Offerings And Sacrifices For The Goetics, what are good options when the book specifies this must be done? Options

I was looking at some of the goetic descriptions in the book, and I started to think to myself "what the hell is a good offering for these guys?".

There are many spirits in the book, Kings, that I'd like to work with down the line but I don't know what proper offerings and sacrifices and gifts are for them.

Do I look in liber 777 and get ideas there, that correspond with solar spirits? Or do I follow some other advice by magicians that have already worked with them? Or do I risk not giving them those offerings and simply evoke them and ask them straight-out what they'd like?

I'm interested in anyone that has experience with any of the kings, like paimon, belial, bael, or beleth. I don't really know many people that have evoked them.

I will try a pendulum with the seals to see if I can get some kind of answer like that, but I usually don't get much out of a pendulum.

Btw, I've not been able to figure out what "the bonds and charms" are. I've asked around, but nobody seems to know. I guess that's something that is just ignored nowadays.

There's always the old 'summon them and ask' trick. *shrug*

I found that incense and good alcohol work well, myself, but they may tell you they want something different.

Thank you for the input, Darkmage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thinking about your suggestion of alcohol, are there planetary associations with certain types of alcoholic beverages? Like tequila for mars or rum for the sun??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Or do you mean regular rubbing alcohol?

Also, are the offerings burned during the evocation (which is something I did once that helped a lot with manifestation) or are they left until after the license to depart and buried/burned afterwards? Seems to me that burning oranges might help with a solar spirit to manifest but I am just theorizing here.

Rubbing alcohol's great--if you're trying to get rid of them or piss them off. I mean ethyl alcohol, the drinking stuff. I usually pour half a glass of wine or something--basically whatever I have ATM--on the ground where the triangle was before I scrub off the sigil, but that's me.

Incense is easy--either use it to summon them in the triangle or toss it on the fire after they arrive.

What kinds of stuff you offer's up to you. Don't be afraid to ask if an entity has a specific preference--if they do, they'll usually say so. Now, if one only accepts Dom Perignon, he's either yanking your chain or politely declining your request. If that's the case, tell them, 'fine, if that's what you want, give me the $$ to get it for you!' I've never thought that deeply about correspondences and whatnot as they don't hold a great deal of meaning for me.

Ok I see, thank you for the suggestions. I guess I might as well just try (someday) evoking them and ask them about it. I guess red wine would be a good idea. I'll see what I can come up with dreamwork. I'm terrible with scrying, but dreamwork comes relatively easy to me.

Greetings,

There is nothing in The Clvicula Salomonis Regis about sacrifice.

In the introduction by Aliester Crowley nothing is said about any sacrifice.

The Goetia is set up so that all spirits are made subject to the magician.

Preliminary invocation:
pg 7

"Hear me, and make all spirits subject to me: so that every spirit of the firmament and of the Ether: upon the Earth and under the Earth on dry land and in the Water: of whirling Air, and of rushing Fire: and every spell and scourge of God may be obedient unto me."

This noted I have gotten a better response from the 72 Chief Spirits with sacrifice.

I have used wine fruit bread and meat or any combination of.

Best of Luck!

Hello edunpanna,

The 68th spirit is called Belial, he is a mighty king and powerfull; he was Created next after Lucifer, & is of his order; he appeareth in ye forme of a Beautiful angel sitting in a Charriot of fire, speaking wth a comly voice, declaring that he fell first & amongst ye worthier & wiser sort wch went before Michael & other heavenly angels; his office is to distribute preferments of senatorships, and to cause favour of friends & foes, he giveth Excellent familiars & governeth 80 Legions of spirits. Note this kink [! king] Belial must have offerings sacrafices & gifts presented to him, by ye Exorcist or else he will not give True answares to his demands; But then he Tarryeth [will tarry] not one hour in ye truth except [unless] he be constrained by devine power & his seal is Thus wch is to be worne as a Lamin, before ye Exorcist &c.

This not from the crowley version, it's from the peterson version. I'm sure I've read of others that say this.

Anyway, I'm thinking it's just safer to give offerings and "sacrifices" (I don't plan on killing anything, that's for sure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) even if it's not specified in most cases.

