Sigilisation In Sleep, Inducing sigils as mantras in sleep- thought Options

Hello everyone,

While I do not post here often, I am a recurring visitor of these forums, since I love how here is one of the few places that deal on a more serious note with magick and all it's aspects .

I read a post, a while ago, here, about sigils, and mantras, and how it's easier to fire a sigil, or implement it into the subconscious with mantra meditation, and also read Peter Carol's texts on the subject .
Also read some texts/books on consciousness and subconsciousness and so forth ...


Today I finished reading a text book called Theatre of Magic, which was a nice read and a question came into my mind ....

What if you were to record the mantra of the sigil, with a low sound wave maybe ( like some i-dose sounds ) and let it playback while you are asleep ? I am very curious yet skeptical to try this yet, but wouldn't it help put the message into the subconscious with greater ease ? and not deal with the conscious conflict ? In sleep, it would surpass it !? and get that sigil to manifestation, without the need of gnosis ?

Lot's of questions, I know, I am curious if anyone here knows more on this subject, or rather, on the subject of suggestions induced during sleep, for I feel this would be a possibility of getting the message rather easy ... the part of me that is skeptical though is, that I have seen some trance states, and some induced suggestions, like in people being hypnotized and I am a bit afraid of some eventual consequences with doing this, since our guard is off, the message may get across, but I am afraid of other consequences of this !? ( what could they be ? )

I would really love to hear, other's thoughts on this subject.

I don't recall reading something along those lines, if it has been posted before I am sorry ... Thank you for reading and looking forward to your thoughts

This post has been edited by =xz=z: Jul 11 2008, 03:35 PM

Hello everyone,

While I do not post here often, I am a recurring visitor of these forums, since I love how here is one of the few places that deal on a more serious note with magick and all it's aspects .

I read a post, a while ago, here, about sigils, and mantras, and how it's easier to fire a sigil, or implement it into the subconscious with mantra meditation, and also read Peter Carol's texts on the subject .
Also read some texts/books on consciousness and subconsciousness and so forth ...
Today I finished reading a text book called Theatre of Magic, which was a nice read and a question came into my mind ....

What if you were to record the mantra of the sigil, with a low sound wave maybe ( like some i-dose sounds ) and let it playback while you are asleep ? I am very curious yet skeptical to try this yet, but wouldn't it help put the message into the subconscious with greater ease ? and not deal with the conscious conflict ? In sleep, it would surpass it !? and get that sigil to manifestation, without the need of gnosis ?

Lot's of questions, I know, I am curious if anyone here knows more on this subject, or rather, on the subject of suggestions induced during sleep, for I feel this would be a possibility of getting the message rather easy ... the part of me that is skeptical though is, that I have seen some trance states, and some induced suggestions, like in people being hypnotized and I am a bit afraid of some eventual consequences with doing this, since our guard is off, the message may get across, but I am afraid of other consequences of this !? ( what could they be ? )

I would really love to hear, other's thoughts on this subject.

I don't recall reading something along those lines, if it has been posted before I am sorry ... Thank you for reading and looking forward to your thoughts

What you're talking about is sometimes (clumsily) referred to as a "mantric sigil" Areosol wrote about it in his essay, "Smuggling Sigils Across" (seehttp://www.spiralnature.com/magick/chaos/smuggle.html) and Frater U.:.D.: discusses it in High Magic. If you're familiar Fotamecus, in his origins as a sigil, his name was deliberately sounded to be a four-beat mantra (seehttp://plutonica.net/2008/01/23/talking-time-fenwick-kaidevis-rysen-part-i/ for an interview with Fenwick outlining more of Fotamecus' history).

I dislike the term "mantric sigil" because it's misleading. A sigil is a graphic representation, anything else is accompaniment, which is fine so far as it goes, but "sigil" is the wrong term for it, especially when there are so many others which are more suitable ("mantra" on its own, for instance).

The technique you describe may or may not be effective - it depends what effect you're trying for. For something relating to sleep, lucid dreaming, or dream influence it could be very powerful. To increase lucidity in waking consciousness it would likely be counterproductive.

That said, as with all things chaote: try it out. See what works. (And report back!)

Greetings!
Just a quick thought...
I'm all for involving as many of various stimuli and/or components to a ritual to deliver the very best in results but I do wonder with your technique that you are distancing yourself from the actual working of the experiment. With this quick note I know that I'm doing you a disservice to the depth of your inquiry.

The more that we rely on outside processes to do the work of a ritual, the farther you end up disassociating from that original effort. There is a difference to listening to, say, Vivaldi, to work up a desired state of mind to back a ritual than it is to utilize an artificially induced brainwave pattern to help do the same. I may not be articulating coherently about this...bvut I hope that I've illustrated a point. IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) I feel that when dealing with sigils, etc. that it would behoove you to go through the mental calisthenics to achieve your alpha or delta state naturally as opposed to having that state artificially induced. ??? Po-tay-toe, pa-tah-toe...

As I said before, this is just a quick thought. Have I missed the proverbial boat?
Peace. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/i_triangle.gif)

Hmmm, interesting replies, in my mind, I was thinking something along these lines ...

from the book : Practical Sigil Magick - Frater U.D. I read about Mantrical Sigils, and yes I agree that sigils are usually different drawings, graphical representation and not a mantric sound but, it was a method described in this book that could also be used to activate a sigil, plus read about the state of mind you could enter when repeating a mantra and so on, so I think there is something here . And you could fire up a sigil and then use the repeated mantra during sleep ...

The main "problem" with sigils, as I kept reading, is the problem with our conscious minds, and trying to surpass it and get the message to the subconscious, for this being needed to enter a gnostic state of mind and "planting" that massage, and then forgetting it/stop thinking about it and let the "coincidence" happen .

Since when we are asleep, our conscious is more or less asleep and our subconscious is more "awake" ( !? ) plating the mantra of that sigil during sleep would be allot easier and surpass any conscious conflict, for it would not require a gnostic state ... and then comes my dilemma, if this is really how it is, and if what I am saying is really true, about the conscious and subconscious during sleep ....

It's true that I am kind of getting farther from the original effort, and so forth, but maybe a combination of both, fire a sigil at night ( well that's when I usually do my work ) and then when sleeping putting the mantra on a repeat play until waking up ...

I am skeptical as well about all this, but for whatever reason I find it could work, but also afraid of consequences of our vulnerable state during sleep, and what may lead to happen with such an experiment .


At the end of the day it's chaos and everything is permitted true, and I guess I will have to try to be sure, but not until I do some more close reading .

Gotta research more about this, and contemplate on this subject, thank you for the replies (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)