Astrall Initiation Vs Live Initation, Is astral initation effective in the absence of a group Options

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I have heard that there is no real relacement for live initiation but I have also see in some web based esoteric orders astral initiations are the only initiation options.

has anyone under gone astral initiation ? is it effective does it work and can you compare it to live initiation?


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Greetings!
In My Humble Opinion...the only 'real' initiations occur on the astral...they may also be physical but, by and large, the real initiation is completed in the other planes (astral, mental and spiritual). (sorry...Dept. of Redundancy Dept.) Most occult orders operate on or within the astral anyway...their work anyway usually takes place in the astral. When one starts to practice 'magic' they are encouraged to build an astral temple/workplace. The making of 'tools' physically helps to create the tools astrally. This is why we, as mages, need to learn to use our astral senses. Most evocations in magic are done on the astral level...though we are in the physical, most will be unable to physically materialize spirit. I've have a specialized gift of being a physical medium but most are not. This doesn't necessarily mean that those people are weaker mages! Not at all! (being a medium has its own drawbacks...like a physical disability or disease, etc)
Oh well...I am rambling now, so that's my 2 cents! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif)

This post has been edited by bym: Apr 15 2007, 02:43 PM

93
I have heard that there is no real relacement for live initiation but I have also see in some web based esoteric orders astral initiations are the only initiation options.

has anyone under gone astral initiation ? is it effective does it work and can you compare it to live initiation?
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Personally I don't think much of orders which offer astral initiation. Basically it's a way of paying money to inflate your ego, imho. I doubt such orders even do much else than cash the check you pay ( and personally I don't think initiations should cost anything but that's another story).

I think one is better off doing some sort of self initiation if no physical initiation can be had, even by saving and travelling to do it.

Actuall physical intiations affect the aura of the individual in profound ways and certainly are acting astrally, no doubt. But without being in the physical proximity of the officers I don't think it's much use, other than inflating the ego so you think your such and such degree or title.

Just curious marsyas555...have you ever experienced initiation through an established occult order?
I'd agree that we need to be vigilant with groups of unknown quality, especially those that charge money for the service...but what I was speaking of was those groups that are established. There are ways of 'knowing' that the procedure(s) hold merit. Develope your senses...you can 'feel' the intense energies involved with true ritual magic. The air will feel 'electric' or very similar to that after a thunderstorm is/has happened. Posers do not achieve the 'charged' atmosphere! I was never billed for an initiation! Ever! And I would be highly suspect of those that do! IMHO, of course...

This doesn't invalidate solo practitioners from achieving Initiation! Not every one will have access to a magical fraternity/sorority/organization. But the active part of the Initiation isn't based in the physical at all...whether done solo or in numbers! Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by bym: Apr 18 2007, 08:59 PM

Just curious marsyas555...have you ever experienced initiation through an established occult order?
I'd agree that we need to be vigilant with groups of unknown quality, especially those that charge money for the service...but what I was speaking of was those groups that are established. There are ways of 'knowing' that the procedure(s) hold merit. Develope your senses...you can 'feel' the intense energies involved with true ritual magic. The air will feel 'electric' or very similar to that after a thunderstorm is/has happened. Posers do not achieve the 'charged' atmosphere! I was never billed for an initiation! Ever! And I would be highly suspect of those that do! IMHO, of course...

This doesn't invalidate solo practitioners from achieving Initiation! Not every one will have access to a magical fraternity/sorority/organization. But the active part of the Initiation isn't based in the physical at all...whether done solo or in numbers! Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Yes I have been formally initiated in an established order and have been actively officiating in intitiations for many years now.

I suppose it depends on what order one is joining, but imho, in what I am aware of in terms of orders of western ceremonial magick, I don't think astral initiations are to be taken seriously, generally speaking.

Imho there can be no stronger impact on the auric field of a candidate (provided the candidate is open to recieving the experience) than the presence of actual physical symbolism and actual physical people who are trained in affecting the aura of a candidate through the various modes of symbolism, which range from impliments, admission badges/talismans and the like to sensory stimulation through incense, sound/ vibration, lighting and such.

Imo just because a group is established doesn't mean they are trust worthy. Jim Jones had a pretty established group, and so did David Koresh. But we are in agreement that groups which exploit the name of their order for monetary profit are not to be trusted.

The astral aspect of an intitiation is extremely important, indeed. In fact I think it is the etheric affects that carry the most weight in how effective an intitation is. But personally I don't think it's gonna happen unless the physical candidate is present amongst the intiating body of officers.

It's only my opinion I'm stating. I feel solitary/self intitiation is a far better way if one can't put themselves physically with an initiating body. At least then you know that the work is actually being done.

93
I have heard that there is no real relacement for live initiation but I have also see in some web based esoteric orders astral initiations are the only initiation options.

has anyone under gone astral initiation ? is it effective does it work and can you compare it to live initiation?
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Ave Frater,
Most HOGD orders stress the importance of a physical initiation, particularly for the Neophyte grade. There is one order that I am

aware of that does the "Astral Initiation". They do the ritual while visualizing your presence, and you are supposed to do the same at

your locale, hence initiation at a distance! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dots.gif)

As far as a fee goes, I have paid them in the past, and have had them paid to the temple that I used to belong to. Part of the money is

sent to the "Grand Lodge" to pay for such things as running a website, and building rental fees. The subordinate lodge

keeps a portion for the same things....rent...office supplies...incense...etc, so the money is used for legitimate purposes, to keep the

temple going.

FraAngelico (IMG:style_emoticons/default/egypt1.gif)