Thanks for the tips. I'm not a demon worshipper, but I do like to play it safe, even when it comes to working with a demon (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

greetings all.sacrifice or not depends on the path you take.i personally do not sacrifice to any of the goetic spirits as i use the ancient way of calling them,under the name of a greater power.there are some spirits that will trick you if you do sacrifice to them.but if you are following a lhp or demonology path then i fuess a sacrifice is always in order.in my own opinion,and mine alone,the getic spirits are not all what they seem,the arent all in one category,some are indeed forgotten Gods and goddesses,some others ancient spirits,djinns and many varieties.they were all just jumbled up into one category wrongfully(though it was intentional).You will find that out yourself the more you work with them.

I agree with you rishi. My experiences have shown me that some are quite nice and gentle, and others dangerous and very tricky, and it's never easy to tell which one will be in a good mood. Could you please elaborate about your methods of evocation, if not here, then through PM?

Greetings 'altpath,

Nice note! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I have always liked the idea that the Goetic demons are being constrained to do the will. Offering a little sacrifice is not a bad idea though. For any task given there should be an immediate reward in my opinion. Perfumes or incense particular to the task at hand I think is also a goof idea.


Peace!

greetings edunpanna (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif),

I'll try offering something as a reward, but I'll specify "anything you want me to give to you, you have to make sure I can get it easily", because finding incense (even the most basic kinds like sandalwood) can be difficult to get in my country.

You've worked with several goetics right? How have they received rewards? Have they ever complained saying something like "c'mon, you can do better than that!"?

I can't speak for anyone else on here, but I treat the reward phase as the dreaded "Please show salary history in cover letter with resume." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dots.gif)

I use what I have on hand at the moment. A lot of incense ingredients aren't hard for me to come by as I live on the edge of the local Chinatown. The Asian grocery near my house has 8oz powdered sandalwood for $5, so I'm stocking up while I can. Spices work, as does food. If they ask "Can't you do better than that?" I point out that I gave them what they asked for, and if they don't like it, it's too damned bad as they're not the boss, I am. If they want a raise they can work to get it.

Food works, drink other than alcohol works too (a few have a taste for Coca Cola and Pepsi, actually), incense works, scrawling their sigil as graffitti in airport restrooms works, etc. And as I have said before, just ask them what they want, within reason, and be prepared to give it to them.

Be tough though. Make it clear that no work=no goodies and maybe no further summonings/attention. The latter gets their attention right quick, especially if you've worked with that entity for a while.

And as with all entities, treat them with respect. Be honest, and be prepared to follow through with either rewards, threats, or a stern lecture as required. These things apply to non-Goetic entities as well, so don't be afraid to take what you've learned with these guys and apply it elsewhere.

This post has been edited by Darkmage: Mar 7 2007, 01:02 AM

I will try to be as helpful as I can be here. I got my magick start with the Greater and Lesser Key two decades ago. I used the Keys of Solomon because I was a Christian and I wanted to make sure that I did nothing against God while I fulfilled my desire to do magick. In early childhood I had been fascinated by figures such as Jesus and Moses and I wished to do magick.

I used the Greater key and Lesser Key until I was about 22 or 23 I guess. At that time the Necronomicon suddenly unlocked for me. I found the Necronomicon much easier to use and I got much better results.

Also I became disillusioned with the Christian God and because of that for many years I abandoned Ceremonial Magick. After many years on the path of Sorcery I hear Solomon calling to me once again.

Perhaps I have learned something over the years which will give me better results than I had before.

I had very mixed results with the Goetic spirits. The only one who did everything I asked exactly like I asked was Astoroth. So I am not going to sit here and pretend to be an authority on Clavicula Salomonis Regis when in truth I often got the exact opposite results from what I wanted.

The magician is supposed to command or constrain these spirits in the names of Adonai according to the text. When I called them from the mind state of “That I was a great magician” and did not give them sacrifice the results were bad. The circle and the Triangle did not work as I had expected.

I did away with the circle and I gave sacrifice. My reasoning was that it was better to call them without protection as these are Earth roaming spirits who can visit you tomorrow if you call them and piss them off tonight. Most Ceremonial magicians may strongly disagree with this practice but I am moreso a Shaman / Sorcerer than Magician to begin with. With the sacrifice I got better results.

Now I must mention that just using the Pentacles of Solomon from the Greater Key paid off more handsomely than any Goetic evocation. The allure of the Goetia for me was always the danger of it.
There are countless other spirits which are much easier to work with. After many years of abandoning Solomon’s system <Or the system acclaimed to Solomon by whatever medieval mage who wrote it.> I find it calling me again.

