Legalize?, where do you stand? Options

Laws concerning harder drugs are unaffected though and it is still illegal to grow or sell large amounts of weed. We still have the same problems with crack and opiates. I'm told that there are about 20,000 addicts in my city which has a population of 500,000. There is still plenty of work for the cops.

I live on the outskirts of two cities with a combined population of about 180,000. Proportionally I'd imagine we have as many addicts as your city. It is a problem. My friends solution is to legalize all drugs then make and sell permits to people without fellony records. Anybody else have any other ideas to share? I'll add a few more thoughts on the war on terror but I'm starving for a cheeseburger and beer with a joint too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Greetings Acid09,

I am with president Clinton. Lets go the Amsterdam way ; legalize marijuana and tax it. After all everything boils down to money. For those against legalization its ok to follow in the footsteps of our former president and not inhale!

I most definitely agree with something along the lines of what acid09's friend proposes.

I'm not sure if I agree with my buddy's idea or not. There are some strong points to both sides of the argument. My main concern is that legalizing all or some drugs would just mean it would be that much easier for minors to get drugs and that much more likely that people in general would just miss use them and be reckless. Both of these reasons are why drugs are illegal in the first place, plus the moral philosophy that it is not right to use drugs recreationally. Also the beuacracy that would be required to manage drug licenses would be expensive. And I don't think its right that the public would have to pay taxes to enable people to use drugs and possibly miss use them as well.

What this is issue is attempting to address and discuss is how to fix our society's current drug problem, both the hypocrisy and the level of crime and violence. We're left with a sort of balancing act trying figure out which philosophy is more justifiable.

One is a more permissive society that allows people to use drugs. The down sides are if drugs are legal, even just some like pot, we create a society that will be far more prone to negative drug related issues. -Work accidents, over doses, traffic accidents, a possible increase in the number of drug addicts and the cost to medicare/social security to pay for their methadone, other medicines and rehab. More drugs available to families can impact how some raise their kids as we know most addicts do not make very good parents.

The other is a society that restricts what people can use for recreational drugs. The down sides are if we maintain that all the drugs currently illegal should remain so we deny people the liberty to choose what they can and cannot put into their bodies. And those who choose to use illegal drugs anyways become criminals. Plus those who get the illegal products in this country and those who sell them are also criminals. This liberty seems to be a pretty American thing. Yet society seems to think that this liberty is limited to only certain drugs - mainly caffine, alcohol and tobacco.

Our society as it currently stands is actually somewhat a combination of the two philosophies. We legislate that some drugs are illegal and some are only available with prescriptions and some are available to people of a certain age. Alcohol and tobacco remain mostly legal because society does not think its taboo to use these. Morality seems to be a big reason why certain drugs remain illegal. If the right wing had its way all drugs would be illegal and if the left wing had its way all drugs would be legal. And the majority, who are mostly moderates seem to think that is ok to use certain drugs recreationally. Now in our modern day and age we have new recreational drugs - viagra, pills for penis and breast augmentation, pills to enhance sex and pills to provideivide energy. The reason these drugs are legal is because they do not create the "social havoc" that others do. They are perpetuated as being "safe". I know, personally, that this is not true. Some of the legal drugs out there can be just as dangerous as the illegal ones.

If you've read this far you should be able to see where society contradicts itself. Society says that using certain drugs recreationally is not good and causes problems thus society deals with the issue by making them illegal. This impacts everybody. Nobody is suppose to be above the law and so the minority, those who choose not to obey the law, are made into criminals. But wait a minute! - Society at the same time says its ok to use certain drugs recreationally! In any democratic society the majority of the population decides the laws. Yet in order for society to be democratic, minority *rights and liberties* must be respected. This means that a majority cannot make racist, sexist or otherwise discriminatory laws that restrict rights and liberties. And yet the minority who choose to use certain drugs are deemed criminals by the laws made by the majority. If it is a person's right to choose what drugs they use or even what chemicals they put into their bodies (like fast food) then it should be their liberty to do so responsibly and without prejudice.

