Where The Wild Things Are... Options

This isn't really about the movie or the book (both are good by the way). Instead I'm kinda stealing the title to talk about something loosely related.

In the movie, Max finds himself in the company of 'monsters', and comes to enjoy their company for the most part. He feels at home amongst them, until later in the movie, when he decides to go home to his human family. although arguably his monster friends had become a family to him as well.

It's hard not to see a possible occult overtone in this.

Myself, I spend a disproportionately large amount of my time in the company of 'astral wildlife', daimons, etc. And a 'huge' amount of time communing with my patron deity, who is no less a wild thing. And I have come, in time, to gradually find their company more familiar and genuine and intuitive than the company of humans. I believe the british a century or two ago would have described it by saying I've "gone native" so to speak. Anyway, I realize it sounds strange to some, but I'm more comfortable and at ease with most spiritual wildlife than I am with most people. Some spiritual wildlife don't care for humans, and I have to say that I've come to see their point.

I realized I had turned a corner when I was once asked to cleanse a house of a haunting. I met the entity, a sort of lesser daimon, and chatted with it for a while. It was kinda terrorizing the people, but it had its reasons. I came to realize that I liked the entity, and I didn't really like the people living in the house all that much. So I refused payment and left. I realized that the nonhuman entity was more a kindred spirit to me than the humans were.

Since that epiphany, the trend has continued. Even to the point that 'being corporeal', having a body, at times feels awkward.

Max in the story eventually came to miss his family. But to be honest, I don't have a human family to go back to. Instead I have the most intimate relationship of my lifetime with a dark goddess on the island of the monsters.

I don't have any illusions about the fact that I am a human being. I mean, I am just that. But I think there is more to any person than just their physical incarnate form. And my 'something more' has grown to feel fairly dissonant with my humanity.

does anyone else empathize with this?
or am I already drifting out of earshot of the human paradigm?

You know, I never did read that when I was a kid. I'll have to go see it, and then maybe read the book. Although, according to stuffwhitepeoplelike.com I will be a cultural criminal.

I don't think you're too far off the radar saying that humans are pretty much crap. They're pretty much crap. Personally if you line up about 100 people, odds are very good that I would rather hang out with my dog than any one of them. If 1 or 2 happened to be cool, they could maybe meet my dog, as long as they understood that the dog rides up front, and also that they would have to buy their own ice cream.

Maybe that's a bit silly, but it's essentially true. In a more serious vein, I spent a lot of my life the way you seem to now. My current girlfriend was a little weirded out when I told her that a lot of the reason I had done well in school and gifted was because I could always ask for answers. Go Thoth! Up to about a year ago, if I had been handed an opportunity to walk off this rock and into the Mystery in a painless way that would not have necessitated my return , and wouldn't have harmed others, I would have taken it and never been tempted to look back.

Okay, 2 paragraphs about me here, what's my point?

I read a lot of your posts (and enjoy them.) A pretty common theme is your growth into the realms beyond humanity. I'm vastly oversimplifying, but it seems to me like you view growth as pretty much always away from humanity. As if there's the energy / spiritual pole, and the human one. But recently I've come to think it doesn't have to be either-or, even if there is dissonance between the two. The totality of what you are, beyond your humanity, is fully capable of embracing the humanity and the energetic spiritual side. Maybe not always at exactly the same time, but in a healthy cycle, yeah. AUM might be inconvenienced, but I don't think it's ever fully stopped, even by the awful crush of humanity.

The most powerful and complete being I know is extremely human. When it's magic time, it's magic time. She has over and again, (with physical and often medical proof), stepped in and made choices with her will about life and death. No new age fluffy stuff. No (psychological) magical thinking. No complex god names or diagrams or ancient unpronounceable languages (although she'll use anything that seems right, or fun, or strikes her fancy). (And personally I am a sucker for all of the above, for which she mocks me endlessly.)

