Calling Archangels Inquiry, Calling the Archangels Simultaneously Options

Hello, SM. I have been researching the LBRP and I have come across a question which I would very much like a direct answer to. The question; if a person is performing the LBRP somewhere in the world, and another performs it someplace else as well, how will calling the archangels properly work? I've not concluded my study of the LBRP, therefore I do not fully understand what transpires when the archangels are called. Do they quite literally show up? Or do their presences or essences simply show up? These questions lead me to my true question: Two people simultaneously performing the LBRP someplace on Earth, how does calling the archangels work properly? Or is it that the essence of the archangels are present and they are not truly present? that would make more sense to me.

I would appreciate anyone's opinions, but if someone knows for a fact how calling the archangels works, I'd appreciate your explanations greatly.

Thank you.

Hello, SM. I have been researching the LBRP and I have come across a question which I would very much like a direct answer to. The question; if a person is performing the LBRP somewhere in the world, and another performs it someplace else as well, how will calling the archangels properly work? I've not concluded my study of the LBRP, therefore I do not fully understand what transpires when the archangels are called. Do they quite literally show up? Or do their presences or essences simply show up? These questions lead me to my true question: Two people simultaneously performing the LBRP someplace on Earth, how does calling the archangels work properly? Or is it that the essence of the archangels are present and they are not truly present? that would make more sense to me.

I would appreciate anyone's opinions, but if someone knows for a fact how calling the archangels works, I'd appreciate your explanations greatly.

Thank you.

The principle archangels have omnipresence and can be in multiple locations. In a circle of magicians or some other rite of a group of magicians they may do the LIRP simultaneously.

Thank you for your reply Claire. It makes sense now how that would work.

I've bumped this specific post mainly so I don't need to create a new post about a similar topic.

I've been performing the LBRP for two days now, and I've developed some questions I've come across whilst performing it. I know it's a bit rare to find any 'fact' as it were when dealing with magick in general, however, if someone can explain to me in fact and not assumption:

[1] Why is the LBRP done in a dark room? Can it not be done in daylight?

[2] Why is it that we have to walk clockwise? What does it mean in magickal terms?

[3] What is the significance of lighting candles? Is there a specific way the candles are supposed to be placed?

[4] What is the purpose of calling the archangels? I've read they could be substituted, but it's not my desire to do that, I simply want to know why they are called and what functions they perform.

I have read many places that explained some of the questions above, but they were all unsure assumptions. I'd appreciate any information on these questions.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by Stjerne-kropp: Jul 10 2010, 09:51 PM

hmm, personally I feel that "omnipresence" is a characteristic of deity-hood.
then again, I think that everyone's basically omnipresent, and that deity-hood is more a sort of total consciousness/awareness, of the non-finite self.
also, technically, I don't really believe in archangels, at least not in the common cultural monotheist context.
so take my notion with a grain of salt if you will.

hmm, personally I feel that "omnipresence" is a characteristic of deity-hood.
then again, I think that everyone's basically omnipresent, and that deity-hood is more a sort of total consciousness/awareness, of the non-finite self.
also, technically, I don't really believe in archangels, at least not in the common cultural monotheist context.
so take my notion with a grain of salt if you will.

Thanks for your reply kath, I'll take it into consideration.

My questions still stand if anyone wants to shed light onto the darkness that is my confusion on the aspects of the subject.

um, what is your source for the cm you are working? - are you working from a book or do you have a actual teacher/group you are working with?

if you are working with a group, i'd ask them as these are the sorts of basic questions teachers always get

i am not a ceremonial magician, but i can probably touch on some of them - i'd love to know if i'm right on these or not - i've read regardie, etc, but i'm a witch at heart lol

>>[1] Why is the LBRP done in a dark room? Can it not be done in daylight?

in the dark your mind is more open to the thinks that cannot be seen?

>>[2] Why is it that we have to walk clockwise? What does it mean in magickal terms?

clockwise is the apparent motion of the sun - sunwise, right hand path, generation versus dissolution

>>[3] What is the significance of lighting candles? Is there a specific way the candles are supposed to be placed?

candle magic - the ritual should outline the candle placement - doesn't it?