I am trying to look at the work from a new perspective. I have noted that many of the Pentacles of Solomon correspond to functions of the 50 Names of Marduk. Also that a few of the Goetic spirits seem to be strange versions of a few of the 50 names. Although I do not have enough evidence at this point to form conclusions.

Most intriguing is that the 3rd Pentacle of Luna is almost identical to the Nanna Gate of the Necronomicon. There is a connection somewhere. What that connection is exactly I am unsure of at this time.

I have been planning to work the Goetia with a Necronomicon setup for some time now. As usual I think about my experiments for 6 months or so before I begin them. I am wondering how receptive the spirits would be to an Agga Mass Ssaratu as a sacrifice. Mixing Goetia and Necronomicon seems to me borderline Chaos magick. Also let me confess that Chaos magick seems to have come out a little bit after this old dog was set in his ways. So that I do not know much about it.

I believe it is extremely wise to experiment with magick. Use your head and not just follow text all the time. In this way I have learned what works and what does not.

If incense is hard to come by and it is too difficult to match intentions or the spirits domain to incense then I think anything available should do.

I do not believe that these spirits are called by very many people on any given night. So anything that you give them in the way of sacrifice they will appreciate. The sacrifice is nourishment. It gives them strength. I think if you buy anyone dinner they might be more receptive and helpful. So why not a spirit?

Back when I was using the Goetia I did not communicate with the spirits well. I could sense that they were present most of the time. I could not hear them however. Basically I asked them to do what I wanted and gave The Licence to depart. <Why in the heck is that not spelled License in the text?>

After many years of developing my astral sense I now communicate with the 50 Names of Marduk extremely well. I am thinking that if I began conjuring the Goetic spirits now that I would communicate with them much better.

In short I do not claim to be a great Ceremonial magician. I do encourage you to experiment with the system just as I am currently doing so.

Let us know what results you get.

Peace!

Wow, you have quite the background. I know we've spoken about it before, but I'm impressed. I stumbled across most of my experience by trial and error. As for the Goetic spirits themselves, I haven't summoned very many (and a couple came to ME under the old "I've got a friend who referred me to you, I've heard you need -- done," but the ones I have summoned have been mainly extremely helpful and quite friendly. I asked Bune for riches once, and he said "It's not your time yet, child. Wait..." and it was a good thing he did. Shortly thereafter everything hit the fan and Marbas came calling as I've explained elsewhere. Marbas isn't a servant, really, to me he's more of a friend. I've never called him formally but I've found I don't need to--I need him, and he comes. All he ever wanted in return was his seal made in glow-in-the-dark plastic. I had the polymer clay, so I made it. It just needs to be fired and hung around one of my stuffed lion's necks per his request. Naberius was friendly, hyperactive, and didn't do what I asked as I found out after the fact that I asked him to do something out of his jurisdiction.

Licence is British. License is American. Since the Goetia was codified long before American English became a standard dialect, this explains the British spellings throughout all the text. Mathers was British (OK, Scottish, but to us Stateside it's all the UK) and so he used standard British spellings in the text.

Thank you very much edunpanna, darkmage,

That's great advice you guys, I really appreciate you've taken the time to help me out.

I agree with you edunpanna, I've had very good results with the pentacles of jupiter and of the sun, and anytime I've tried working with any of the goetics for money or anything related to the sun, I get the exact opposite of what I asked for. I like those pentacles very much, and in fact I plan on melting down the appropriate metals to make my own, then evoke the spirits that govern them and ask them to charge them with their essence.

For me it's mostly about the danger too. Nothing like fealing alive when you feel like you're gonna die (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I've wanted to get into the necronomicon for a long time, but I can't really get the book from this country in english. It'll have to wait until I go to texas sometime this year. The pdf version doesn't seem to be complete at all, and I prefer holding a book in my hand anyway. If I feel like it's my cup of tea, I'll write out the book someday.

Thank you for the great ideas guys!

I keep their name alive (particularly the lesser known) by finding opportunities to write/speak/spread their name and in telling others (i.e., those who know nothing about them) so more people will know of them, perhaps take an interest in finding out more about/working with them, and they will not be forgotten. I believe this is of value to the spirits.