But when it's human time, it's HUMAN time. Dollar stores, parties, family, bad tv, eating too many cookies. Personality that is wonderful, compassionate, giving - and human with some flaws that are like grit in the eye, after an eye infection - in a desert. She's happy, she's sad, she gets mad. She'll give someone the shirt off her back, and then she'll judge someone to be an asshat. And for the most part she accepts that about herself and others.

Which is why I love her. She's a real human, not a cored out shell with a crank philosophy and a bit of power and nothing left to drive it but madness. (and that last bit was definitely not directed at you or anyone here.) I'm friends with her because the whole of who she is, human side and other, is great. In part I trust her magic because she's impeccable, and in part because she's human and we can relate down here, too.

Okay. Once again, what the heck is my point?

I hope, in a friendly and non-offensive way I can say (in agreement with you): You're human. And I know that like all of us, you only post a bit of yourself online because that's just good sense. But it sounds to me like your human bits are lonely dude (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Maybe get down on the mudball and play a little? Maybe ease up on your rapidly returning / exponentially growing abilities to mold reality like playdough. Your spiritual self can't go any where, and you and your mentor have eternity. Human time span is like, what, 80 years if we get stuck here that long? You can clean that dirt off in no time.

Okay. Well, that was rambly. reading it over again I got preachy, which I'm terrible for. I just meant to say that I hear where you're coming from. In this regard, you're not distant at all - being bored or disgusted with, and sick of, humanity is totally understandable. If you've been lucky enough to make good friends who happen to be non-corporeal and they take up most of your time, there's nothing wrong with it if you're happy. But you sometimes sound a bit lonely to me.

(Although I also sometimes agree with Frank Herbert when he, roughly, said one of the signs of being truly human is that you're lonely most of the time.)

Annnyway, maybe I'm projecting too much of my own path here, which is something else I'm prone to do. If that's the case, my apologies. It might be that I've turned away from the top of the mountain, and you need to chat with someone who's at the peak staring fiercely at the stars the way you are (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I've been going through a very similar situation the past few weeks. I've recently moved and am feeling out of place. I feel distant from everyone. In a way I always have but it had been quite intense a few days ago. I felt very UN-human. Although I've always seemed to be sensitive to the environment (in an uncomfortable way much like you said 'having a body feels awkward') I've only begun to realize that this is a feeling of my energy being unfocused (i feel a great need to meditate and concentrate on energy work) I'm not saying that this is what's happening to you or that you have any kind of a problem at all just to clarify, but, if you can't seem to stop worrying this dissonance or lack of harmony and balance I suggest to sit down and really MEDITATE. Throw your complete self into your body, feel the ground's vibrations traveling up into yourself, focus on the physical aspects of things. I also find eating helps to kind of ground yourself and strengthens your link or bond with the physical world. I also suggest truly taking an interest in other humans in general. I sometimes feel like I have nothing in common with the average individual simply because of my interests in the occult but simply being happy with the world around you will make others happy and they will love you for the positive energy your bringing to their environment. Smile, relax, be human... or not... whatever makes you happy. Just know that both your spirituality and your humanity are infinitely intertwined.

best wishes

I don't think that humans are crap really. They are what they are, like everything else in existence, they 'just are'. And I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with their existence either. I think they'll probably wipe themselves out in the next 100 years or so, and that's ok too.

It's just that I *am* one of them, but I don't identify with my own species. really this is 'ok' too, it's just thought provoking, for me anyway.

in a way it's a sign of success in my spiritual path. I've always felt there is 'something more', and I have for the last decade or so applied myself to attempting something like a spiritual evolutionary step. it's basically a sort of enlightenment path. The fact that the species/social group which i used to feel basically a part of, now feels somewhat alien to who I have grown into, is to me a sort of side effect of the fact that I have made some very real progress in my intended path.