[4] What is the purpose of calling the archangels? I've read they could be substituted, but it's not my desire to do that, I simply want to know why they are called and what functions they perform.

the archangels are probably like calling the quarters in witchcraft - they say that the alexandrian tradition, which uses quarters, influenced gerald gardner when he went to england and met some of the alexandrians and worked some rituals with them and they gave him access to their book of shadows - i don't call the quarters, but from what my old teacher told me years ago, the quarters, watchtowers, whatever, are the four beast-headed angels surrounding the throne of god (which would make them archangels, ya?)- they are the embodiment of the elements and are called as a protection and to witness the working

that should hold you til you get a proper cm answer

um, what is your source for the cm you are working? - are you working from a book or do you have a actual teacher/group you are working with?

if you are working with a group, i'd ask them as these are the sorts of basic questions teachers always get

i am not a ceremonial magician, but i can probably touch on some of them - i'd love to know if i'm right on these or not - i've read regardie, etc, but i'm a witch at heart lol

>>[1] Why is the LBRP done in a dark room? Can it not be done in daylight?

in the dark your mind is more open to the thinks that cannot be seen?

>>[2] Why is it that we have to walk clockwise? What does it mean in magickal terms?

clockwise is the apparent motion of the sun - sunwise, right hand path, generation versus dissolution

>>[3] What is the significance of lighting candles? Is there a specific way the candles are supposed to be placed?

candle magic - the ritual should outline the candle placement - doesn't it?

[4] What is the purpose of calling the archangels? I've read they could be substituted, but it's not my desire to do that, I simply want to know why they are called and what functions they perform.

the archangels are probably like calling the quarters in witchcraft - they say that the alexandrian tradition, which uses quarters, influenced gerald gardner when he went to england and met some of the alexandrians and worked some rituals with them and they gave him access to their book of shadows - i don't call the quarters, but from what my old teacher told me years ago, the quarters, watchtowers, whatever, are the four beast-headed angels surrounding the throne of god (which would make them archangels, ya?)- they are the embodiment of the elements and are called as a protection and to witness the working

that should hold you til you get a proper cm answer

Thanks for your response Esoterica. I'm reading the Donald Michael Kraig book Modern Magick. He describes the LBRP and the aspects that go into it, and although he does provide some insight into why certain things are done in the ritual, he does't explain all of them.

You've definitely provided me answers I'm going to look more into, so it will hold me, haha. I want to get more in depth; closer to factual concepts, such as when you say the possibility of the clockwise walk when doing the LBRP is because of the apparent motion of the sun. If that is in fact, a fact, I can understand it. But in general,
- why would the clockwise rotation of the sun have anything to do with a magickal ritual? Why is the sun's rotation important by magickal means to a ritual?

I've reread the LBRP section of Modern Magick and he doesn't describe candle placement. He only says one may use one or several white candles for a room during the ritual. I just wondered, when I was doing the LBRP, considering that the ritual seems to possess specific guidelines, if candle placement was as important as the other aspects in this ritual.

i want to apologize if my questions are becoming a bit aggravating, but I really want to know why I'm doing certain things in a ritual. It just seems to me that if I wish to perform magick, I should know in great detail why certain things must be done.

Thanks.

>>why would the clockwise rotation of the sun have anything to do with a magickal ritual? Why is the sun's rotation important by magickal means to a ritual?

in old belief, based on perception, clockwise went with the sun (and thus forward in time) so it went with growing things - anti-clockwise was the reverse, or diminishing

deosil vs widdershins, right hand path vs left hand path - i've read that some stupid televangelists won't even make left turns cause its 'sinister', the old latin word for 'left hand'

check out some threads on the 'left hand path'

of course we now know that the apparent deosil motion of the sun is because of a widdershins spin of the earth! - someone once said that when they were initiated, i believe it was into the masons, rhey went 'shhhhh!', held their finger to their lips, and whispered 'the earth revolves around the sun!' - saying shit like that in the old days without being very quiet or not knowing who you were saying it to, in those times of the church persecutions, was enough to get you tortured, or hanged, or even burnt - hence the secret societies that grew up among scholars and the learned to preserve that knowledge - to some, deosil may indeed be positive to widdershins negative, others may just accept it and run with it, and others my seek the in-between, the balance between right and left, which is stillness - advanced: if you crave a personal teacher and cannot find a cm person willing to teach and/or initiate you (they do exist - google oto), seek that stillness and ask it of the universe, and you never know - you should always discern what comes, but what comes may just be enlightenment, or at least a teacher (i just call them my 'astral friends') - they can be a pain since they never sleep or eat and make crazy demands (all for a purpose), but boy do you learn!

Hmm, interesting. What you described makes sense. Thanks again for replying, and if I develop anymore questions I'll be sure to ask here.

This post has been edited by Stjerne-kropp: Jul 15 2010, 09:49 PM