It would seem that legalizing drugs all together then would be the appropriate measure to take. Yet the reason certain drugs are made illegal is because they cause other problems. For example: violence and crime, the break down of families who have to deal with addicts, the impact on society to pay for government funded rehab, half way homes and homeless shelters. Society is further burdened by paying for the justice system that has to deal with drug related crimes. Certainly if people who used drugs were no longer criminals that would aleviate some of the strain on the justice system. It would also mean there would likely be an increase in other drug related crimes as more people begin to use. Of course this assumes that if drugs were made legal that more people would use them. It is equally possible legalizing drugs would not really mean more people would use and commit crimes. Since we cannot see the future we cannot prove legalizing drugs would cause an increase in drug users or how this would affect our society's crime rate, other than responsible drug users are no longer criminals.

The question becomes how do we find a happy medium in a society that both wants to control the recreational use of certain drugs through legislation while allowing the legal use of others. And that is where the notion of permitting the use of illegal drugs under the restriction of first having a license to use them. The attempt of the idea is provide a way to reduce the number of criminals bogging down our justice system, reduce the income that terrorist organizations make off illegal drugs, legalize the research into the use of illegal drugs, give the government another source to tax, and allow people a way to use the liberty to choose what they put into their bodies.

While I am not personally sure if I agree with the idea of drug licenses, for the reasons already mentioned, it is at least an attempt to address and solve some major issues in society. And I have yet to think of any better idea.

This is very simplistic but it cant be avoided on an internet forum. This issue gets to the very root of some of the most important questions being faced by society and therefore by philosophers, scoiologists, politicians, businesses, "everyday" paople, and everyone. Though not all people are asking these questions, all are being affected by the current attemps of those who do ask to answer them. There are many, but some i feel you have touched on are:

Why does the so called "left" and the so called "right" feel the way they do? What are their motivations for advocating a certain path?

This in turn leads to our next series of questions which are interrelated:

What constitutes a moderate? What are the motivations behind moderatism (i am reluctant as many are to use the word moderation here)? From what areas of society do the majority of "right" "left" and "moderates" hail? Are the philosophies and opinions of the members of each of these "factions" based on self devised, logical, and independant education and research, or is it the result of word of mouth, or of popular "opinion"? How does the sources of opinion on matters differ across the population of each "faction? Do people in leaderships sources of opinion differ fom those of commercial members, or that of "worker" members? How does a members economic situation affect their ability to form opinions? And so on and so on.....

I watched a doco lately on "opinions" in america, where they asked people individually to rate their feelings on certain topics from one to ten. Like "women should have the right to choose abortion" - the 1 was strongly agree and 10 was strongly disagree. Then the people were put into groups of 10 or so, and the group had to discuss the topic and come to a unanimous consensus, and pick one number that they would all agree was the group "rating" between 1 and 10 (the groups involved people whose answers occurred in the same range 1-3 4-6 or 7-10). In each case the opinions all became ore "extreme" in the group. The 1-3 would usually settle on a 1 (even though most of the members of this group had individually picked a 2 or a 3), the 7-10s usually settled for 10, and the 4-6s usually settled for a 5. in most cases it was found that the most educaed on the topic, usualy had the most extreme views, 1s 10s and 5s, and that these were the people who had the most influence on the consensual group decision. Interesting.

I think you also need to add to a simplistic assesment of the drug issue the ramifications that are apparent in terms of the legal drug industry, the health and community services industry, and the arms and weapons industries. To leave this out of a summing up of the "situation" as it is, is futile. Its like predicting the outcome of a sports match after only assesing the abilities of two players, despte the fact that there are 10 on the field.

I think if we legalize drugs under the premise that in order to lawfully use them one must have a license to do so we would be changing the playing field in a way that would affect the other players. In order to really get this idea to work soceity would have to choose to accept that it is ok to use drugs recreationally. Left, right or moderate it doesn't matter if the majority of the population agrees this is a feesible way to solve the drug problem.

Yea i agree with you. I just think before we as a society really decide yay or nay to legalizationl despite whether this will actually happen or not we would benefit from some public and collective contemplation of some of the questions i raised and the many others that are connected to this issue. For most of us around our age, whos opinions are just starting to be taken seriously and listened to by the powers that be, if only as a source of inspiration for spin doctors, we were born into this world with in the western world at least, a set of systems, mechanisms, taboos and an overall culture and society that is despite its contrived and apparent fluidity, was either concretely fixed in, or at least unavoidably and perceivably moving towards a situation which is pretty much the same as the one we find ourselves in now. We as a generation of children were taught that things were the way they were for good reason, and despite the odd "radical" parent here or their, or the odd "cool" teacher at school, no matter what these rare voices whispered into our fragile and enthusiastic young ears, the concreteness of the reality we were confronted with carried a weight that was impossible to ignore. It was difficult to question aspects of our society that although may not have been universally accepted, were universally practiced by the powers that be, and of which the consequences of rebellion against are still undesirable and even scary to the greatest of adults.

