Memetic Magick, Meme Theory and Magick Options

Has anyone here delved into a study of connections involving Meme Theory and Magick?

If so, what is your take on how the two are / can be connected?

Care to briefly explain Meme/Memetic Theory pls? I haven't read anything on that. thx

As I comprehend them: a meme is a program comprised of ideas that – when activated by a mind – results with commandeering the concentration of the brain that hosts it, for replicating it in other brains for mental activation.

Although many meme theorists tend suggestively to speak of memes as if they are volitional entities that pick the brains they want to host them, according to my perspective they are not volitional entities. To me – the person who chooses mentally to activate them, and thus chooses to replicate them in other brains, is the one with volition.

All memes are not negative.
Memes can be positive.


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A example of a notorious kind of religious meme-program is:


1. You are not your body. Your body was born and will die. You will not die when your body dies. Instead of being your body, you are a creation originated by The Creator that creates all entities of your kind, and that created The Universe. You indwell your body.


2. When your body dies, you will come before The Creator. The Creator will judge whether or not you lived according to The Creator’s Seven Holy Mandates while incarnate. If The Creator judges you not to have lived according to the following Seven Holy Mandates wile incarnate, then you will be punished with never ending agony. If The Creator judges you to have lived according to these Seven Holy Mandates while incarnate, then you will be rewarded with never ending bliss.


3. The first Holy Mandate given by The Creator is to teach everyone who is not living according to these mandates:

a. about The Creator –

b. that The Creator created The Universe –

c. that The Creator created them –

d. that they are not their bodies –

e. that they will not die when their bodies die –

f. that, after the death of their bodies, The Creator will bring them to have how well they lived according to these mandates judged –

g. that The Creator will punish anyone that did not live according to these mandates with never ending agony –

h. that The Creator will reward anyone that lived according to these mandates with never ending bliss –


4. The second Holy Mandate given by The Creator is to assist, to associate with, and to cooperate with others who choose to live according to these mandates.


5. The third Holy Mandate given by The Creator is only to assist, to associate with, and to cooperate with anyone who does not choose to live according to these mandates with the single-minded purpose of coaxing them to convert to living their lives according to the mandates from The Creator.


6. The fourth Holy Mandate given by The Creator is to ignore the words of anyone who tries to persuade you to doubt that these mandates are from The Creator, or who tries to convince you to rebel against these mandates from The Creator. If you hark and heed their words by rebelling against these mandates, you rebel against The Creator, and you will be punished with never ending agony after your body dies – unless you repent your deeds, then live according to these mandates before your body dies.


7. The fifth Holy Mandate given by The Creator is never to question, to argue, and/or to debate, about the existence of The Creator. If you do so, you might be diabolically persuaded to doubt and rebel and be punished with never ending agony after your body dies – unless you repent your deeds, then live according to these mandates before your body dies.


8. The sixth Holy Mandate given by The Creator is never to question, to argue, and/or to debate, about the veracity and authenticity of these mandates. If you do so, you might be diabolically persuaded to doubt and rebel and be punished with never ending agony after your body dies – unless you repent your deeds, then live according to these mandates before your body dies.


9. The seventh and final Holy Mandate given by The Creator is never to change these mandates. If you change any of these mandates, then you will be punished with never ending agony after your body dies.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Mar 9 2006, 06:59 PM

As I comprehend them: a meme is a program comprised of ideas that – when activated by a mind – results with commandeering the concentration of the brain that hosts it, for replicating it in other brains for mental activation.

Although many meme theorists tend suggestively to speak of memes as if they are volitional entities that pick the brains they want to host them, according to my perspective they are not volitional entities. To me – the person who chooses mentally to activate them, and thus chooses to replicate them in other brains, is the one with volition.

Memes are almost belief genes. Base level ideas that get spread and shared, mixed and matched.

Survivable combinations of memes pass on, nonsurvivable ones die with the individual who held them.

Yes, Zahaqiel.



An analogy that I have often seen used is: memes to the mental are like genes to the physical.