I've kinda made myself into a foreigner in my own homeland.

meanwhile I feel very at home in an incorporeal setting, with incorporeal beings. it's much more intuitive, and there's a level of comraderie which is no longer easy to access with other humans. your typical daimon is much less 'strange' to me than your typical human. and of course, the greatest relationship of my life is with an incorporeal being, and I view my destiny as lying with her.

am I lonely? only when i'm in my body, and not nearly as much as I probably sound. In recent months I have been separated from my patron deity for reasons which probably deserve a thread of their own. It's no spat, but a vital part of my spiritual path. And as a result of that I have felt a more marked sense of loneliness than I normally would feel. She and I were for a very long time deeply entwined spiritually. Having her as a part of me and vice versa. the transvocation would make me feel quite nonhuman. Without her entwined within me, I did at first feel 'more human', but as I've settled back into working on my path, I've come to realize that a surprisingly large quantity of that which made me feel nonhuman is still there, as an expression of just myself alone. Which has surprised me a bit. I hadn't realized just how much I've changed because her presence was kinda masking it.

I have mixed feelings about it. I'm happy for my success thus far, but yes, I do notice that when you take up mountain climbing, you can run yourself out of range of having 'peers' to interact with. And that makes it kinda lonely. I'm not entirely uncomfortable with loneliness though. I don't feel conflicted or upset by it, its more a softly whispered thing in my feelings. Anyway, I'm certainly not going to come back down the mountain and give up on the summit, on my dreams, just because I'm a little lonely (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bigwink.gif)

Should I take time off to be human? hmmm... basically when you describe your friend who has 'human time', you remind me of something which I already basically know and agree with. But it is somewhat contrasted with my sense of ambition. I am a fiercely driven individual on my spiritual path. I approach it with a great deal of seriousness and zeal. I recognize that my goal (basically a form of deification), is certainly not something one would achieve by being timid or lazy in their spiritual path. So yeah 'driven' and 'ambitious' and 'determined' sum up my relationship with spirituality. This kinda competes with the wisdom of your friend, which I do appreciate and basically agree with. I think, that if I did not feel like I am still short of my goal, I'd be a lot more relaxed. But while I am still short of the summit, I don't really intend to slack off. Anyway, 'human time' creeps up whether you will it or not. Online, I keep things pretty strictly occult oriented. but I do have a 'job', and friends, and I go to movies, and camping, amusement parks, etc. I do basically take time to be human, but only because I can't fill every waking moment with epiphanies and spiritual growth (i've tried hehe). It seems that some aspects of spiritual development simply take time once set into motion, and its not a bad idea to have other hobbies to play with when you have to wait for things to 'gel'.

The_Seeker, I'm not really in a state of disharmony within. Quite the opposite really. in fact i would list that as one item on a long list of things which I don't have in common with humans. I view humans as quite chaotic and generally unhappy, by contrast to most people I know, I feel very serene inside. It actually makes people seem to be attracted to me, that I don't get shaken, that i'm stable, calm, resolute, etc. people like that, or admire it, or so it seems to me. anyway, i do meditate, quite often in fact. I'm not in a state of distress really, on the contrary I lean more towards bliss for the most part. But I do have a sense of subtle melancholy about the fact that I don't fit in very well. Mind you I 'fit in' just fine, very well in fact, socially. But that's not really me, that's just me playing human. anyway, i do appreciate your well wishes though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) and I hope you are well too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Vagrant Dreamer posted a good bit here because I have a hard time grasping something unless it's completely layed out like a set of Legos.

Essentially, it gives a good explanation as to the mechanism by which consorting and/or associating with entities over a long period of time can loosen one's touch with the human existence and this plane.