Now this was all done we are told with the greatest of intentions, and one side of the coin tells s that this is true. We are constantly bombarded with the images of the negative results of the aspects of our society which are deemed to be criminal. Yet in this we are consistantly deprived of the other side of the coin, the humanity of these "criminals". Im not saying that some or most or all or none of the so called unwanted "types" are or are not predisposed to this unhealthy behaviour, and that if they didnt have the childhoods they had they might not have turned out like this, or that if society was structured differently their childhoods may not have been this way, or even that any of them had anything but the best of upbringings. What i am admonishing people and myself to do is to use our brains for ourselves. Not to accept and be reliant upon the answers that have been past down to us institutionally, socially, genealogically, and culturally. I dont want the element of what i am saying here to be restricted to concepts of "law" and "criminality" either, but to all factes of society. I am not saying that we should turn this thread into some full blown evaluation of what has and is being handed down to us in the form of a society, but i am asking that we do in considering individual questions like this, whos implications are so far reaching into many facets of our society. That we avoid putting our blinkers on to these necessary considerations. I personally believe that we as people should be collectively evaluating the merrits ofthe current structure of our society, in all its many aspects, but i concede that the legalize thread of the sacred-magick forum is not the place to centralise this evaluation, but to reiterrate; that i think that we should kep this kind of evaluation at the back of our minds in answering specific questions such as the ones being asked here.

I dont know what is best in terms of drug problems. There is a mountain of academic research which supports every side of this argument, people keep getting grants, and a lot of speculation and theorising occurs, buit little is really being done. I think this issue does pose one of the greatest problems for our current society globally, and i also believe that it is one of the more obvious symptoms of a system and society that is screaming out for reform. I know junkies personally who are realy good people, who work 9-5 jobs, and who are spiritually stong enough to fool everyone around them who is normal into thinking that they are the same. I also meet through my work junkies who are thieves and liars and violent and teriible people, but even these are very rarely "bad" people. Some have killed and continue to steal and make poor choices, but most of them turn themselves inside out with guilt and anguish which forces them to want to use more drugs; most of them are still intrinsically "good". They hate what they do, but they cant stop. Maybe you or i could. I myself though am in no position to judge.

Will legalizing drugs or changing our society help these people or encure that less and less people become like them. I dont know. But i know the current situation does not work. The evidence of this is everywhere. No matter where the blame lies, the results are the same. I would rather be part of a society that is adaptable and tries new things and does what it takes to improve itself. Rather than being one that accepts its defeats, and just keeps plugging away at the same tired old approaches, because "do you know how much work it would take to change things on such a fundamental scale", "it is not possible to achieve that", "what you propose is communism". I am retracting all previous proposals, i am not proposing anything other than serious considertion. Asking questions, taking everything into account, educating ourselves and eachother. Having the gall to make the effort as individuals that is required to make an effort as a collective. Taking real responsibility for ourselves in every word and action and decision we make. Having the guts to avoid thinking "this is too big", "i just want to take care of me and have a good and enjoyable life", and to realise that the best way to care for ourselves and in turn those effected by the question of legalisation, and to ensure for ourselves a truly "good and enjoyable life" is to be "too big". To go "above and beyond".

f%*! left, f%*! right, and f%*! the middle. Be yourself by being true to yourself. Dont sell yourself short. Go listen to tony robbins and cypress hill. Make up your own mind, but not by reading the blurb on the back of the cover. Read all the books and write your own. Dance with the girl on the computer at the library. Fall off a bike, and paint a letterbox. Do what you want i dont care whatever. Just have fun and take care of yourself and others. And please try to stick to the topic!!!!!!

Drug prohibition does'nt stop people from taking drugs it only makes it harder, more expensive, and more dangerous for people to take drugs.

Prohibition puts drugs in the hands of gangsters and scumbags rather than coffeeshop and headshop owners like amsterdam. If drugs were made legal people would be fined or arrested for not paying theyre tabs rather than killed or have their legs broken.

Also if drugs were made legal they would be produced by legitamate chemists rather than backyard chemists who dont really give two shits what goes into their products.