Just as a genome is a combination of genes that work together to form the genome, which in turn codefies all the processes that result with growing the bones, organs, muscle, skin, appearance, etc... of the body - memes can work together to form the menome, which in turn codefies the processes that result with growing the analogues for the mind.

Thus: the genome to the body is like the menome to the mind.

One of the crucial aspects about memes that I have noticed is the replication code incorporated in them. It is not enough that a meme be just a pretty and/or cool, idea. It has to be a pretty and/or cool idea that not only hooks attention, but also provides instruction for them to be passed on. This is the difference to me between memes and mere slogans, catch phrases, etc...

But even slogans and catch phrases are inherently geared to be remembered and spread in the same way. They're developed to be such.

But even slogans and catch phrases are inherently geared to be remembered and spread in the same way. They're developed to be such.

Seems to me that a catch phrase, slogan, etc... significantly differ compared to a set of ideas that, when mentally activated, incorporate instructions for replication.

Catch phrases and slogans can indeed be reproduced and spread (eg. Coke is it! Just do it! etc...) - but they offer no instructions in their structure for their reproduction. Instead of being memes, they seem to be more like tantillizing attention hooks in the service of memes. In general, the two examples for catch phrases / slogans that I just gave would be hooks in the service of an advertising meme.

"You are not your body." could be considered as a catch phrase. That differs compared to entirety of the notorious religious meme I outlined in the first post here.

To run with the physical analogy: slogans to memes are like chromosomes to genes.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Mar 10 2006, 02:26 PM

As far as a marketing technique, I think "viral marketing" is a pretty good example of memes.

A good example is how Grey Goose was marketed recently. They paid 1000's of people to go to bars. Order the vodka and say how good it was, buy rounds for other people, and kind of "sell" it without making a sales pitch. After a few rounds when people thanked the person they would respond, "Just do the same for someone someday" or along similar lines, passing on the replication instructions. The next night you think "what should I drink", you remember the good feeling when that hot girl bought you a drink, not knowing she was a hired salesman. You might buy some grey goose for yourself and others, repeating the action.

I'm know expert but this seems to fit most or all of the criteria I think.

Does anyone know some good examples of memes used by magicians? I have seen some but I'm not always sure they are really memes, as they don't seem to reproduce on their own with out continual application of effort, where it seems like at some point it should "take on a life of it's own".

This post has been edited by chaoscrowley37: Mar 10 2006, 03:02 PM

I consider memes to be the genes of an "idea".
If that helps in the idea at all.

To use my earlier parallel again in a slightly different form, I would say: ideas to memes are like chromosomes to genes. Which is the inverse (ideas to memes) of how you presented it (memes to ideas), Chaoscrowley37 But, that aside, I think I get what you mean there.

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For the last couple of days, I have been considering that one example of a general popular meme for Magick itself might go something akin to this:

1. You cause your experience to change.

2. Being aware of changes in your experience that you cause enables you consciously to cause such changes. Being so aware is being Awake. When you are Awake, you are not at the mercy of events occurring in your experience ? like a leaf blown around in a windstorm. Instead of being at the mercy of events occurring, you are consciously in control of the changes you cause, in your experience. Being in control of such changes makes you responsible for such changes that you cause in your experience.

3. Not being aware of changes in your experience that you cause disables you from consciously causing such changes. Being so unaware is being Alseep. When you are Asleep, you are at the mercy of events occurring in your experience ? like a leaf blown around in a windstorm.

4. You can shift from being Asleep to being Awake by becoming aware of causing changes in your environment, and by becoming aware of how you can consciously cause such changes.

5. Others who have already Awakened have experimented and learned how responsibly to cause changes in their experience. They will responsibly teach you how to develop from apprenticeship to mastery for consciously causing your experience to change according to your will. You can learn how responsibly to cause changes in your experience from learning their techniques.