Quite frankly, I look for the opposite, as I feel so, for lack of a better way to put it, earthbound. As I said in the post with the Daemon Lover subject, this realm is subject to jading people, as it is much like a machine. It compresses us in a linear existence, stretches us out, breaks us down, fires us, and attempts to reforge us for an experience where we can feel the nitty-gritty basics of existence, and learn to get by on so little while we are out of touch with the absolute. I seek a means to ease this process. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I need the opposite. I need to break away somehow. Kath, collaborate with me on how I can pull this off! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by Xenomancer: Oct 27 2009, 10:04 PM

i can empathize fully to feeling at odds with the human world but very comfortable with astral entities and such. im more or less a self ordained hermit with every intention to commune and partake of the spirit world to my fullest capacity. ive gotten over my feelings of disdain for all the shortcomings of society at large, but nonetheless i can barely relate to most of the things common folk find enjoyable. i know that i need a certain amount of contact and even communion with people and the world at large in order to keep some kind of balance, but that balance leans alway more towards spirit than "the world". one of the reasons i decided to start coming to this forum is to have some contact with humans who are more or less of like-mind.

what i know of the spirits that i commune with is some are touchy about humans and usually avoid them, and some from various positions of the pantheonic spectrum are very involved with humans but from a distance that is out of sight. one time i went on and on in circles communing with a dragon who expressed how humans are the only species it knows anywhere that affords themself the time and effort into so many different types of measurments rather than just being as they are in our own natures. and then went on to cause a paradox to its statement by telling of how the spirits whom measure things and themselves in no such way are the ones who inspire and aid in these measurments that humans engage in. it was quite puzzling really.

no return

Igisi

I don't think that humans are crap really. They are what they are, like everything else in existence, they 'just are'. And I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with their existence either. I think they'll probably wipe themselves out in the next 100 years or so, and that's ok too.

Heheh. Sorry I mistook you there. I still agree with you ... I think humans are what they are, and that's okay. i also think they're mostly crap - but I feel that's that's okay too. I don't see myself as 'above' anyone so I have rationalized that it's okay to throw mud down here on the ground - lol.

It's just that I *am* one of them, but I don't identify with my own species. really this is 'ok' too, it's just thought provoking, for me anyway.

There's a lot to be said for making yourself a stranger in your own homeland. Maybe some difficulties, but everything has an opportunity cost. A buddy of mine is just starting a tour as a blues musician, and is setting out across the country for the first time. We were just talking about how much you grow by becoming a small adaptable (and growing!) fish outside your own little pond. It's always way harder to stay 'home' once you've 'left.' It IS pretty interesting.

am I lonely? only when i'm in my body, and not nearly as much as I probably sound. In recent months I have been separated from my patron deity for reasons which probably deserve a thread of their own. It's no spat, but a vital part of my spiritual...

I've read your posts about this, and really enjoyed them. You should definitely start a post here about that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Anyway, I'm certainly not going to come back down the mountain and give up on the summit, on my dreams

Ha! That's good. I didn't think you would. I know they always say there's no way to go back without harming yourself. I think that's probably true, the best way is to keep going onward. I wouldn't try to dissuade from pursuing your path!

I see what you're saying. I was actually thinking about that curled up on the couch after I wrote my long rambling post. My friend had already reached her goals by the time we met. She was comfortable at the level she had reached and thing accomplishments she had, and while it was a continual process of refining, she wasn't in the heavy burn anymore. Her focus in the early stages afforded her the strength she could call on later, so she was able to, ah 'slack' a bit more.

... do basically take time to be human, but only because I can't fill every waking moment with epiphanies and spiritual growth (i've tried hehe). It seems that some aspects of spiritual development simply take time once set into motion, and its not a bad idea to have other hobbies to play with when you have to wait for things to 'gel'.

Heh, yeah. That's one of the hardest things, in a good groove. Letting it go to cook on its own. I always hated that.

Okay, not much more to add, and you're probably past the peak on this, just wanted to drop a few lines back in reply. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

past the peak? hehe. no, not really.

I view the 'peak' as the great work, or achieving a bodhisattva-like state... no such luck thus far. Been at it about 8 years so far. I think I'm more than halfway, and I am quietly confident, but I don't think it'll be a anytime in the immediate future. I still have a lot to do yet.

start a thread about recent developments with my mentor? hmm, probably have to start a background thread first, to create context.