Funnily enough the only drug that is legal happens to be one of the most dangerous and destructive out of them all but does that mean they should make alcohol illegal?? No if people want to destroy their lives with alcohol its their own choice but unfortunately alcoholics not only kill themselves but people around them too with their reckless driving.

I think people should be allowed to use all and every drugs as long as they dont endanger the lives of people around them. If people want to intoxicate themselves they have every right. No government has the right to tell people what they can and cannot put into their bodies.

Also if drugs were made legal they would be produced by legitamate chemists rather than backyard chemists who dont really give two shits what goes into their products.

Just to throw in a little tib bit - Aside from the meth that comes from the many thousands of "Ma & Pa" cooks out there its not how the meth is made but what its cut with that make it even more dangerous. The meth that comes in from Mexico is mass produced in big ole labratories by "expert" (people who know more than your average joe) chemist that make the drug 99% pure. Once its smuggled enmass then its distributed to lower street dealers (base heads) who cut the product and sell it. Now what these people cut their drugs with can be even worse for you than the drug alone.

I think people should be allowed to use all and every drugs as long as they dont endanger the lives of people around them. If people want to intoxicate themselves they have every right. No government has the right to tell people what they can and cannot put into their bodies.

This seems to be what many Americans believe as well. Yet it also seems the majority still thinks that certain drugs should be left illegal. We have drugs that are legal and deemed ok to use and drugs that are not. It seems to be ok to use drugs that reduce suffering and so we have any number of cold and pain pills. It seems to be ok to use drugs that are "harmless" and can help make you focus and more productive - like caffine. Its ok to take drugs that enhance the body - creatine and legal muscle enhancers or drugs that augment specific areas of the body. Its even ok to use certain drugs for recreation - alcohol, tobacco and salvia divinorum, for example. Yet we remain a drug culture in denial as some drugs are not ok to use for any reason.

Why? Addiction? Caffine, alcohol, certain perscription pills, sleep aids and tobacco all are addictive. Hell you can get addicted to chocolate or sex or video games or porn and on and on its disgusting.

So there must be some other reason. Morals? Its just wrong to take certain drugs? There's a contradiction in this reasoning so obvious I don't need to say it.

Maybe the reason is the image. Drugs that have remained illegal have just remained illegal for so long and the government propaganda has brain washed everybody. Or maybe since they've remained illegal and led to so much crime and human suffering the idea that some of these or ok to use is just not concievable - this is where I am biased about certain drugs. But to suggest that propaganda, crime and human suffering are why these drugs remains illegal I think suggests that the American public is too stupid to see beyond these. While I can't say that people are smart I do no believe they are not that stupid.

So then why do some drugs remain illegal? And the reason I keep comming back to is money. Sure if all drugs were legal then people would no longer be crimminals for possessing or using them. But the justice system anymore is a business. The product they sell to society and individuals who have been victimized by crime is justice. Legalizing all drugs means they loose business. So what if legalizing drugs would reduce the number of cases the justice system has to deal with in the long run they still get their money. Already the courts are over budgeted as it is and the amount of money the system makes off drug related cases might be enough incentive to keep people in Washington from considering legalizing drugs.

Its not just the courts that make money off illegal drugs; the medical industry also makes money through the sale of rehab and other drugs meant to help cure addiction.

And Washington brings me back to my next reason why I think drugs remain illegal - politics. When Regan created this "war on drugs" it was a PR cue meant to gain favor of the public. And so what was created was this giant propaganda machine that demonizing drugs and people who use them. When in fact not everybody who uses drugs are street trash or other wise crimminals. I'd bet the majority of the income made off drugs comes from middle/upper middle class citizens - people who otherwise would be "normal" and not poor homeless junkies. While ideally the American public should be able to read between the lines and see the propaganda for what it is every politicians since has played on the crime and violence caused by the people who use these drugs. Just enough so that the majority of the public still thinks that some drugs should remain illegal.

This post has been edited by Acid09: Dec 1 2006, 05:05 PM

My .02. I think there is an enormous hypocrisy in the States… basically legal/good drugs are those that are taxed (i.e. tobacco, alcohol), the so called “bad” or dangerous drugs are those which the government has no control over the supply and demand. Statistically speaking, the most dangerous drug is alcohol as it is this taxed substance that causes more deaths than any other.