6. Using such techniques for consciously causing your experience to change, according to will, is working magick.

7. Becoming a master for working magick results with the responsibility to teach others how to shift from being Alseep to being Awake, then progressively teaching those who Awaken to develop from being apprentices, to being masters, for working magick. The most basic principles for such Sleepers to learn are these seven basic principles that have been explained.

This post has been edited by Praxis: Mar 10 2006, 04:41 PM

I'm wondering if there is a way to seperate the replication of the meme from the meme itself? Not really sure how to describe this but bear with me.

The examples above seem to have replication built-in but it is dependent on the acceptance of the meme. So if that doesn't happen it would quickly die. In the example above if I reject the seventh principle then the meme itself dies.

I think that this has been theorized but I'm kind of new to the whole idea.

To use biological terms,

Is there a way to create a meme in which one can be an asymptomatic carrier?

Or,a bit of a different idea, to stick with our genetics terms, can a recessive meme be created where two or more "parts" of memes form the whole body, take action etc., but only under proper circumstances?

This post has been edited by chaoscrowley37: Mar 10 2006, 06:03 PM

I have read meme theorists who talk of memes as if they do not have built in replication instructions.

The examples of memes (as I have here been specifically explaining memes) that I have offered have been stripped down to the proverbial bare bones (so to speak). And the examples I offered were ones where the replicator code is obvious, for the sake of illustration.

The version of the notorious religion meme that I spelled out is well known - and has survived for a long, long time because it includes that replicator code in it. A more complex version would have elaborate hooks -- that, well, hook people into accepting them.

i.e. (to run with that infamous religion meme) I did not include poetic explanations for The Creator, for The Universe, never mind hooks that coax people who encounter it for considering themselves as part of a beautiful, awesome, wondrous, glorious deific design, stroking them to feel (if not flat out saying) that one is among the special "chosen elect" of The Creator to be on the vanguard as crucial emissaries for sharing The Word, etc... Never mind eloquent and poignant promises of the various kinds of rewards to be had for accepting it, as well as the detailed omnious punishments to be had, for rejecting it.

When elaborated, such hooks could be (and often are) enough to convince some people to accept the meme, as well as to replicate it, without the presence of obvious replication instructions in its code. However, such memes that rely upon being replicated by only their "hookability" seem to me as if they have less of a chance for longevity than those that explicity incorporate replication instructions in their core code.

A simple phrase might be catchy. Although it also might get across an idea, I am not sure that it is anything other than just a catchy phrase - but when there are nested ideas, among which are instructions to persuade others to "get onboard" then it seems to me to become a full fledged meme.

However:

I can see how there could be a piecemeal process that happens. I can see how someone could already have general replicator program, with "plugs" built in for attractive ideas. Such that when one encounters an idea that is attractive enough, that idea gets connected to the replicator program one already has, forms a complete meme, the replicator program gets fired up - and then the proselytization of begins.

A very simple example of a replicator program could be:

1. Sharing ideas that excite and encourage others to behave in ways which improve the quality of their lives eventually improves the quality of your life - because people whose lives have quality are more likely to cooperate with you for mutually enjoying and increasing the quality with which life is lived.

2. Not sharing such ideas does not improve, and might even eventually degrade, the quality of life you enjoy - because people whose lives do not have quality, and who do not have the chance to increase the quality of their lives from such ideas, are more likely to be either direct or indirect impedements to your living a quality life.


That little replicator program primes one to share a catchy idea when it comes along. Especially if what is associated with the catchy idea is that it improves the quality of life. Or even, in the case of the notorious religion meme, the quality of the afterlife.

So yeah, Chaoscrowley37 - perhaps it is possible for there to be bits and pieces of ideas floating around that, when they come into particular alignment (according to all the right criteria) form a complete meme that then gears a person up to replicate all, or part, of it through sharing with others.

The only problem I have with considering and calling any of those bits and pieces "memes" is that doing so seems to degrade the meaning of the term down to being just synonymous with "idea".

