Humility, Its role in the occult life Options

I think this trait is one of the defining things that sets magicians apart from more ordinary folk. When I say magicians I'm really talked about true magicians not the 'hope' magicians that are so prevalent. Even if you are the most maniacal, self-centered mage on earth if you're a real mage, when you deal with magic or powerful entities you know and understand the danger, which to me is humility. So I would say that humility is of great importance to all those seekers of knowledge because it acts as fear would only on a more sublime and subtle level, whereas fear is most often poisonous to the body, mind and soul. Having said that I wonder if there's such a thing as too much humility? Being a big non-easterner I admit to find their utterly self effacing ways to be far too morbid for my liking.

I agree, but I also think part of humility is 'knowing your place' if you will. That is to say, recognizing both the limitations of your own state, existence, development, etc., but also acknowledging your strengths, skills, aptitudes, and being appropriately appreciative of them. Humility is closely associated with appreciation, I think, and is inclusive not just of appreciating the possible pitfalls and dangers and how they can relate to you if you are not careful, but also appreciating honestly what you have accomplished so far, how it has changed your life, and recognizing all of the factors, external and internal, that brought you to that point.

So often I encounter the idea of humility as one of accepting "I'm just a small ant in a big universe", with various caveats like "give it all to god" and "you can't carry the weight by yourself", etc. But I think these things, while valuable for reflection, tend to draw attention away from the role that individual Personal Power has in true humility. We should not be afraid to shine and to accept our strengths for what they are, because denying them and inflating them are two extremes that cause the same thing - we lose sight of our place in the scheme of things, and therefore cannot appreciate where we are, how we got there, where we are going, and the value of our own goals whatever they are.

As a behavioral trait I think it also plays into respecting the nature of that place you find yourself in - knowing, accepting, and acting responsibly on the understanding that you develop as a magician that doesn't set you 'above' others, but takes away the excuse of ignorance when it comes to applying that understanding and wisdom. Acting with humility, it seems to me, isn't about just being self-effacing (which I see as more of an act of appeasement to an ideal, and not actually living that ideal), but considering the impact you will have on the world around you for good or ill when you act, and knowing when you do and do not have the right to impose yourself on that world.

I suppose I feel then that humility is a combination of knowing, understanding, honesty in those two things with yourself, and acting accordingly with respect for both yourself and for the world around you - to whatever degree you percieve the world.

As for it's place in a magician's life, I think it serves to keep us on our path in a way that will allow us to continue to grow in that direction. Loss of humility I think will side-track us, partially because we lose sight of that path, and partially to teach us the value of humility.

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Jul 30 2009, 04:36 PM

I think this trait is one of the defining things that sets magicians apart from more ordinary folk. When I say magicians I'm really talked about true magicians not the 'hope' magicians that are so prevalent. Even if you are the most maniacal, self-centered mage on earth if you're a real mage, when you deal with magic or powerful entities you know and understand the danger, which to me is humility...

Balance in all things, especially humility. Too much humility is pretense, too little humility is folly. Know yourself and where you stand in relation to where you want to be, and can be, and a healthy humility follows.

It's like pride. Pride goeth before destruction, but without a healthy pride, what success can one gain in the exulation of Self and the liberation of Mind?

Best,
Hermetic668

This post has been edited by Hermetic668: Jul 30 2009, 06:13 PM

I agree, but I also think part of humility is 'knowing your place' if you will. That is to say, recognizing both the limitations of your own state, existence, development, etc., but also acknowledging your strengths, skills, aptitudes, and being appropriately appreciative of them. Humility is closely associated with appreciation, I think, and is inclusive not just of appreciating the possible pitfalls and dangers and how they can relate to you if you are not careful, but also appreciating honestly what you have accomplished so far, how it has changed your life, and recognizing all of the factors, external and internal, that brought you to that point.

So often I encounter the idea of humility as one of accepting "I'm just a small ant in a big universe", with various caveats like "give it all to god" and "you can't carry the weight by yourself", etc. But I think these things, while valuable for reflection, tend to draw attention away from the role that individual Personal Power has in true humility. We should not be afraid to shine and to accept our strengths for what they are, because denying them and inflating them are two extremes that cause the same thing - we lose sight of our place in the scheme of things, and therefore cannot appreciate where we are, how we got there, where we are going, and the value of our own goals whatever they are.

As a behavioral trait I think it also plays into respecting the nature of that place you find yourself in - knowing, accepting, and acting responsibly on the understanding that you develop as a magician that doesn't set you 'above' others, but takes away the excuse of ignorance when it comes to applying that understanding and wisdom. Acting with humility, it seems to me, isn't about just being self-effacing (which I see as more of an act of appeasement to an ideal, and not actually living that ideal), but considering the impact you will have on the world around you for good or ill when you act, and knowing when you do and do not have the right to impose yourself on that world.

I suppose I feel then that humility is a combination of knowing, understanding, honesty in those two things with yourself, and acting accordingly with respect for both yourself and for the world around you - to whatever degree you percieve the world.

As for it's place in a magician's life, I think it serves to keep us on our path in a way that will allow us to continue to grow in that direction. Loss of humility I think will side-track us, partially because we lose sight of that path, and partially to teach us the value of humility.

peace

Reading the first paragraph I would say that you find humility more along the lines of gratitude, which I personally see as a nice expansion of the concept. Reading on I would say that you're conception of humility has nice strong positive associations. It's interesting that you talk about the impact caused by actions, I would say that this is along the lines of what I was saying when I said humility is like the superior, purified version of fear. Though if you think being self-effacing is connected to timidity as it sounds like you might I think I'm definitely in disagreement as I see self-effacing as something along the lines of invisible, which I would say is a good trait to have though not neccessary to employ.

Balance in all things, especially humility. Too much humility is pretense, too little humility is folly. Know yourself and where you stand in relation to where you want to be, and can be, and a healthy humility follows.

It's like pride. Pride goeth before destruction, but without a healthy pride, what success can one gain in the exulation of Self and the liberation of Mind?

Best,
Hermetic668

It's funny you mention pride, as I think humility and it's companion humbleness is the ultimate undoing of pride. For me I would say humility is greatly linked to the concept of acceptance and of certainty. It illuminates our mentality so that we do not shine from without rather than within. However I agree mostly with VD about the pitfalls these ideas, all too often people do not let their own light shine but rather let a random conglomeration emanate from their core. I think it's worth noting that even a total braggart could have an aspect of humility in my mind, humility is a very hidden aspect.

EDIT WAS: for me I would say Pride is greatly...

This post has been edited by Bb3: Aug 4 2009, 08:29 PM

It's funny you mention pride, as I think humility and it's companion humbleness is the ultimate undoing of pride. For me I would say Pride is greatly linked to the concept of acceptance and of certainty. It illuminates our mentality so that we do not shine from without rather than within. However I agree mostly with VD about the pitfalls these ideas, all too often people do not let their own light shine but rather let a random conglomeration emanate from their core. I think it's worth noting that even a total braggart could have an aspect of humility in my mind, humility is a very hidden aspect.

Humility and pride can be opposites, this is true, but the same things can be said of both - too little or too much can be a bad thing. They are not mutually exclusive, however - everyone has some of both along with all of the other characteristics that make us what we are.

Best,
Hermetic668