Much to say here. Hmmm well first MJ is no more dangerous than alcohol. The reasons we continue to put these users in jail is stricktly for monitary purpose. Haveing over half of all jail pops in the country be full of pot heads is seriously rediculous. I would rather (any day) deal with someone that is high that i would a drunk any time.
As for other drugs that iput in a category of dangerous but very good learning experiance for the dreamer or mystic is salvia,gymsum weed, and peyote. These and all other drugs in my opinion would be used no more if they were legal than with the way it is now.
Last who the F*$k is any government to tell its people what they can and cannot do? The original constitution allowed for any drug of choice(hell you could at one time bye heroin and needles over the counter) to be used. Now its ammended (broken) and if you are a drug user you are considered to be not in the flock of sheep and robots. a free thinker per say.
If a citizen chooses to be a user of ANY drug they have the right to, no matter the damage it does to themself (the individual knows). Its a Anarchist approach i know but the only real freedoms we have anymore are to watch television and work so Anarchy it is.....Down with homeland security the bane to all freethinkers and peoples of the world.

I'm suprised the government hasn't realized that they could be making a killing if the would legalize drugs like weed. I don't do drugs of any kind so this really doesn't make a difference to me. I am beyond pro for leagalizing it and regulating it. That would solve most our drug dealer problems, and at the same we would stop funding countries that don't give a sh*t. Lets see if we take care of the oil and the drugs.....yeah that should about do it.

My .02. I think there is an enormous hypocrisy in the States… basically legal/good drugs are those that are taxed (i.e. tobacco, alcohol), the so called “bad” or dangerous drugs are those which the government has no control over the supply and demand. Statistically speaking, the most dangerous drug is alcohol as it is this taxed substance that causes more deaths than any other.

Yes. And Alcohol withdrawl is deadly ( I know first hand).

I just dont like the fact the ones who decide what we can do w/ our own bodies are usually hypocritical christian jack asses! Plus it is no business of theirs what we do w/ our own bodies and mind. But we all knwo that drugs are illegal because some of the drugs DO open the mind and DO tend to make folks think twice about all their rhetoric they vomit forth (they=politicians). I say legalize em all--let the hard drugs wipe out the useless and weak! We in out modern society dont address the survival of the fittest--we cater to the pathetic and worthless, because these losers will vote which ever way they are led never to think about their actions. Also these folk are the cattle, nobody likes a thinking person as it pertains to potential voters!

Do you think drugs should be legalized?

Yes. I think all drugs should be legalized. Most people assume that if drugs were legalized, we'd see millions of desperate new addicts roaming the streets. It's an unfounded fear. Alcohol and tobacco are legal, yet the majority of people are not alcoholics and do not smoke. Crack cocaine and marijuana are illegal, yet easily obtained. I think most people know where they could go buy some crack if they wanted it... how many do? In many countries, you can walk into any pharmacy and purchase pain medication with ingredients that are controlled in the USA...in some countries, marijuana and heroin are legal.. Yet the vast majority of citizens of those countries are not crazed drug addicts. Drugs may as well be legal... because there are already readily available. The only thing that would change with legalization are the names on the bank accounts of those who profit from the sales and those who profit from the enforcement of the insane legal system we now have in place.

The war on drugs is big business. Police departments have come to depend on property seizures as a means of income. Prison employees, lawyers, judges, police, etc.. they all depend on the illegality of drugs for employment. Even the people who provide food, clothing and supplies to the prisons.. if there were less prisoners, there'd be less business. Doctors, hospitals, insurance companies and pharmacies.. how much business would they lose if people had the ability to access medication without a permission slip? Illegal and controlled drugs mean big money for a lot of legal business operations.

Do you think "the war on drugs" is really worth it? Please explain your answer.

No. There is no war on drugs. Drugs are easily available on any street corner in any poor neighborhood in the USA. There is a war on the rights of privacy and freedom. There is a war on the freedom against illegal search and seizure.

If you could choose between "the war on terror" or "the war on drugs" which would it be?

Neither. The war on terror is also another red herring. How many of us have ever been the victim of a terror attack? The attack on 9-11 was a horrible thing and I do not mean any disrespect to the victims or relatives of the victims... 3000 people died in that attack. More than 3000 people are killed each year in motorcycle accidents. More than 40,000 people die each year on our highways. 9-11 was one, isolated event... yet look at the government reaction... look at the erosion of personal freedoms and the growth of government agencies since then. There are cameras on every corner. For example - In one small town in the USA, the government granted millions of dollars to install security cameras on every corner. In the year prior to the cameras, there was one crime committed in that town - a purse snatching.. and the guy got caught. Does everyone in that town need to be constantly monitored in "the war on terror"? ..