This post has been edited by Praxis: Mar 10 2006, 08:37 PM

While browsing through amazon.com - lo and behold - I ran across this book:

Title: Memetic Magick
Author: Kirk Packwood

The Exerpt Blurb:


Opening the Portal to the Astral-Daemonic Planes

Artistic Endeavors as Representations of Complex Memetic Structures: Spirit = Symbol = Complex Memetic Structure

Symbols embedded within works of art are re-presentations of complex memetic structures which in many cases can be correctly labeled thought viruses. Since all human beings who have had any prolonged contact with society are programmed to some degree, large portions of the human mind (especially the thinking portion of the psyche which utilizes language) are constructed almost entirely of complex memetic structures. The complex memetic structures which form the cognitive linguistic (language using) portions of the human mind possess strong defenses, both passive and active, against contamination by invading thought viruses and memetic structures. A human mind will resist any ideas which do not bind correctly within the existing memetic structures which form the framework of its linguistic consciousness. Programmed minds will only listen to what they want to hear. Therefore, it is seldom possible for an idea to be taught to another person directly. Ideas which do not fit into the binding points within a mind will be resisted and rejected. In many cases an individual will desire to convey a specific idea to other human beings, but finds, when offered in their most diluted form, his ideas will be rejected. Oftentimes the solution to this problem is to create a work of art in which the artist’s message, or root meaning, is embedded. By work of art is meant any artistic endeavor which is traditionally considered to reside within the artistic sphere; be it literature, painting, music, movies, sculpture, etc. The artwork serves to focus the attention of the programmed conscious mind, while the root meaning (thought virus or memetic structure) embedded within slips unnoticed into the subconscious.

There is no inherent goodness in art. The idea to be conveyed in a work of art can have any quality from a startling revelation intended to better the human condition to a blatant deception designed to conceal truth and take power. On many occasions an artist will embed a root meaning into his art which he believes will serve the greater good, but in reality the artist’s concept of the greater good may be nothing more than an unusually complex example of the replication phase of a thought virus of which the artist has been infected without his knowledge. Most artists, like most people, are programmed by the dominant memetic structures, or cultural ideal types. Dominant memetic structures are only concerned with maintaining their dominance by replicating to as many minds as possible, not with the greater good of humanity, except in how the greater good of humanity serves to benefit the replication possibilities of the dominant memetic structure.

All artwork, even the most rudimentary, contains complex memetic structures residing at many different levels within the work of art. An intelligent mind can dilute a work of art much as a chemist can dilute a uniform mixture of diverse chemicals. Recognition of the root meanings inherent in artistic endeavors can lead an individual to a source of great understanding and power.

Artistic Symbolism

Every artistic endeavor contains numerous symbols embedded at many different levels within the work of art. Some of these symbols are imbedded into the art with willed conscious intent while others are the result of subconscious communication. Of the two types of symbols inherent in artwork the subconscious symbols are the most interesting. The consciously created symbols within artwork are complex memetic structures which can be correctly labeled thought viruses or thought contagions, depending on whether the memetic structure attempts to use the mind it has infected for the purpose of further replication.

A Memetic Magician wishing to spread fashioned thought viruses would do well to consider imbedding his creations into a work of art and releasing that work of art to a target population. The artwork serves as an outer guise concealing the true form of the thought viruses contained within. The entertainment or aesthetic value of a work of art engages the attention of the conscious mind of the individual partaking of the work of art, allowing the thought viruses embedded within to penetrate the defenses of the unaware target’s complex mental memetic structure. Once the thought viruses have penetrated, instructions can be disseminated and replication can commence.

The symbols contained within a work of art can assume a variety of different forms depending on the type of art being examined. For the sake of brevity, this chapter will focus primarily on literature and paintings. But the principals contained herein are equally valid in regards to any variety of artistic endeavor.

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And here I thought I was being original and clever beginning to explore this (wry grin)

Ah, well.

Although Kirk's approach seems somewhat different than my own has tentatively been in these posts so far, at least now I know that someone else has leapt off the deep end into exploration of this topic.

If anyone who has been following this thread gets their hands on this book and checks it out before I do, please post a review in the book review section.