Dzogchen : Trekchod , Togal, what's with the secret? Options

Greetings
Does anyone have any info on the Trekchod & Togal Practices(& Tummo for that matter) of the Dzogchen?
Its apparantly only passed down the lineage and the teachings are regarded too 'dangerous' to be given out to laymen.
So far ,they've done a pretty good job, i haven't been able to find squat on the net.
Tummo(Mystic heat practice) has been redisigned and sold with the Reiki package .I'm not sure if they're the same thing .
But i'm pretty sure its close to the Kundalini yoga.
The rest of the Ts have no info whatsoever... fascinating!
The buddhist forums are all hush -hush & it remains an intriguing mystery.
Thankyou

Greetings
Does anyone have any info on the Trekchod & Togal Practices(& Tummo for that matter) of the Dzogchen?
Its apparantly only passed down the lineage and the teachings are regarded too 'dangerous' to be given out to laymen.
So far ,they've done a pretty good job, i haven't been able to find squat on the net.
Tummo(Mystic heat practice) has been redisigned and sold with the Reiki package .I'm not sure if they're the same thing .
But i'm pretty sure its close to the Kundalini yoga.
The rest of the Ts have no info whatsoever... fascinating!
The buddhist forums are all hush -hush & it remains an intriguing mystery.
Thankyou

The best way to obtain teachings on Trekchod, Thodgal and Tummo is to find a Lama and tell him that you're interested in practicing trekchod, thodgal and/or tummo.

He or she will probably ask you why. Give an answer.

If the Lama is satisfied with your answer, you may have to practice Ngondro before you can have trekchod teachings and accomplish trekchod before you can have thodgal teachings.

Tummo have realistic physiologic description. Mountain hypoxia + pranayma with kumbhaks (rise hypoxia level) + "tapas" as hard work on muscle system + influence of cold. When this conditions meet together begin process of thermoregulation in lungs and body begin produce more heat than usually. Visualisation, meditation and etc work only as auxiliary but not obligatory method
Examples of tummo:
http://www.realyoga.ru/images/public/1142_2_big.jpg
http://foto.mail.ru/mail/rinad_minvaleev/60/i-64.jpg temperature -15C

This post has been edited by 4symbols: Aug 17 2007, 08:53 AM

Greetings
Does anyone have any info on the Trekchod & Togal Practices(& Tummo for that matter) of the Dzogchen?
Its apparantly only passed down the lineage and the teachings are regarded too 'dangerous' to be given out to laymen.
So far ,they've done a pretty good job, i haven't been able to find squat on the net.
Tummo(Mystic heat practice) has been redisigned and sold with the Reiki package .I'm not sure if they're the same thing .
But i'm pretty sure its close to the Kundalini yoga.
The rest of the Ts have no info whatsoever... fascinating!
The buddhist forums are all hush -hush & it remains an intriguing mystery.
Thankyou

'Togal' ('Thogyal') doesn't have anything to do with Kundalini. In order to learn Togal, you must be instructed by a Lama. The reason for this is (and I'm going to use a Western Psychological term here)--you are dealing with the deepest part of the Psyche. To go there, it's a bit like Deep Sea Diving; if you come up too fast, you'll die of the 'Bends'. It's that dangerous, if played around with.

Believe me, I've seen this happen.

So, the student must SLOWLY be prepared by someone (a Lama) who has already been there!

Have you read THE SECRET OF THE VAJRA WORLD by Reginald A. Ray? He gives a great description of Thogal without going too much into it:

"In Thogal, one explores and comes to realize the spontaneous self-perfection of everything. Having realized the aspect of emptiness, one encounters manifestation, "what remains,' on more and more subtle levels. Through the practice, phenomena appear particularly in spontan-teous visual appearances, and one explores in that direction, letting go on more and more profound levels......"The Togal practitioner works directly with the Clear Light that dwell inherently, 'spontaneously present' within all phenomena, using specific and exceptionally powerful exercises to reveal it within him or herself..."

Hope this helps,
chatelaa

'Togal' ('Thogyal') doesn't have anything to do with Kundalini. In order to learn Togal, you must be instructed by a Lama. The reason for this is (and I'm going to use a Western Psychological term here)--you are dealing with the deepest part of the Psyche. To go there, it's a bit like Deep Sea Diving; if you come up too fast, you'll die of the 'Bends'. It's that dangerous, if played around with.

Believe me, I've seen this happen.

So, the student must SLOWLY be prepared by someone (a Lama) who has already been there!

Have you read THE SECRET OF THE VAJRA WORLD by Reginald A. Ray? He gives a great description of Thogal without going too much into it:

"In Thogal, one explores and comes to realize the spontaneous self-perfection of everything. Having realized the aspect of emptiness, one encounters manifestation, "what remains,' on more and more subtle levels. Through the practice, phenomena appear particularly in spontan-teous visual appearances, and one explores in that direction, letting go on more and more profound levels......"The Togal practitioner works directly with the Clear Light that dwell inherently, 'spontaneously present' within all phenomena, using specific and exceptionally powerful exercises to reveal it within him or herself..."

Hope this helps,
chatelaa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo


article in WIKIPEDIA explains a bit


Kundalini is etymologically linked to caṇḍalī, the Sanskrit term for tummo, or 'inner fire'. The two practices are also related. Miranda Shaw clarifies:

Kuṇḍalinī-yoga offered a range of techniques to harness the powerful psycho-physical energy coursing through the body... Most people simply allow the energy to churn in a cauldron of chaotic thoughts and emotions or dissipate the energy in a superficial pursuit of pleasure, but a yogi or yogini consciously accumulates and then directs it for specified purposes. This energy generates warmth as it accumulates and becomes an inner fire or inner heat (caṇḍālī) that burns away the dross of ignorance and ego-clinging.[2]

Kundalini, therefore, is the energy that when accumulated and directed can become tummo, or inner fire. The two are essentially the same in nature but applied in somewhat different ways in the Hindu Kundalini Yoga practice and the Vajrayana Buddhist tummo practices, such as the Six Yogas of Naropa. Kundalini is generally described as a coiled energy at the base of the spine[3][4][5], at the first chakra, whereas Tummo is generally described as being accumulated at the second chakra, four fingers below the navel.[6][7] In Tibetan Buddhism the primary purpose of tummo is to gain control over subtle body processes as a foundation for Anuttarayoga Tantra practices in either the Dzogchen or Mahamudra systems.[8]

If you do wish to learn these skills you must be prepared to study with a good teacher for a period of some years and practice daily. You may have some idle curiosity about it of course, but to actually learn it, it will require more than a weekend workshop. Teachers who can teach these subjects are probably fairly rare. I doubt that they would be included in a reiki package.

Good master is very important.

One of the best ones you can meet nowadays is Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, who travels around the whole world.

There are yahoo dzogchen groups as well.

Generally, NN rinpoche gives you empowerment for Togal and Trekchod on his teachings, so that is maybe a good idea.

Otherwise, you might want to get this book (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

https://www.ligmincha.org/store/by-practice/heartdrops-of-dharmakaya/view-all-products.html?practice=show_cats

This post has been edited by Akyana: Jan 9 2009, 04:05 AM

A number of Tibetan Buddhist practitioners has told me theres also dangers to ones health as well. Its like during surgery to one's body with few areas of forgiveness when mistakes occur. Essentially your messing around with your own body's energies so you have to be careful.