A problem with people nowadays is they think too damn much without feeling. Look what happens when they act only with their brain without fixing their hearts: The war on terror. They needed to heal their hearts (ideally, maybe, with a spirit jounrey involving some "soul coughing"), but they did not. Where they had their hearts and empathic connections with their people completely severed, they chose to take advantage of the situation for their own gain, a common act of the mind when controlled by a corrupted/tainted/altered heart. They need to relax their minds in order to realize that their hearts are indeed hurting inside.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/insane.gif) "It's a healing herb, man! Fo all'a de nations all'oba da WORLD!"

The war on drugs? Not handled correctly. Anyone who either votes with my rhetoric or just simply with "no" may agree with that. But that aside, I truly believe that although certain drugs have medicinal value, recreational use should still be severely limited. I believe it should be used strictly as a spiritual item, or as a therapy for calming the heart and regaining one's root with the ambivalent pole of the existential reality of the universe.

So, "Don't criticize it....Legalize it!"

"It af to burn! It a gon burn! It a go done!" - Musical Youth, "Pass the Dutchie."

Greetings,

I will have to roll up some train wreck and contemplate this during the super bowl.

Peace everybody!

I don't smoke. I don't drink. I don't take weed. I'm not interested in any hardcore drugs.
I believe marijuana should be legal because tobacco and alcohol are and they both have far more severe health complications.

I don't mind medicine. Medicine's fine. I will take paracetamol without hesistation.

(If your taking weed for medicinal purposes then fine)
But quite frankly I don't care what drugs other people are on. Take whichever drugs you like-it's your body.

Despite this I think everyone should be aware of the consequences of drug use beforehand-people should be educated and there should also be support services readily available.


The War on Terror is the dumbest thing ever.

Dear Mr. President,

Thanks a lot. All you've done is created a global war based on biased assumptions that were made without proof.
There are no weapons of destruction. One American death is not worth more than one Iraqi death.
Saddam Hussein. Evil Guy. Thanks for getting rid of him. Love the fact you did it without any selfish reasons (sarcasm)
I don't care if your country is the most powerful. You still have funny ears and your mean.
Are you quite sure your 'killing the terrorists' or possibly your the terrorist?

Lots of Love.

P.S: And now poor Australia is involved. Did you even consider NZ? DID YOU EVEN CONSIDER THE SHEEP?

EDIT: Grammatical Errors

EDIT: I also don't like it when people make drugs them. I know this guy and it's like "who are you?" and his answer is "I'm just a guy who likes to get stoned"-I mean sure if your going to drugs right fine, but could you maybe not make it your whole life. It's incredibly annoying listening to how sex would be hotter with drugs or how every aspect of life is somehow better with drugs. Some people just don't want to do them. I think. Maybe. I guess it's okay to talk about them heaps...just maybe not all the time?

This post has been edited by Sarena: Jul 4 2007, 11:28 AM

Dear Mr. President,

Thanks a lot. All you've done is created a global war based on biased assumptions that were made without proof.
There are no weapons of destruction. One American death is not worth more than one Iraqi death.
Saddam Hussein. Evil Guy. Thanks for getting rid of him. Love the fact you did it without any selfish reasons (sarcasm)
I don't care if your country is the most powerful. You still have funny ears and your mean.
Are you quite sure your 'killing the terrorists' or possibly your the terrorist?

Lots of Love.

cheers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) who are the terrorist anyways? I say legalize.. don't terrorize.

Any doctor that prescribes smoking (of any substance) as a remedy ought to have his medical certifications called into question.

I believe that the current trend to establish "medical marijuana" is misguided. Regardless of the health impact of smoking, as soon as a few lawsuits come together against the doctors issuing the pot-cards (as in California, Oregon, Alaska, New Mexico), the whole subject will go back to being illegal. When medical marijuana became the trend, most of the big pushes for full legalization were neutered.

Legalization measures tend to be founded on the idea that pot is "not as bad" as other illegal drugs and at least equal to legal substances like alcohol and tobacco; or that it has medicinal value. The only one of these that can be demonstrated in any legal sense is the medical angle, and if it gets shot down so does the entire campaign to legalize pot. The lawyers pressing this program should have stuck to their guns and worked for full and commercial legalization.

