Karma, factual?? Options

Hi all,
Well this morning i was wondering about Karma...
Let me take a cetain circumstance.
If we say all that happens to a person is due to his Karma.. So lets take it to the point of mankind when no evil was done yet.... even if this only constituted of 2 or a few individuals.. Here you would say that its the pefect crime free society. But now lets put karma into play. Say a snake comes by and tempts one individual to do a sin (i am not talking about sex as i dont consider it a sin) .lets say the sin is to kick someone and mock him...
You will say that the bad guys karma will punish him in subsequent incarnations..thats ok.. But lets go back to the time when the bad guy was kicking the weak one.. The weak one previously never made a sin.. But he suffered pain and humiliation.. Here we cant say its karma....
What is it then??? suppose the weak guy dies... What explanation do you give? He was killed cause of Karma???
cant be...

One thing is that you can say that there is free will. If the Bad one kicked, the weak one could have tried to battle against.. but still here my mind cant get to give myself an explanation to the functioning of Karma

Any ideas ????

This post has been edited by mystick: Jul 6 2006, 05:21 AM

I believe that karma does exist and does come back to the one who caused something to happen but I also think that bad people create the karma and they hurt people when that person had not done anything wrong. This world hurts those who haven’t done
anything mostly because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time or because someone else decided that they would get something out of it or just because they wanted to, karma will get them eventually.

I believe that karma does exist and does come back to the one who caused something to happen but I also think that bad people create the karma and they hurt people when that person had not done anything wrong. This world hurts those who haven’t done
anything mostly because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time or because someone else decided that they would get something out of it or just because they wanted to, karma will get them eventually.

Yes, a person who is going to do something to someone else, for karma or any reason, it is because they have a diseased energy in their energetic self, and because they do not know how to act through that energetic body, they must rid it through their own body - which manifests as agression, or other things as well, self mutilation, physical illness, etc. That diseased energy is the energy of your karma, which you brought with you into this incarnation, or have accumulated since.

When someone else tries to afflict you with their karma, you do not have to accept it. Just because something is delivered upon your body, does not mean that your spirit, your energetic body, has to hold onto it. If something bad happens to you, and you decide that you are somehow less for it, or take it personally somehow, then you begin to inflict harm upon yourself energetically, and accrue karma for that self agression, as you litterally damage your energy - changing it into diseased energy, which is bad karma.

As far as not having karma... the universe is made of positive and negative energy, and all that manifests in the spiritual is made of these two energies, and the spectrums of those energies... the purpose of incarnation is to purify a portion of one side or the other - depending on wich side you think is better I suppose - over time.

Of course, the last part of that is just opinion, but if you take a look at a person's energetic body through the astral, in a black and white gradient, you can see where the dark parts are and make an educated guess as to how that karma may manifest, depending on where it is, how close to the outside, how close to chakras, etc. The darker areas are the bad karma. Unless you're trying to rid yourself of the light parts, I suppose...

(edit) haha, as far as free will goes, of course you can choose how to express these energetic laws - but without self-observation, and meditation, and getting in touch with your own energy, and taking an active approach towards excising that bad karma directly, that is the extent of your free will.

In other words, some people have less free will than others. (/edit)

peace

This post has been edited by Vagrant Dreamer: Jul 6 2006, 10:56 PM

As soon as you add another person in the picture,
there are so many variables.

Is the person who is going to be kicked and mocked,
perhaps been a kicker and a mocker in a past life?

Is the person being kicked and mocked needing some
lesson in forgiveness, or compassion, or rising above
the offenses?

How does the person getting kicked react?

Is the kicker just having a REALLY bad day, not feeling
very "evolved" and got fired from their job, their spouse
left them for the best friend, and the dog died, and they
just don't feel like being spiritual at that moment?

See what I mean? We could (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blablabla.gif) all day on the
variables.

Short and sweet, the kicker will ultimately reap karmic
debt for hurting/harming another being, and the kickee
may be working off karmic debt themselves. OR the
reverse. The Kickee is given the opportunity to choose
the RIGHT reaction, the lesson being learned, and onward
and upward they go.

How could we evolve, grow, develop and learn if there
aren't any kickers around? LOL

The Wanderer

Interesting. When one brings the topic of karma into discussion I believe one cannot help but bring its little brother along. Karmas little brother would be "reincarnation." The original question, the cause of all these replies seems to be a linear one. It assumes there has only been one universe and nothing more. Perhaps there was another just before. Perhaps the kicker was the kicked and the kicked was the kicker. Just as this reply seems to indicate. Another would be parallel universes (quantum theory) were the kicked is the kicker in another world and the kicker is the kicked in this world. The original question seems to bring the concept of karma (a buddhist/ hindu one) within the judeo-christian explanation of the universe...Genesis. The original Tripitaka (buddhist sacred texts) makes no such attempt. It does not try or claim to know the origin of the universe. What if Christ was the kicker in another world?

Maybe if someone is weak then their karma is that they should be kicked so that they learn strength. Maybe if someone is strong it is their karma to kick a weaker being and to watch them die, so that they may learn subtlety. In future they may still kick the weaker one, but maybe not so hard!!!!!

Maybe if someone is weak then their karma is that they should be kicked so that they learn strength. Maybe if someone is strong it is their karma to kick a weaker being and to watch them die, so that they may learn subtlety. In future they may still kick the weaker one, but maybe not so hard!!!!!

or else they appear to be weak in order to learn and understand compassion

Exactly.

i have to wonder if karma existed then. according to the perspective you laid out, good and bad would have to be the parents, and being a victim can become a role, just as much as being a villain is....i think. anyway...there is always a victim, karma or no karma. there is always a perpetrator. and sometimes there is a do-gooder. you sound skeptical of the whole thing yes? i wouldnt say, even if it does exist...karma is just a consequence of actions and nothing more. hehe, so i was joking with a man whose wife gives him "preemptive shin kicks" because she knows, at one point...he's going to screw up. i know karma isnt all knowing...but who knows? it could be, as powerful as everyone makes it out to be...and then, maybe Abel was just receiving one of those preemptive shin kicks. Or...if we want to expand our argument and discuss whether or not good and bad is the only currency karma lays out. lets see...its a pretty neutral judge evidently...its hard to believe black and white are the only colors in the rainbow.(yes, i KNOW they arent colors in the rainbow, im making a point, thankyou!) ..and if in fact, you get what you receive...well no one ever gives anymore, but thats not the point. all the good karma is coming from somewhere. (just let me be an optimist please!)
maybe its like mixing chemicals. you mix two chemicals and they become a completely different substance...but with the same materials...and the potential to be reverted back into its old form...okay okay. i dont mix chemicals. and i dont know anything about karma. all i know is this would be a fun debate...and im gonna take the supporting side, so i can learn more about it.

This post has been edited by valkyrie: Jun 11 2007, 04:49 PM

To me karma is just an apsect of the physical law every action leads to an equal and opposite reaction. In theory everything that you do causes motion on a molecular level. However subtle this is presant and it creates a flow of energy. This flow of energy works through us and our environment in a kind of cycle of constantly taking energy in and simotaneously releasing it. We work with only so much energy in our given enivornment and so enevitably we end up encountering the same energy again. If a person generates negative energy that will produce bad karma which will eventually catch up to them and possibly cause ill affects such as mental unrest or unstability, physical illness or an aura that repels others and many other examples too. If a person generates good karma they will find it easier to be happy and enjoy their life. The catch is that the energy we work with is like a sphere of influence and so other people's karma can affect those around them. Thus one's bad karma can cause another to suffer the ill affects. While this may seem unjust and unfair keep in mind the idea that what goes around comes around.