel Michael.... Even in a evocation, if someone calls a spirit, the manifestation of the spirit also depends on the power of mind of the person... I think that a person with a powerful mind will be able to see the spirit and a less powerful one will be only able to feel the presence or hear it...


Well, all this is a derivation of my mind and need not be true... But still if anyone finds this thread interesting, please do reply to it with your views and what you believe to be true...

as a frnd here recently told:
I am God and God is me; I am Satan and Satan is me...

In Why God Won't Go Away, released April 1 by Ballantine Books, co-author Andrew B. Newberg, MD, explains his theory that the human brain is hard-wired for religion. Just as the mind has the capacity for analytical thought, abstract mathematical reasoning, and invention of highly sophisticated technology, it also has the capacity -- and the built-in design -- to experience God.

Quoted from Is God a State of Mind?

I have had three ideas over time about what the entities I encounter are:

a) entirely constructed by my own mind
b) images I have picked up telepathically from someone else’s mind
c) my mind making sense of vibratory patterns picked up from other realms of existence

If they are entirely constructed by my own mind, it would not explain the sudden appearance of my dragon, who had been sent to me and also the fact that I did not know it was a dragon at the time.

There is the possibility that my Bob had created the image in his mind of the dragon he wanted to send and I picked it up telepathically though.

The mind picking up information from another realm of existence or vibratory current is also viable to me as there is so much variety in the world and new things are discovered all of the time, that for me, it seems that it will only be a matter of time before it is discovered that there are these other realms.

Basically, I don’t believe these things are entirely constructed in the mind since that does not account for mediumship where contact is made with deceased relatives, friends and animals.

It is possible that our mind fills in the blanks as we pick up things that don’t make ordinary sense to us too, so I think it is likely to be a mix of the telepathy and connection to other currents.

Greetings!
An interesting book that talks of these things is P.E.I.Bonewits, "Real Magic". I highly recommend it! It expounds on the Theory of the Collective Unconcious which encompasses what you're talking of. Non-human entities overlap our human unconciousness in many different areas. IMO (in my opinion) we all interact through a series of 'filters' which we construct ourselves. Sort of the 'Tower of Babel' thing. Pure telepathic communication overiding the system. I'm blathering now, with inarticulation, and henceforth, I'll shutup! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Its easier to look at fellow humans first.

Do you exist as a manifestation of my mind, or do you really exist?

Most would agree that you really exist outside of my mind, and that you are in effect an entity on your own. I will agree to that to, because it seems most logical.

But then, what do i know about you? What i see and know about you is myself. It is inside my own mind that i deal with you. Your characteristics exist inside my mind, and may not be the same as your true self. Still, i may deal with you on these forums, even i was completely wrong about my personal manifestation about you.

The same can be said of gods and entities. I believe they exist as both manifestations and as single entities at the same time. It is impossible to evoke a deity without first generating a manifestation inside your mind. And it is impossible to generate a manifestation without evoking a deity.

Especially the second rule may seem strange. What about egregores, and servitors. Well, upon manifestating them they begin to exist in real life. Then both the manifestation and the real servitor exist and we are back to the above paragraph.

In the end as we are all the same, I am god, I am satan, I am you. we are just summoning or evoking ourselves, as a single deity. That is why it works so well. The more you realise this, the more you are able to accomplish in terms of evoking.

You can see it as the consious evoking parts of the subconsiosu of the subconsious. A level deeper even... That level truly does exist as seperate from us, and at a deeper level it becomes even denser, until it all boils down to one source, where we all are more or less the same. This is called Kether on the tree of life, tao in taoism, enlightenment, etc...

So all your ideas where true at the same time.

I feel it is possible to fool the mind into accepting that a deity has been summoned certainly . In our alchemy circle a deity is humbly invoked and we see and hear it concurrently . We learn their energy signatures , we confirm what they say with esoteric texts and in time learn to trust what is revealed to us that we cannot confirm in existing texts . If we all see and hear the same communications why should we hold it suspect any more than what we see and hear on the earthly plane ?

If we all see and hear the same communications why should we hold it suspect any more than what we see and hear on the earthly plane ?

Yes compared with some of the lies and corruption we hear on the earth plane, why indeed should we doubt their existence.

Excellent post Aunt Clair, so well put. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ac42.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/starspin.gif)

Has anyone here heard of the observer-created universe?
My understanding of this so far, is that we each created the universe, and everything in it, but are unaware of the vastness and omniscience of our own being.
This idea, to me at least, explains the general concept of 'All is one', found in many of the spiritual scriptures, and also gives each of us automatic equal status in the general scheme of things.
I did experience this state of consciousness in most of my past altered states, and now it has become a part of my general way of seeing the universe.
At present, I can see no reason to change my views on this, but it is a belief and can be changed at any time.
I would strongly recommend people read 'The book of pleasure' by Austin Osman Spare for a more comprehensive explanation of this idea.
Even if it isn't the correct view, it does offer an interesting and plausible alternative to other ideas.
Taken to it's logical conclusion, it can imply some very disturbing ideas about the true nature of the Self.
Freaked me out no end, but now I've eventually got used to it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/922.gif)

This post has been edited by Sicksicksicks: Mar 28 2006, 07:06 PM

I honestly am not certain that what I perceive as other people are not merely subconscious aspects of my mind reflecting variations of my character.

That I am not certain about that does not mean I am certain that what I perceive as other people merely are subconscious aspects of my mind reflecting variations of my character.

I also honestly am not certain that what I perceive as the external world is not the totality of my subconsciousness – complementarily compared to what I conceive as the internal world (which would then be the totality of my consciousness.)

That I am not certain about that does not mean I am certain that what I perceive as the external world is not the totality of my subconsciousness – complementarily compared to what I conceive as the internal world (which would then be the totality of my consciousness.)

However: I currently find that not considering the external world as my subconsciousness, and not considering other people as aspects of my subconsciousness, to be very useful for daily living.

I'm surprised that some Chaos magicians haven't posted to discuss their using Mickey Mouse as a deity, or some other popular fictional creation. I recall one acquaintance who worshipped Superman as a deity. Another is a member of a faery tradition and worship the elves from Tolkien's Lord of the Ring. I haven't done this personally but imagine that it would work.
Some people believe that the gods and goddesses are entirely created by the worship of mankind. Other deities were probably based upon historical characters and cultural heroes. Some people believe that deities are based on archtypes as mentioned. Still other deities seem to be explanations and deifications of forces and phenomens of nature such as wind, rain, death, sping, fertiltity, etc.
I don't have any neat answers, although I enjoy the speculation. All that I can say is that encounters with deities that I have had have shown them to have definite personalities. They have seemed very real to me, not something dredged up from my subconscious.

They have seemed very real to me, not something dredged up from my subconscious.

So - are you saying that whatever is in your subconscious is not real to you?

real / unreal - the meanings these terms reference definitely seems to depend upon the perspective used.