In Crescent City, you could walk into a store (marked by a 215 Depot sign, also the growing station) and buy pot the way you buy tylenol. As a citizen with a card, you could grow up to 99 plants in a 10' by 10' enclosure, and many people did. If you drive by town and look off to the hills, you are looking at fields of pot. This was not all used for medical purposes! People would use it for barter, and in such a small town it made up for the lack of cash income among the citizens. Business owners would accept pot as a fair trade, and as a result the local small businesses were suffering for lack of cash. I don't think anyone would trade beer this way, or try to buy a floral arrangement with a carton of cigarettes. I don't think there was ever a serious problem with "reefer madness" there (though methamphetamine remains a problem), but the economic drawbacks of a pothead culture were apparent in such a small town.

Certain drugs (i.e cocaine and heroin) are extremely dangerous and detrimental to te human body. While other drugs like LSD, ecstasy, and marijauna are nonaddictive and have been known to increase spiritual sensativity. I mean, anyone can tell you that alcohol and tobacco have a higher risk than nearly harmless weed.

In regards to the war on drugs, i think it's a waste of the governments (and in turn the tax payer's) money. And , while TRUE war on fundamentaist terror is necessary, the ways the conservative world leaders are carrying it out (the war in Iraq) will get us nowhere.

Which is why i'm voting for Mike Margolin for president

im just amazed that so many people on this site smoke weed.... as well as other things i guess. i guess i shouldn't be surprised since most of america does, but still....

Everything should be legal and people should be left to self regulate. If we do that, the stupid, lame and weak will die off quickly and I won't have to concern myself with going to jail because I went on a murderous rampage and slaughtered whoever's left.

... not that I belong to any political fringe groups, or anything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/face08.gif)

This post has been edited by Kriemhilde: Oct 24 2009, 01:56 AM

Pato Banton best describes my sentiments on the issue. He also addresses some very good, scientifically proven facts.

LOL!
I concur! Pot legality started in this country as a way to subjagate blacks. Now, there is too much involved in people making money (not the common man) to stop this ridiculous ban. The FDA tried to illegalize peach/apricot pitts during the seventies when it was discovered that they contained both Pangamic Acid (B15) and Laetrille (B17), both of which can be used to fight cancer! The drug lobby tried to squelch that because it would eat into their profits. Even TODAY, the drug lobbyists are pushing to make certain herbs and spices CONTROLLED substances!...much for the same reasons! The good that hemp can do is amazing....and not even to talk about its medicinal uses! Hemp seed was a staple in this new world...to be spread far and wide for the cultivation of rope and cloth fibers. Its medicinal uses are legion. Alcohol prohibition didn't work...too many whites had the addiction! Pot is relatively easy to grow. This fact alone, I think, has got the drug lobbyists, the government, etc. panties in a twist because they'd be hard pressed to regulate it! Hell! They're having a hard time now and it is illegal! Your tax money could be best spent elsewhere. And...if you think that we'd be overrun by those horrible pot smokers if they legalized it...you'd be wrong! Those that would, are already using it...it's just not legal! I can not for the life of me understand the banning and illegalization of plants that grow naturally! They only become a problem when we ascribe to them a monetary value, then try to control it. Opium poppies aren't evil. They are still needed in legitimate uses to quell pain. Yet they become labelled as evil because one group of people want to control them/their usage and another group of people want to cultivate them for a cash crop. Like in Afghanistan. The people with the money and the drug manufacturers don't want to destroy the poppy, but to control it. They'd rather see themselves as the source of this drug. Not you. Greed has us in its clutches and is not going to relinquish its grasp, if possible! Now THAT is EVIL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif)

When you think about it, all that the Prohibition of Alcohol (during the 1919 till 1934) did was to enrich organized crime until it grew like a cancer. Prohibition was the biggest mistake domestically that the USA ever made. Legalizing weed wouldn't halt organized crime-- there are still other drugs that would be illegal--but it would cut into their profits. The mafia, Triads, Russian mafia, Hell's Angles, etc. would fight any effort to legalize weed. To me that in itself is a good argument for legalizing it. I wouldn't legalize other drugs, but the past three of your presidents have smoked weed. If they have smoked it, then almost everyone in the USA must have toked at one time or another.

I dont see whats the big deal. I like to smoke marijuana sometimes. it helps me relax/unwind and helps me to enjoy myself. I dont go out beating people up after smoking it. I just stay at home playing video games or watching a movie and get the munches so I love to eat when Im stoned and It helps me to sleep. If Im having sleeping problems or eating problems I will use it. On cunninghams magickall herbs encyclopedia marijuana is listed. it says it helps the user when scrying. I find this true and I find my psychic power to multiply when im high because It helps my creativity and enthusiasm.

If you are concerned about the health risk there is such a thing as vaporizer bongs. so nothing is being burnt but the THC evaporates with heat.
THC has recently been scientificly proven to fight testicle cancer. and the government has been fighting for years. LOL
hemp and marijuana is like a super weed. so many uses. no wonder some cultures say it is given from God to mankind for its benefit.

no wonder some cultures say it is given from God to mankind for its benefit.

And then, on the eight day, God made weed...

*tight-lipped inhale*

*squeaky voice* And it was good!! *COUGHCOUGH!!* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by Xenomancer: Oct 25 2009, 01:08 PM

hehe

htc
personally I don't smoke weed. tried it twice, both times it made me feel very ill... sort of like a stomach flu. I was dizzy and I felt like puking. I didn't like it at all.
but I can tell that it obviously affects most people differently than it did me. It's not as addictive as either alcohol or nicotine. It's not as dangerous as alcohol or nicotine either. for it to be illegal is pretty silly in my view. I have known people who went to jail and had their homes or automobiles confiscated, just because they had more than a certain amount of weed in their possession. that's pretty retarded. there is no rational reason to have marry jane on the most wanted list.

halucinogens? lsd/dmt/etc.
eh... the good side is that they are not addictive, so they don't represent an obvious life-ruining substance. obviously you can OD on them, which is bad. but also you can have a 'bad trip' and end up doing something really weird... if you end up talking to your lamp, nobody cares, if you put the baby in the microwave, or think you can fly while out on a balcony, then suddenly its a big deal. I could understand keeping these substances illegal. I personally would not use halucinogens without someone present who is sober to monitor things. I can understand their illegality. But I think it is possible to use them responsibly as well.

'hard stuff' coke/meth/pcp/heroin/etc.
this stuff is highly addictive, rapidly destroys your brain, ruins your life, and kills you. It should be as illegal as selling poisoned donuts.

interestingly, when i was in grade school, it was much easier to get ahold of pot than it was to get alcohol or cigarettes. this was simply because pot came from illegal sources which don't care about your age. If we can agree that children probably shouldn't be using such substances, then it would make sense to legalize pot so that it's access can be more easily regulated.

Oh shit you guys ressurected this topic out of no where! I gotta check in more often!

im just amazed that so many people on this site smoke weed.... as well as other things i guess. i guess i shouldn't be surprised since most of america does, but still....

So just a little fact on the side, about 1 in 5 (one in four depending who you ask) have at least tried smoking pot. And there are about 25 million people who smoke it regularly. With medical marijuana laws in 16 states, currently, 1 in 6 Americans can smoke legally (if were just gave medical cards to everyone one those 16 states that is). Although technically the feds still consider marijuana a schedual one drug (right up there with heroine) Obama has pledged to not go after medical marijuana users or growers... but what's the word of a politician these days anyway? In my state, Denver county has decrimminalized possession of 1 once or less of pot. I can't remember the name of the county but in California there is a county where pot is totally legal. Not only is it legal, it contributes to 60% of the county's income - at least according to the MSNBC show "Marijuana, a Medical Industry" at least I think that's what it was called....

Point is the debate is almost more of a joke than anything else. Do you guys know what kind of illnesses can allow you to get a doctor recommendation for pot? Depression, insomnia, asthema. A friend of mine got his medical card for epilepcy which is even more funny because the intoxicating affect of marijuana is caused by the distruption neural activity in the brain do to the pressence of THC and cannibidol.

But what really just makes me frustrated is the fact that the vast majority of pot heads in this country do not commit crimes other than smoking weed. Most of us friendly potheads are just average tax paying Americans with a pass time recreational hobby that happens to be illegal.

Another issues the issue of freedom. Here in the land of the free, you'd think you'd have the freedom to put what ever substance in your body as long as you are not harming anyone else right? bah humbug.... I've burned out on the issue already.